Originally Posted by GoChiefs

NO.

Originally Posted by donkhater

College production? I guess that's why David Klingler, Andre Ware and Danny Wuerful are all on pace for the HOF, right? No? QB's not relevent to the discussion? How about Andre Wadsworth, Courtney Brown or Jamal Reynolds? Surely their college production had them on the fast track to NFL stardom, didn't it? It didn't? Hmmmmmm

Originally Posted by htismaqe

For every Courtney Brown, there's a Reggie Hayward.

Keep backpedaling, but make sure to look behind you...you're gonna trip...

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Hali vs other 1st-round defensive ends:

Hali - 11 tackles, 1 for loss

Mario Williams - 5 tackles

Mathias Kiwanuka - 1 tackle

Kamerion Wimbley - 7 tackles, 2 for loss, 1 sack

Manny Lawson - 9 tackles, 1 for loss, 2 sacks

Originally Posted by donkhater

Oh, Darn. You got me with that zinger. How will I ever counter?

Hey, he's a solid, average player. He fills a gapping hole at RDE where this team has been blind ofr a long time. He's a hard worker and got his head on straight. The defense will be better for it. He just doesn't give this defense what it sorely needs. Especially now since the offense is struggling. Turnovers and QB pressure give teams short fields. This KC defense does not have that dimension.

Am I mistaken or have other threads been started addressing this concern about the defense? How the only way we're able to get pressure is from the blitz or if the QB is stupid enough to hold onto the ball for 6 seconds? Is Tamba immune from analysis/criticism because he's a rookie or just becuase he's better than what was there before?

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We don't have this magical pass rush you mentioned, yet we somehow managed to play better defense in 2 games this year than in almost any game the last few years.

All without this magical pass rush.

1) You're overestimating the power of a good pass rush and turnovers. We had EXACTLY what you wanted in 2003 and we all saw how well that worked.

2) You're underestimating the power of Allen and Hali.

Hali is not immune from criticism. He's immune from INVALID criticism.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

.

All without this magical pass rush.

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

No, it tells me that there probably aren't any of the first rounders that would please you. There are only 3 guys on that list with more tackles than Hali and they weren't available at 20. They were also 2 LBs and a safety - positions we are pretty solid at.

Shoot, everyone is drooling over Meriman in SD and wishing we had gotten him instead of DJ (which would have been hard to do since he wasn't on the Board when we picked). He didn't get his first sack until the 5th week of the season and had less tackles at that point than Hali.

How many people would flip out with ecstasy if we were to trade for Julius Peppers? In his first 4 games as a rookie DE (2nd pick in 2002 draft) he had 10 tackles, 3 sacks that all came against Detroit - Even Hicks could get 3 sacks against Detroit.


My point is, to be disappointed in him right now after just 2 games into his rookie season is a bit premature. Right now he's doing better than a number of Vet DEs playing today. Give the guy a chance.

I wonder, if we had a BB in 89 how many people would be complaining about DT after his first game or two.

Originally Posted by donkhater

1. The run defense is light years better than in 2003. What did we give up, 5.5 yards per carry? The back seven talent has improved tremendously as well. For every interception or sack this defense gave up 2-3 pas plays over 30 yards. Sure, they got turnovers, but they couldn't stop anyone. That was less important since the offense was so dominant.

Now that the offense is going to struggle to move the ball, the defense is going to have to get the ball back in good field position. The elite defenses do this.

2. I am not underestimating them. I wouldn't put them in the top ten defensive end combos in the league. You could nit-pick until the cows come home where they fall in the next 10 or 12 spots. They are average. They are not minced meat. But they are average and since that's light years better than the crap that's been here for a while, I guess people will give them the benefit of the doubt.