Yeah, because we all know that the Chiefs are just as talented as the Patriots, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Panthers, Falcons and Colts.

It's just the head coach that holding them back.

THREE YEARS to turn the defense around-FAIL. The 32 defense is indefensable.

Sorry; I have no choice:

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The 2006 draft was a disaster. The 2007 draft was on par with what you should expect an NFL team to do when drafting out of the #22 spot. People often forget that it's not like we had an attractive draft position. Out of that draft, we have 4 players who will probably be on the roster 5 years from now: Bowe, Tank, Turk and Herb Taylor. One, Kolby Smith, is borderline.

The 2007 draft wasn't a bad one. You know your fans are getting too choosy when they start acting like the 54th pick in the draft is a slam dunk. Drafting is as much about building quality depth as much as it is about landing a few solid starters.

I think the 2007 draft was decent. Not great, but good enough. And I think with the right coaching, Tank and Turk will both be solid contributors, which would make the draft a good one.

So you honestly expected the defense to improve after trading their best defensive player?

There are some weird expectations around here.

Herm is definitely to blame for not wanting his assistants fired, but to say Carl has absolutely nothing to do with any of that is absurd. I think you're forgetting who's the boss of who. If Carl Peterson demanded that Gun be fired after last season, there wasn't anything Herm could do about it.

I don't like Herm's gameday coaching. You're not going to have a hard time convincing me of that. But from a personnel standpoint, I think he's done a good job given the resources he was given.

Again, we are trying to pretend that Herm has dealt with the same adversity as other coaches and it's simply not true. The Jets started rebuilding three years ago. They had a top 5 pick in the draft three years ago. Since we all know it generally takes about 2-3 years to get full development out of a player, we can assume that those players like D'Brickishaw and Mangold should have peaked by now, whereas guys like Dorsey and Carr are still learning and improving.

Most importantly, the Jets loaded Mangini with free agent talent. To help Mangini, they gave him Faneca, Favre, Thomas Jones, Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace, Damion Woody, and Tony Richardson. Most of those guys were blue-chip free agents. That's called giving your head coach a fair chance to compete. The Jets decided immediately after Herm that they were going to rebuild, they immediately started playing youth over experience, and they opened their wallet up to Mangini to get players that he wanted.

OK OK OK Herm came here to fix the defense and not touch the offense. It takes good coaches three years to turn a team around. Herm couldn't even fix JUST the defense in three years.

The difference is that when most new coaches come in, they're allowed to clean house. Herm should have been allowed to blow the team up as soon as he walked in. Instead, Peterson insisted that the team limp on with a team that we knew was getting old. Rather than bring in future-bright free agents, he threw money at third contract veterans whose sole purpose was obviously to extent the limping window 1 or 2 more years. Wasting money on Ty Law and Donnie Edwards, who we knew would only play 2 or 3 years max was absolutely insane.

And so, we got two bad outcomes out of that. Because we insisted on "winning now", we ended up with low draft picks whereas most rebuilding teams get top 5 picks. And we didn't play the young guys as soon as we should. And the free agnets we brought in had a short-term purpose rather than long-term.

Again, to say that this rebuild started 3 years ago ignores the facts. This team should have been blown up years ago. It sounds like Herm wanted to do that, but Peterson resisted. And we know who was wrong on that call.

Thank you Dane! You save him so much effort in responding...

ROFL

Have a Merry Christmas, and we will miss you when Herm leaves... Thanks for visiting our message board during his tenure and we wish the both of you luck and many years of happiness...

Carl has noting to do with game decisions. I'm not forgetting anything. There is no rational way to defend this coaching staff. They have proven, along with Herm, they are pathetic.

Don't know if anybody said this specifically...But to me, here is the reason that Herm goes: If the new GM or Director of Football Operations (whatever he is called) doesn't replace Herm and we have another pathetic year...it seriously puts him behind the eight ball as far as the fans are concerned.

I apologize. My thoughts were incomplete and arguably misleading jumbled mess.

Here's what I was comparing: NFL coaches agree to a 3-year contract. They're being paid millions to get it right. Nobody likes to lose, especially the fans.

The interesting dilemma facing the Jets, is the possibility that they will miss the playoffs. Eric Mangini is in the third year of a four-year contract. It didn't help matters with questionable calls that cost the Jets (I believe) two games in the past month.

If they lose on Sunday, my guess would be -- Woody Johnson will take action and fire Mangini. It's being reported that most likey, Johnson will blow up the team and rebuilt from scratch.

It's clear in the press, the fans want him out. But, if Mangini wins, all will be forgiven.

Power of the fans.

zilla makes a lot of valid points, but the fact is that Herman ****ing Edwards is the worst coach in the league.

He didn't screw this team up with his personnel decisions.

He screwed it up with his game day decsions.

He has, IMO, made a lot of good personnel decisions.

That, however, isn't enough reason to keep him.

He needs to get the **** out before he ruins any chance that these kids have of playing up to their potential.