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-   -   Football Just how valuable is a QB? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=271778)

Rausch 04-05-2013 11:03 AM
The team is the car - the driver is the QB...

Direckshun 04-05-2013 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 9559064)
Here is my main problem with this offseason. A good majority of the posters who are "Geno fanatics" are legitimately saying that there is about a 5% chance that we draft him. The people who are against Geno are saying that there is a 0% chance that we draft him. Who is more realistic?

No one knows shit.
That's fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 9559064)
But I love how Geno is at 2% and Joeckel is at 50%. FWIW.....every ****ing player in this draft is at 50% because no one knows shit.
Not... entirely. It's not a complete crapshoot.

BTW, I'd say the odds we draft Geno are 5%. The odds we draft Joeckel are 75%.

But that's not the argument this thread is having.

houstonwhodat 04-05-2013 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB58 (Post 9557992)
Well you are a homer dude, we wouldn't expect any less. But I do remember the Monday night game to start the season after the Packers SB run where Rodgers beat Bree's. :thumb:

But, I think they are both great. I remember telling my son when Bree's was at Purdue I thought he would be a good pro and it would be cool if he ended up with the Chiefs cause that's where Len Dawson played College ball.

Any talk down there if/when Lombardi's great grandson is gonna get some looks at Getting promoted or OC somewhere?
Yes I am a homer no doubt.

Don't know about Lombardi, he's pretty happy in New Orleans especially now that Sean Payton is back.

I don't think it was Rodgers that beat Brees, our defense blew it as usual.

Both are great but I prefer Brees over Rodgers.

Rodgers is a little too smug for me, at least Brees is humble.

I expect the Saints to be back in the playoffs this year and hopefully Rob Ryan will get the defense worked out.

Rausch 04-05-2013 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonwhodat (Post 9559177)
Both are great but I prefer Brees over Rodgers.
/conversation...

patteeu 04-05-2013 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 9559064)
Here is my main problem with this offseason. A good majority of the posters who are "Geno fanatics" are legitimately saying that there is about a 5% chance that we draft him. The people who are against Geno are saying that there is a 0% chance that we draft him. Who is more realistic?

No one knows shit.

But I love how Geno is at 2% and Joeckel is at 50%. FWIW.....every ****ing player in this draft is at 50% because no one knows shit.
That's the unrealistic simplifying assumption that the pro-Geno guys make precisely because they don't know shit.* The important part of that sentence that people around here tend to ignore is the "unrealistic" part. By making that simplifying assumption, as baseless as it is, you get to move on to the positional value argument and at that point the QB always wins.

But it's not true that no one knows shit. The vast majority of people who do this for a living agree that Luke Joeckel rates above Geno Smith on a BPA scale. Even the GMs who are telling Mel Kiper that Geno Smith will be drafted in the top 10 think of him as more of a 20-32 ranked player, for example. But almost everyone agrees that Luke Joeckel is a top 5 player (conservatively speaking) on a BPA list.

____________
* BTW, I'd be the first to admit that I don't know shit either, but I don't discount all of the information from draft experts that we have available to us just because I don't like what they're saying. It's overwhelming.

The Franchise 04-05-2013 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9559198)
That's the unrealistic simplifying assumption that the pro-Geno guys make precisely because they don't know shit. The important part of that sentence that people around here tend to ignore is the "unrealistic" part. By making that simplifying assumption, as baseless as it is, you get to move on to the positional value argument and at that point the QB always wins.

But it's not true that no one knows shit. The vast majority of people who do this for a living agree that Luke Joeckel rates above Geno Smith on a BPA scale. Even the GMs who are telling Mel Kiper that Geno Smith will be drafted in the top 10 think of him as more of a 20-32 ranked player, for example. But almost everyone agrees that Luke Joeckel is a top 5 player (conservatively speaking) on a BPA list.
And you're basing this off of what? Mock Drafts?

Rausch 04-05-2013 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9559198)
But it's not true that no one knows shit. The vast majority of people who do this for a living agree that Luke Joeckel rates above Geno Smith on a BPA scale. Even the GMs who are telling Mel Kiper that Geno Smith will be drafted in the top 10 think of him as more of a 20-32 ranked player, for example. But almost everyone agrees that Luke Joeckel is a top 5 player (conservatively speaking) on a BPA list.
Until they play a down they are only a chance at a great player.

At any position...

The Franchise 04-05-2013 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 9559210)
Until they play a down they are only a chance at a great player.

At any position...
This.

houstonwhodat 04-05-2013 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB58 (Post 9557992)
Well you are a homer dude, we wouldn't expect any less. But I do remember the Monday night game to start the season after the Packers SB run where Rodgers beat Bree's. :thumb:

But, I think they are both great. I remember telling my son when Bree's was at Purdue I thought he would be a good pro and it would be cool if he ended up with the Chiefs cause that's where Len Dawson played College ball.

Any talk down there if/when Lombardi's great grandson is gonna get some looks at Getting promoted or OC somewhere?

I love watching Brees play.

Watch this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7bxbum-9GnI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dave Lane 04-05-2013 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 9559045)
That's not a very accurate estimation where Chase Daniel is now as an NFL player.
His arm is well rested

jd1020 04-05-2013 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by houstonwhodat (Post 9559214)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7bxbum-9GnI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I missed the part where Brees did something Rodgers doesn't.

Let me know when Brees develops and arm to rifle some of the throws Rodgers does.

Rausch 04-05-2013 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 9559232)
His arm is well rested
I'd say that's an accurate estimation...

patteeu 04-05-2013 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 9559206)
And you're basing this off of what? Mock Drafts?
Basing what? The relative positions of Joeckel and Geno on BPA lists? If so, I'm basing it on the analysis and reporting that's gone on throughout this off-season. The thing I mentioned about Kiper came from his most recent podcast. But that's just an example of the same concept that's been repeatedly reported this off-season. There are a few outliers who have claimed that Geno Smith deserves to be considered among the top players in this draft, but the majority have him significantly lower even if there is quite a bit of sentiment that he'll be over-drafted because he's a QB. Almost no one says that Joeckel deserves to be considered anything less than top 5 (and to be honest, I haven't seen anyone saying he's less than top 3).

Direckshun 04-05-2013 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 9559210)
Until they play a down they are only a chance at a great player.

At any position...
Not all chances are created equal.

patteeu 04-05-2013 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 9559210)
Until they play a down they are only a chance at a great player.

At any position...
That doesn't make them all equal draft prospects. I'm not even sure why you bothered to type that.


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