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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.*** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296)

DJ's left nut 11-13-2015 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11880290)
What do you think Mo would give up for Freeman?

He'd stop short of Reyes.

Beyond that, I think there are a lot of reasonable packages that could be assembled. I don't think he can part with Wong as he doesn't have a replacement 3b if Carpenter moves to SS (and moving Peralta would make an even larger hole).

I don't think he'd part with Grichuk as our best RH power source and long-term CFer, nor do I think Piscotty would be in the deal as he's a RH hitter with pretty much the exact same toolbox as Freeman, so why pay $20 million/season for Freeman and move Piscotty to get him?

So I think we're back to Adams and 2 young pitchers that aren't named Reyes. Adams, Weaver and Gonzales seems reasonable to me given the contractual liability the Cards take off Atlanta's hands.

BigRedChief 11-13-2015 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11880305)
He'd stop short of Reyes.

Beyond that, I think there are a lot of reasonable packages that could be assembled. I don't think he can part with Wong as he doesn't have a replacement 3b if Carpenter moves to SS (and moving Peralta would make an even larger hole).

I don't think he'd part with Grichuk as our best RH power source and long-term CFer, nor do I think Piscotty would be in the deal as he's a RH hitter with pretty much the exact same toolbox as Freeman, so why pay $20 million/season for Freeman and move Piscotty to get him?

So I think we're back to Adams and 2 young pitchers that aren't named Reyes. Adams, Weaver and Gonzales seems reasonable to me given the contractual liability the Cards take off Atlanta's hands.

Weaver is tearing it up in the AFL but you have to give up something to get something.

Brent Williams 11-13-2015 04:50 PM

From what I have read is that they are asking for C-mart. Not sure if they want more or not but they say that they have asked for him. Not sure how I feel about that.

DJ's left nut 11-13-2015 04:54 PM

They wanted C-Mart last year; I'd guess this is just people remembering that.

Of note, however, is that the Braves were watching Jenkins in the AFL last year and were very impressed by his performance. That was part of what led to them asking him as part of the Heyward deal.

Weaver has had an outstanding AFL thus far. If the Braves put a fair amount of weight on AFL performances, I could see him being of interest to them.

Again, just look at who they got for Simmons. They didn't get anything resembling C-Mart and there's no reason they should be expected to substantially beat that return on Freeman. Of course they'll ask for the moon (just as they asked the Mets for Harvey or DeGrom for Simmons), but what they request and what they'll get are two very, very different things.

DJ's left nut 11-13-2015 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11880317)
Weaver is tearing it up in the AFL but you have to give up something to get something.

Do you disagree with my calculus above?

What do you think Freeman's value on the open market is? Even if you think he'd snag something like $25 million in AAV, you're still looking at surplus value only in the $40 million range at that point, and I think that's high for a 1b who doesn't present a real HR threat.

Just exactly how much should that cost?

Brent Williams 11-13-2015 05:10 PM

Freeman also played at Tirner field which is a horrible hitter park if I'm not mistaken???? Bring him in where he can hit at wrigley and in Cinncy more then he might get you 20-25 home runs

DJ's left nut 11-13-2015 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Williams (Post 11880366)
Freeman also played at Tirner field which is a horrible hitter park if I'm not mistaken???? Bring him in where he can hit at wrigley and in Cinncy more then he might get you 20-25 home runs

It's not as bad as its reputation - it's not a hitters park but it's probably a fair stadium.

Everyone used that as an excuse for Heyward's poor HR numbers as well but when you do the park overlay, the dimensions are extremely similar to Busch.

He's just not a guy with a lot of loft in his swing. He hits balls hard, but he also isn't a 'wait for a pitch and pull it' guy. He's a guy that will expand his strike zone a bit and just look for a pitch to stroke somewhere.

Really, he's a lot like Holliday was 3 years ago. He'll hit some HRs, but they're liners that just get over the wall. I don't expect he'll ever be a prolific HR hitter. He'll simply be a professional run producer.

BigRedChief 11-13-2015 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11880343)
Do you disagree with my calculus above?

What do you think Freeman's value on the open market is? Even if you think he'd snag something like $25 million in AAV, you're still looking at surplus value only in the $40 million range at that point, and I think that's high for a 1b who doesn't present a real HR threat.

Just exactly how much should that cost?

No, Gonzalez/Weaver/Adams would be fine with me. They love Weaver down here but that may be just the local love for a player.

We need a solution at 1B.

Grichuk/Wong/Piscotty/Freeman/Wacha/Martinez/Reyes would be a good young core to build the next generation around.

Pasta Little Brioni 11-13-2015 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan (Post 11879273)
No, I agree with the consensus: get Heyward re-signed,

.

Oh heeeeell no. 100 million for that clown is getting highway robbed.

BigRedChief 11-16-2015 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11880377)
It's not as bad as its reputation - it's not a hitters park but it's probably a fair stadium.

Everyone used that as an excuse for Heyward's poor HR numbers as well but when you do the park overlay, the dimensions are extremely similar to Busch.

He's just not a guy with a lot of loft in his swing. He hits balls hard, but he also isn't a 'wait for a pitch and pull it' guy. He's a guy that will expand his strike zone a bit and just look for a pitch to stroke somewhere.

Really, he's a lot like Holliday was 3 years ago. He'll hit some HRs, but they're liners that just get over the wall. I don't expect he'll ever be a prolific HR hitter. He'll simply be a professional run producer.

David Schoenfield of ESPN says that the Braves want Reyes and Gonzales for Freeman.

ChiefsCountry 11-16-2015 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11888469)
David Schoenfield of ESPN says that the Braves want Reyes and Gonzales for Freeman.

Nice starting place, which means a trade will get worked out IMO. Now what players do they want instead of Reyes would be the next question.

BigRedChief 11-16-2015 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11888548)
Nice starting place, which means a trade will get worked out IMO. Now what players do they want instead of Reyes would be the next question.

Not me. Why would you trade 6 years of control of a possible Cy Young winner for Freeman? Reyeshas way more value than Freeman,

jd1020 11-16-2015 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11888601)
Not me. Why would you trade 6 years of control of a possible Cy Young winner for Freeman? Reyeshas way more value than Freeman,

Reyes hasn't pitched a single pitch in the major leagues and Freeman is a 26 year old 2 time AS 1B with a .800+ career OPS. To say Reyes has more value is just ignorant.

DJ's left nut 11-16-2015 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 11888673)
Reyes hasn't pitched a single pitch in the major leagues and Freeman is a 26 year old 2 time AS 1B with a .800+ career OPS. To say Reyes has more value is just ignorant.

Says the guy that called him Carlos Marmol 5 months ago.

I wouldn't give Reyes straight across for Freeman, not when Freeman also carries a $110 million contract and is a good, not great, player at the easiest position on the diamond to play.

jd1020 11-16-2015 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11888681)
Says the guy that called him Carlos Marmol 5 months ago.

Carlos Marmol was another guy who threw hard, striking out literally the same amount of batters per 9 in the minors, but also couldnt tell you where his pitch was going to end up.


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