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Megatron96 03-06-2023 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16839094)
IDK about that.....did you see the 40 times this past weekend? It's not a draft loaded with speed merchants.

No, actually. I planned on it, but somehow Life got in the way and I missed the whole thing. This has been kind of a weird couple of weeks.

That's interesting though, because there's some Arrowhead Addict/Pride article out there that says there are several speed merchants the Chiefs might have a shot at in this year's draft.

Regardless, Hardman's not irreplaceable. Though personally I'd still like to keep him, but I get that he's not the hardest guy to replace.

Megatron96 03-06-2023 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16839087)
Because he's terrible at it and i highly disagree that that's why he was drafted. Their skillsets are nothing alike, and we've already seen that Skyy isn't very effective at Jet Sweeps while Hardman might be the best ive ever seen at it.

Yeah, Skyy is never going to be the go-to guy for jet-sweeps. If Hardman leaves, Toney will be that guy. Doesn't mean other guys won't do one here and there, but of the remaining WRs that definitely will be back for the 2023-2024 season, Toney's by far the best at JSs. Skyy's just not great at them.

htismaqe 03-06-2023 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16839205)
Yeah, Skyy is never going to be the go-to guy for jet-sweeps. If Hardman leaves, Toney will be that guy. Doesn't mean other guys won't do one here and there, but of the remaining WRs that definitely will be back for the 2023-2024 season, Toney's by far the best at JSs. Skyy's just not great at them.

Hardman wasn't exactly "great" at them right away. It took him some time to really perfect it. It's still too early to make broad proclamations about Moore.

Sassy Squatch 03-06-2023 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titty Meat (Post 16838982)
That's nothing sometimes I take an uber to dinner

Oh shit. That's badass.

Megatron96 03-06-2023 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 16839210)
Hardman wasn't exactly "great" at them right away. It took him some time to really perfect it. It's still too early to make broad proclamations about Moore.

It's not really about him learning how to do it, imo. I don't think he has the burst for it. I'm puzzled about that, but when you watch him on tape, he just doesn't accelerate the way you expect from a 4.4 guy. Now maybe he had a minor unreported injury issue, idk. But you watch him even in those screens or that punt return vs. CIN, and there's not much of a mid-range acceleration.

Eleazar 03-06-2023 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16839234)
It's not really about him learning how to do it, imo. I don't think he has the burst for it. I'm puzzled about that, but when you watch him on tape, he just doesn't accelerate the way you expect from a 4.4 guy. Now maybe he had a minor unreported injury issue, idk. But you watch him even in those screens or that punt return vs. CIN, and there's not much of a mid-range acceleration.

Moore seems too limited to become a big contributor on a contending team's offense, to me. He seems like a slot guy who doesn't have the size to work on the outside or be much of a blocker, who hasn't really demonstrated the ability to consistently generate separation, and has ball security issues. He certainly has quickness off the line and can be a role player, but the limitations are significant. I don't think he compares favorably to Hardman.

Eleazar 03-06-2023 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16839234)
It's not really about him learning how to do it, imo. I don't think he has the burst for it. I'm puzzled about that, but when you watch him on tape, he just doesn't accelerate the way you expect from a 4.4 guy. Now maybe he had a minor unreported injury issue, idk. But you watch him even in those screens or that punt return vs. CIN, and there's not much of a mid-range acceleration.

Hardman never seemed completely healthy this year, but his giving up his body for that first down against the Bengals will live on for a while in Chiefs memory, or it should.

Megatron96 03-06-2023 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razaele (Post 16839256)
Moore seems too limited to become a big contributor on a contending team's offense, to me. He seems like a slot guy who doesn't have the size to work on the outside or be much of a blocker, who hasn't really demonstrated the ability to consistently generate separation, and has ball security issues. He certainly has quickness off the line and can be a role player, but the limitations are significant. I don't think he compares favorably to Hardman.

Lol, Skyy was the best run-blocking WR on the team. And where does the ball security issues thing come from? Don't say punt return fumbles, please. that's a dead issue after the CIN game.

Like I said, he doesn't seem to have the burst needed to get to the corner/create separation, but as a route-runner he's already better than Hardman was maybe ever, has very good hands. He should be pretty good from the slot.

But yeah, he's not Hardman, he's not going to be a Hardman replacement. For gadget-type plays, Toney is the replacement.

TwistedChief 03-06-2023 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16839280)
Don't say punt return fumbles, please. that's a dead issue after the CIN game.

While I'd agree that his punt return fumbles are quite a bit different than ball security issues as a WR, his special teams mistakes are absolutely not a dead issue just because he had two returns against the Bengals that were solid.

Those only become a dead issue when he's done it consistently for a period of time without those mistakes, and I doubt he's getting that opportunity unless Toney gets hurt.

ToxSocks 03-06-2023 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16839287)
While I'd agree that his punt return fumbles are quite a bit different than ball security issues as a WR, his special teams mistakes are absolutely not a dead issue just because he had two returns against the Bengals that were solid.

Those only become a dead issue when he's done it consistently for a period of time without those mistakes, and I doubt he's getting that opportunity unless Toney gets hurt.

Chiefs are gonna have to find a real punt returner. Toney is obviously a legit returner, but if he ends being a a focal point of the offense someone else is gonna need to step up to the plate.

Toney needs to be kinda treated like McKinnon. Small doses but high impact. Gotta get a full season out of him. Don't want him taking any unnecessary hits returning punts.

Megatron96 03-06-2023 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16839287)
While I'd agree that his punt return fumbles are quite a bit different than ball security issues as a WR, his special teams mistakes are absolutely not a dead issue just because he had two returns against the Bengals that were solid.

Those only become a dead issue when he's done it consistently for a period of time without those mistakes, and I doubt he's getting that opportunity unless Toney gets hurt.

He's not going to be a primary PR guy. Oh, he'll be back there on occasion, especially early in the season to keep his foot in it, but he won't be the PR guy.
Which was his only weakness as far as ball security goes.

On the field as a WR, he never had any ball security issues. He has very good-great hands, and I don't think he ever fumbled a catchable pass.

ToxSocks 03-06-2023 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16839302)
I don't think he ever fumbled a catchable pass.

He had a couple catchables that he failed to bring in. But no biggie, i wouldn't hold it against him. I agree, i think he has good hands.

It's part of the reason i believe his road to snaps is through JJSS's role.

TwistedChief 03-06-2023 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16839292)
Chiefs are gonna have to find a real punt returner. Toney is obviously a legit returner, but if he ends being a a focal point of the offense someone else is gonna need to step up to the plate.

Toney needs to be kinda treated like McKinnon. Small doses but high impact. Gotta get a full season out of him. Don't want him taking any unnecessary hits returning punts.

I desperately want a real kick returner too. I absolutely hate Pachecho in that role for any number of reasons.

Megatron96 03-06-2023 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16839309)
He had a couple catchables that he failed to bring in. But no biggie, i wouldn't hold it against him. I agree, i think he has good hands.

It's part of the reason i believe his road to snaps is through JJSS's role.

Eventually, yeah that's about how I see it. He's going to take up JJSS's role from last season. He has the skillset and the hands for that stuff. Lacks the burst to get much deeper than JJSS was.

Really puzzled as to how a 4.4 guy doesn't have more burst than what he's shown so far . . .

htismaqe 03-06-2023 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16839311)
I desperatelt want a real kick returner too. I absolutely hate Pachecho in that role for any number of reasons.

I have to think Pacheco is going to see reduced KR duties this year, now that he's firmly established himself as the #1 back.


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