You talking about Herm or Gunther?

They were perfect for each other...

The reality is that Gunther is a team guy, a loyal guy. He is now free to answer things honestly.

It would be hard to sell the players on Herm's defense if he is publicly bashing it.

Herm and Gunther like each other, they just have different opinions. The defense was a little bit of both of their styles and in the end, it had no identity and it failed.

I can't argue with any of that. I grew weary of Gunther the first time around, more so when he was made HC.

Lots of empty promises, one after another. His coaching style (yelling obcentities) has gotten old as well.

But adding Herm to the mix, just made the thing worse.

Too bad Carl didn't leave a year earlier, Jared Allen may still be a Chief.

But that is all behind us now, thankfully, and there is a lot to look forward to.

Gun knows defense but he has to have premium talent to run his style of defense.

We need a DC that can teach because Gun can't apparently. Our defense was just as bad at the end of the year as it was at the start. That means the staff taught our guys nothing.

Viewing this from 1,500 miles away, I'm trying to think of the last time the Chiefs had good talent on defense to work with. Other than Jared Allen, I'm thinking the cupboard has been pretty bare since those Derrick Thomas teams.

I could give a rat's ass about Gunther either way, but I'd think you'd need more than one guy to run an effective defense. In fact, I know you need more than one guy, becuase I've seen how being one or two guys short in key positions undermines the entire defnese, even for a guy like Belichick.

I don't think the Tampa Two is obsolete ... but it does requires getting all of your pressure from the front four. That lets your CBs jump routes and attack the receivers, because they konw they have safeties behind them to make the play. If you don't have a talented front four (like we didn't last year), it's just like any zone and there's plenty of time for the QB to find holes. If Herm stays, we have no choice BUT to draft more defensive linemen. It's the only way the scheme works.

Previously, I've been willing to give Herm a fourth year, but his coaching hires are much more damning to me than his in-game coaching. He kept an aggressive d-coordinator whose heart wasn't in the Tampa Two out of loyalty, instead of bringing in a guy who drinks the Tampa Two Kool-aid and would be excited to run it. He gave Mike Solari a chance because he thought he deserved it, instead of finding a guy he knew could run his offense. The only major coaching hire he's done right is bringing in Gailey to give us some life. It just shows how organizationally screwed up we've been over the past five years, and makes the hire of an outside all the more important.

Pioli is playing this pretty good though. While going through evaluations he can at least get the coaches side of what they were asking the players to do, in their own words. He can piece that together with what he sees on film while evaluating the players.

While this goes on he realizes they sure don't work well together stabbing each other in the back on the way out. In the end that all points back to the HC. It would tell Clark that he has had him fooled all along, assuming Clark still wants Herm to return which i'm not so sure of.

Name one defense that doesn't have to have premium talent to be good

Im really ****in sick n tired of hearing this over and over and over again.
"Gun has to have probowlers to run his type of scheme blah blah blah"
Thats the most reeruned shit I've ever heard.


ON OFFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL
ON DEFENSE: YOU NEED GOOD PLAYERS TO BE SUCESSFUL

The last good player we had one defense since JA was DT, and we traded JA away, great move there. That couldnt have blown up in our faces anymore than it did as we set the record for fewest sacks in NFL history as JA outsacked the entire ****in team, had more safeties, prob had just around the amount of same neg yard plays. The only good thing about the defense last season was the development of the young secondary. THATS IT.

The reason why our offense was so good under DV AS is because he had one of the best OLines in recent memory in the NFL, 4/5 players on the starting Oline were Pro Bowlers. If you have a good Oline, you can have a good offense with a couple playmakers here and there.

Part of the lack of talent was Gunther's fault. Back in year 2 of Gun under Vermeil, Gunther listed the players he wanted and he got them - Bell, Hall, Surtain, etc.

Do you think the Cardinals defense is really good? If they hadn't made it through the wildcard game would you honestly think they had a lot of talent?

Rep.

Good point, Herm has set an example of back stabbing and throwing others under the bus.
It had to happen, once Herm started deflecting the blame, others were going to do the same. But of course, Gunther has always done it.
Accountability left with DV.

That's a fine line. Everyone in the NFL has talent. That's why "on any given sunday" holds true, unless you're the Detroit Lions. The key is to put your talent in a position to be successful, or bring in talent that will help you be successful. Gunther was unable to do either. He had five years of drafts where he was unable to develop anyone of note. In fact, one prime example is Kawika Mitchell, who blossomed once he got away from Gunther. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ become an all pro now that Gunther is gone. In terms of bringing in talent, it was famously proclaimed by Gunther himself that he personally went to Carl Peterson and gave him a list of players to go get him and Carl delivered on what he wanted. He promised that Kendrell Bell and Sammy Knight and co would turn this defense around, provide the leadership, etc. We still sucked. So to me, across the board, under two totally different head coaches, with two different assistant coaching staffs under him, he failed, and failed spectacularly...

JA didn't want to be in KC. Why is that so hard for some to understand? He didn't like it here. Period. He played his card and the Chiefs then played theirs. Get over it.

Gunther Cunningham is a disgrace. He ran HIS defense in 2004 upon his return, and it was a complete disaster. Far worse than Robinson's 2003 unit. The next year, I do think Vermeil took away some of his power, because it was more of a basic defense in 2005, and not quite as bad.

Anytime one of Gunther's defense sucks, it's always someone else's fault.