Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Fran Tarkenton would like a word with you.

To be fair, the stats are from memory from NFL channel retrospectives on his career. But I'm fairly sure the ones I cited are accurate as they've stuck in my mind since I first heard them.

all of whom had the overwhelming stats that couldn't be ignored (aside from jim kelly, who had good to great numbers and led his team to four super bowls in a row)

did you have a point? are you telling me that the QBs listed wouldn't have had better resumes with a super bowl in AND their numbers? QB is a leadership position moreso than any other position, kind of like pitchers and win/loss record. it doesn't directly correlate, but it's easier for hall-of-fame voters to forgive slightly inferior numbers/seasons if a guy led his team to multiple championships. ben roethlisberger doesn't have AMAZING numbers, but he has a few super bowl wins. he's an automatic hall of famer as a result. take away his two championships, and he's borderline.

eh, they were close to the ones that I found. I have no issue with your stats, really, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

The point seems pretty obvious to me, super bowls aren't the only thing that matters, which was the statement I responded to. If Manning, Favre, et. al., never won a super bowl they'd still be hall of famers, and it wouldn't be a close call.

point taken, maybe I was being too absolute, but they're a hell of a boost. the point with ben roethlisberger stands. I'd almost guarantee he's a hall-of-famer regardless of the rest of his career, and it's all due to his two super bowl wins.

I should point out, though, that your selections are kind of outliers--they have AMAZING stats. take away 1/3 of their yards/touchdowns, and you're in a position where they'd need a super-bowl (or post-season success ala jim kelly) in order to make the hall-of-fame.

Has Jim Plunkett ever been up for the HOF? The guy won 2 rings and was SB MVP in XV if I recall. How about Tom Flores? Coached 2 SB winners and is never mentioned in the great coach debates.

Don't mean to sound like a Raiders homer but those guys have as much reason to bitch about their HOF status as anyone.

here are jim plunkett's composite stats per wiki:

TD-INT 164-198
Yards 25,882
QB Rating 67.5

despite the super-bowl wins, his numbers aren't good enough. he had a 15 year career for crying out loud, he averaged around 1700 yards per year, maybe 11 touchdowns and 13.3 interceptions. that, on some loaded raiders teams (where he won his super bowls). despite this, there are more than a few people who consider him a hall-of-fame QB. don't ask me, I'm not one of them.

Raider fans think he's worthy. He isn't.

I think what this tells us that brock is right, it's not ONLY super bowls. however, super bowls (and playoff success) can be the needed boost to get you into the HOF if you have decent to good numbers. you COULD, however, have amazing numbers (warren moon, dan marino, fran tarkenton) and make the HOF without that super bowl.

There are at least a few QBs that probably wouldn't be in the HOF without a championship on their resume. The utterly nauseating Joe Namath for example.

yep. ever seen his numbers en total? ****ing abysmal.

He's always annoyed me, because if not for that asshole, the Chiefs would have been the first AFL team to win it all in the NFL.

just because I'm that asshole, I'll one-up you. maybe if lenny dawson hadn't thrown that interception to start the second half in the first super bowl, we may have been the first AFL team to win it all against an NFL team. :p

I have a couple of Raider fan friends and they pine more for Stabler getting in the HOF than Plunkett.

Plunkett's career numbers look like shit...that's true...although I'm sure the worst numbers came from New England and San Francisco where he was a kid being thrown to the wolves with no supporting cast.