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BryanBusby 11-26-2015 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11904982)
IMO, KC will be looking at another 3-4 NT/DE somewhere in the 1st 3 rounds, because of the fear ( Honestly, God forbid) that Dontari could reinjure his back. The defense has looked average because of his injury. Though the Denver game showed he could be finally healthy now. Ultimately, Devito is on his last legs and the Chiefs need another versatile DL to help the DBs too, because we can get beat deep due to the lack of speed at the CB position.

What the **** for? They've already got the next NT; just need to extend.

Tribal Warfare 11-27-2015 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby (Post 11908389)
What the **** for? They've already got the next NT; just need to extend.

Howard for the most part is above average but not elite, getting an elite NT is a necessity for a dominant 3-4 Defense. Also, you need more than one hence the versatile remark like Ngata in his prime.

Saccopoo 11-27-2015 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11908409)
Howard for the most part is above average but not elite, getting an elite NT is a necessity for a dominant 3-4 Defense. Also, you need more than one hence the versatile remark like Ngata in his prime.

So you want them to draft an "elite" NT prospect with Howard, Poe and Nunez-Roches on the roster?

Thankfully, I don't think that there is an "elite" NT prospect in this draft. And if there were, the Chiefs won't be picking high enough to secure such a talent.

Howard has been pretty good this season. In fact, he's looked better than Poe in terms of holding and pushing the double gaps in the base 34's. Better run defender, enough so that I'd rather see Poe as the five tech and Howard as the Zero NT.

Nunez-Roches came out as a RS Junior after a very strong year. If he stayed and put together a similar year his senior year, he most likely would have been selected much higher than the sixth round. Pretty good, savvy pick by Dorsey actually considering that DeVito was coming off an achilles injury and his effectiveness going forward was pretty much in doubt at the time of the draft.

A guy like Kaufusi would be just like David Irving this past summer/preseason - a long, athletic guy who would provide a different look on passing downs from the DE position. (And I think that Kaufusi is a better prospect than Irving was at the same stage.)

kccrow 11-27-2015 01:53 PM

I don't think Ifedi has the foot speed to stay outside. I do really like him as a guard prospect though. After that, I can't really say I don't like a pick. I think Hackeberg would test well enough in offseason programs that he won't be there late in round 2. He's really got a shit supporting cast and NFL teams will take that into account to some extent. If he's there, yeah I'd run up to the podium. He's got the talent to be much higher ranked but a bunch of bozos for lineman and receivers. What a shame.

Saccopoo 11-27-2015 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 11908810)
I don't think Ifedi has the foot speed to stay outside. I do really like him as a guard prospect though. After that, I can't really say I don't like a pick. I think Hackeberg would test well enough in offseason programs that he won't be there late in round 2. He's really got a shit supporting cast and NFL teams will take that into account to some extent. If he's there, yeah I'd run up to the podium. He's got the talent to be much higher ranked but a bunch of bozos for lineman and receivers. What a shame.

System didn't fit him either. I don't see him going back and it will depend on the pro day/combine/individual workouts where he goes. Really depends on what the draft falls like. He's got first round talent, but he's stalled in a lot of areas and will need to be coached back up into his natural gifts.

And, as you said, Hogan should be a viable canidate in the second if the other four/five go early. I like Hogan. He's a pretty athletic guy with a really nice arm. Not overly accurate at times, but I think that's a correctable flaw in his motion. Otherwise, he's a really good fit for Reid's system.

Any of these guys are going to need one year at least and the Chiefs will have that luxury next year.

While I agree that Ifedi doesn't have the quickest of feet, his foot work is solid and he's exceptional in using his hands and length and upper body strength in redirecting guys. He's fundamentally sound if not a master tactician like Mathews. I think he could play on the edge quite easily due to his length, which would be wasted on the interior. Watching the A&M games, he's impressed me with his ability to move speed guys out and around while staying engaged on the interior. I think he's easily good enough to be a top RT.

Tribal Warfare 11-29-2015 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 11908516)
So you want them to draft an "elite" NT prospect with Howard, Poe and Nunez-Roches on the roster?

Thankfully, I don't think that there is an "elite" NT prospect in this draft. And if there were, the Chiefs won't be picking high enough to secure such a talent.

Howard has been pretty good this season. In fact, he's looked better than Poe in terms of holding and pushing the double gaps in the base 34's. Better run defender, enough so that I'd rather see Poe as the five tech and Howard as the Zero NT.
)

When Poe was healthy was elite( last year's pass rush), Howard is not. When the Defense finally came around season when Poe himself was giving more effort because he was more confident in his injury situation. if Poe is healthy then re-sign him if not then you got to look elsewhere and Billings is a straight up beast BTW.

Speaking of Elite prospects Poe's production wasn't in no means elite, he was drafted on his measurables/potential.

Saccopoo 11-29-2015 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11911423)
When Poe was healthy was elite( last year's pass rush), Howard is not. When the Defense finally came around season when Poe himself was giving more effort because he was more confident in his injury situation. if Poe is healthy then re-sign him if not then you got to look elsewhere and Billings is a straight up beast BTW.

Speaking of Elite prospects Poe's production wasn't in no means elite, he was drafted on his measurables/potential.

Billings is a nice player. I think he'll be viewed more as a 43 DT than a NT in a 34 but he's shown the strength and anchor to be effective in either.

That being said, I seriously doubt that the Chiefs are going to be looking at the DT spot early unless they aren't able to resign Howard for something in the Allen Bailey ballpark of numbers.

It's not like at the OLB or ILB position, where no one outside the starters have distinguished themselves. The Chiefs have pretty solid and interchangable DT/DE's on the roster in Poe, Bailey, Howard, DeVito and Nunez-Roches (who actually has looked pretty solid in his snaps this year). Even Nick Williams has played the run well in limited snaps. DeVito looks like he's back into form after the achilles as well.

I just don't see the DT position being a Round 1 priority versus other positions, though Dorsey has shown that he'll draft BPA as it relates to other players on the team and their expiring contracts. (Fisher/Albert; Ford/Houston)

RT/OL, CB, QB, WR look to be the priority positions going into the 2016 Draft IMO.

Tribal Warfare 11-29-2015 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 11911554)
Billings is a nice player. I think he'll be viewed more as a 43 DT than a NT in a 34 but he's shown the strength and anchor to be effective in either.

That being said, I seriously doubt that the Chiefs are going to be looking at the DT spot early unless they aren't able to resign Howard for something in the Allen Bailey ballpark of numbers.

It's not like at the OLB or ILB position, where no one outside the starters have distinguished themselves. The Chiefs have pretty solid and interchangable DT/DE's on the roster in Poe, Bailey, Howard, DeVito and Nunez-Roches (who actually has looked pretty solid in his snaps this year). Even Nick Williams has played the run well in limited snaps. DeVito looks like he's back into form after the achilles as well.

I just don't see the DT position being a Round 1 priority versus other positions, though Dorsey has shown that he'll draft BPA as it relates to other players on the team and their expiring contracts. (Fisher/Albert; Ford/Houston)

RT/OL, CB, QB, WR look to be the priority positions going into the 2016 Draft IMO.

Poe and the defense got owned because of the lack of pressure up the middle and occupying the blockers (Goddamnit) to allow the OLBs to do their Job.The NT position is a definite need if Poe isn't ever the same.

Saccopoo 11-29-2015 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11914700)
Poe and the defense got owned because of the lack of pressure up the middle and occupying the blockers (Goddamnit) to allow the OLBs to do their Job.The NT position is a definite need if Poe isn't ever the same.

Not having Bailey hurt more than anything against the Bills and has really been key on Houston's lessening of sack numbers this season, but they most certainly will have to get a full medical on Poe.

He's getting the reps now, so maybe it's more of a conditioning thing at this point. I'm not sure.

duncan_idaho 12-01-2015 04:40 PM

Sacc- would appreciate your thoughts on Matt Wells in the coaching search thread in the lounge.

You can splooge on Chuckie Keaton all you want.:D

Tribal Warfare 12-02-2015 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 11914979)
Not having Bailey hurt more than anything against the Bills and has really been key on Houston's lessening of sack numbers this season, but they most certainly will have to get a full medical on Poe.

He's getting the reps now, so maybe it's more of a conditioning thing at this point. I'm not sure.

My fear is that Poe will always have shooting pains from his back to his legs, and can't use his strength and explosion off the snap because of this affliction. If he can truly rehab his back this offseason and comes back to form then that'll be awesome.

Since we are in the dark concerning Poe's health, It's my opinion the Chiefs do need a NT if Dontari doesn't ever recover.

O.city 12-31-2015 07:36 PM

Ragland is a stud. If he's therr I'd be interested

GloucesterChief 01-02-2016 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11921121)
My fear is that Poe will always have shooting pains from his back to his legs, and can't use his strength and explosion off the snap because of this affliction. If he can truly rehab his back this offseason and comes back to form then that'll be awesome.

Since we are in the dark concerning Poe's health, It's my opinion the Chiefs do need a NT if Dontari doesn't ever recover.

If there is issues with Poe, I think Destiny Vaeao from Wazzu would be a good later round pick. I think he could play NT or DE. He has experience in a 3-4 already.

Also, with DAT I think we should take a late round flyer on Braxton Miller if he is available and use him like Antwan Randle - El as an all around gadget player/returner.

Saccopoo 01-02-2016 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief (Post 11990739)
If there is issues with Poe, I think Destiny Vaeao from Wazzu would be a good later round pick. I think he could play NT or DE. He has experience in a 3-4 already.

Also, with DAT I think we should take a late round flyer on Braxton Miller if he is available and use him like Antwan Randle - El as an all around gadget player/returner.

I'm not a huge fan of picking a gadget player as specifically a gadget player. There are a lot of guys who actually player their respective positions very well who also can function as a kick/punt returner. Canady, the CB from Virginia, and Sharp, the receiver from Utah State, are both excellent at their position while leading their conferences in punt return yardage.

I'd rather have a guy who had the potential of being at least a #3 guy at their position with the possibility of moving up to the #2 guy while also working in at KR/PR versus a guy who will be nothing more than the quirky gadget guy without a real position.

GloucesterChief 01-02-2016 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 11990789)
I'm not a huge fan of picking a gadget player as specifically a gadget player. There are a lot of guys who actually player their respective positions very well who also can function as a kick/punt returner. Canady, the CB from Virginia, and Sharp, the receiver from Utah State, are both excellent at their position while leading their conferences in punt return yardage.

I'd rather have a guy who had the potential of being at least a #3 guy at their position with the possibility of moving up to the #2 guy while also working in at KR/PR versus a guy who will be nothing more than the quirky gadget guy without a real position.

Miller is still learning the WR position. You can line him up in the backfield as a half back and since he was a QB in college he can throw decently well. I see him as more as Randle-El than DAT. A WR that you can lineup anywhere and run gadget and trick plays through.

Not a top four rd pick but worth a 5th, 6th, 7th round flyer on.


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