That's what I am pulling for, either one really. I just don't see it. I think in the end he will be what he likely is. Average.

Trent Green had one of the best supporting casts that a QB could have, except for a stud WR, but Gonzo and Priest made up for it. IMO, he was an avg to slightly above avg QB whose team made him better.

Cassel walked into a nightmare that any QB other than a Brees, Manning, etc. would not overcome and been successful. Having said that, I do not think Cassel has the "it" factor that makes for a great QB; Quick decision making ability, accuracy, strong arm, pocket presence, quick release, etc.

If we drafted a qb in the first round (or early second) you would find that a lot of the Planet would be turned upside down.

This is how I see it...

The resident "homers" would have a shorter leash for our kid than the "draftabulators"

I fully agree with Deez' take on how some of us have taken Dorseys slow development and see it as a very good example of how a first round quarterback would be handled by some of us.

It's a hell of a lot ****ing easier to win a Super Bowl with that kind of QB under center than with a Cassel/Brad Johnson/Trent Dilfer.

So doesn't it make sense that we should go grab a player like that? Or at least roll the dice and take a goddamn risk?

Dude, greens first year he had no line. nobody outside of gonzalez to throw to, priest couldn't run the ball until the games were so out of reach that nobody cared what the offense did. They had waters playing center shields and I don't know who else.

The next year we picked up roaf, weigmann, moved waters to lg and things started clicking as well as us picking up kennison late into either the first or second season.

If you don't think green had "it", imo you're full of "it"

To address your last point, the reason Dorsey has gotten such a leash is because he was the guy many of the "draftubators" wanted. Much like the way guys like Dejuan Morgan are given so much time. Same with Albert, who has been less than spectacular for a first-round tackle. It isn't because of ability or anything like that IMO, but is because they liked them predraft.

You are right though about a rookie QB. Those people who want a first round QB, no matter who it is, would definitely be patient with him. In fact, we'd probably see a lot of the same excuses that they blast people for making for Cassel (lack of talent around him, drops, bad OL, bad play calling, etc.) Yes, I realize that Cassel isn't a rookie and should have the same learning curve, so save that rhetoric TTC, etc.

That makes two of us that hope you are wrong! :p

Yes. Sometimes I wonder WTF was Pioli thinking in his first year with choosing Cassel and his draft. I know it was his first year and all, but hell, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board could have done a better job.

Right and he stunk, just like Cassel stunk last year. That's how the got the TrINT nickname. Even when the line improved, they gave Green 4-5 seconds sometimes and he still hung onto the ball too long. I'm saying the team improved his performance, not the other way around. Hey, I thought Green was a good player and a great guy. Nobody deserved to win a super bowl more than him.

I'm curious as to what talent you see Cassel having? Oh well we are stuck with the lil pig ****er so we'll see AGAIN this year he is not a quality NFL QB.

Yep and with Cassel you just can't develop what isn't there.

What talent do I think Cassel has at this point?

I think he's better than Mark Sanchez. I think he's better than Jimmy Clausen.

That's about it.

If we have a shot at a guy with legitimate top-line franchise QB upside, you grab him and don't look back. However, I don't think either of the guys we have passed on since Pioli has been here are that guy. Really, that's about all Cassel should be judged on, IMO.

I still contend that a couple years of Cassel and then drafting a guy like Luck, Mallet, Locker, Gabbert (assuming they grade out high and don't pull a Jevan Snead), is better than tying yourself to a guy like Mark Sanchez and trying to force him into being a franchise QB because we took him at #3 overall.

Sanchez and Cassel are both game managers, IMO, and neither offer top 8 QB upside. I think both of their upsides are about the same, middle of the NFL somewhere. You can win with either of them, but you need a ton of talent around them and a top defense. The Jets have that and the Chiefs don't, so clearly Sanchez is in the much better situation.

That was most definitely a head scratching "huh?" draft.

it would be easier if you just stated the obvious reasons, as opposed to making things up

1. people 'defend' Dorsey for the obvious ****ing reason that he was drafted to be a 4-3 DT and is now a 3-4 DE. You don't need Deep Throat to figure it out.

And he doesn't suck out loud like cassel and jackson. Again, I know, this is complex...

2. Same thing with Albert. People 'defend' him because he doesn't suck. It doesn't require a secret agenda to not bag on a player who doesn't suck.

3. Morgan...I don't know, that's meccas guy. Maybe send him an email with your complaints. I could and most everyone else could give a shit about him.

See how easy it is, when you stick to the obvious?

Shitty players get bagged on. Non-shitty players don't. (and for **** sake i defended jackson's pick and pioli's trade (the theory of it) more vociferously than most anyone here...ask hamas). And all I got for it is lying nonsense from true fan after true fan.

28 yr old 63 million dollar vet backup QBs are going to get the business when they suck ass. Rookies straight out of college are going to be treated differently.

etc

so cram your butt hurt up cassel's franchise hole