It wasn't just Curry that suffered the 'positional value' argument.

if they get a fair trade I guess they should go for it
ror would be lost

Meh. I'll live.

The only guys I saw being suggested commonly and panned were Curry and LT prospects. Drafting a LT and moving Albert or drafting a RT either way you are spending two high 1sts on your tackles and that means you are going to have to let one of them walk when their contract expires if they play to what everyone's expectations are.

But that's my exact point. Everyone has suddenly got a hard on for Mays and he plays a position that is actually less relevant than the ILB spot, but it's okay to get all hot and bothered about him, but a guy who is every bit as athletic and fierce and even more productive to this point at the "quarterback" position of the defense is not viable? Bullshit.

Spikes put up a crazy season last year. And the year before. The dude murders people on the field, has safety level athleticism in a linebacker body and has football instincts.

I loved Curry coming out, but I understood the arguments about him and DJ being about the same player. (Although, Curry did things better than DJ in terms of taking on blockers, shedding blocks, etc. at the same point of their careers.) And then picking up Vrabel, whose put DJ on the practice squad, makes the strong side backer position even more irrelevant. However, Spikes is a pure ILB. A combination of Laurunaitis and Maualuga, but with more athleticism. And we need a Mike ILB. In the worst way.

And the same could be said about Gresham, whose got all the tools to be the best TE prospect ever. A bigger, faster, better blocking Tony Gonzalez.

In my opinion, there are a couple of "generational" type players in this draft, at positions that are normally regarded as positions that don't value out as a top 5 selection. Berry, Mays, Spikes, Gresham, Trent Williams (although I think you can get a guy very close to Williams in Utah's Zane Beadles in the second round) all look to be those type of guys. Then you add in the regular top 5 positional talent guys like Bradford, Okung, Suh, Gerald McCoy, and Dunlap, all of which would have been the first guy selected in this past draft, and you've got a hell of a draft day situation.

Which is why for now I'm on the Safety bandwagon. Unless Kindle has a huge year I don't see a lot of fit for our 3-4 besides Cody who is a huge risk going as high as we will be picking(doesn't help that I think Boo Robinson will end up being the better prospect and could possibly be available in the 2nd or 3rd round)and the WR's aren't elite IMO. The problem with going Safety is while we could use an upgrade we also need so many other positions. NT, OLine, WR, OLB(pass rush), will need a replacement for LJ if Charles isn't seen as an every down back.

There's a ****ing shocker Mecca Jr., even though we have competent, and possibly, with proper coaching, good to very good safeties on the roster. But let's focus on that position as need because we put up a YouTube highlight reel of Mays.

Not that we don't need more talent at other positions...

But let's pick a safety because we don't pick RT's and LB's with a first round pick.

I mean, shit. Pollard, Page, Morgan, Brown and McGraw are all decent. But yet we're happy to piss away our first rounder on Mays or Berry while our qb continues to get ****ing killed because we can't get a RT. Or we continually get running backs breaking out for 30+ yard carries because Dino Hackett was the last decent MLB that the Chiefs have had. Oh, but don't draft those positions because they don't have any ****ing value in the top ten!

dez bryant is a bad ass

Ok here is how I see the Chiefs draft targets next year....

QB
1. The midget winner Todd Reesing
2. Sam Bradford
3. That guy from Ole Miss who is from Texas who wears cowboy boots

RB
1. White Running back from central Ks
2. Jahvid Best
3. Evan Royster

WR
1. Dezmon "I can't read" Briscoe
2. Dez Bryant
3. Arrelious Benn

SS
1. The guy that bangs Tyrel Reed's sister
2. Taylor Mays
3. Eric Berry

TE
1. Kansas' old QB that isn't good enough to play QB so he has to catch the ball now
2. Jermaine Gresham
3. Rob Gronkowski

I am definitely not biased.

Suh is a good player but will be a 5-tech. Hopefully he goes to a good coached team. He wasn't that good when Callahan was the coach.

The Chiefs have alot of first round picks on the defense if Cody isn't aviable they should go for a game changer on offense.

We have DJ and the surprise of camp Corey Mays at LB right now they are just as decent as our safeties. They may not set the world on fire but it in no way means we should spend a top 10 pick on a ILB. That could change if Mays completely disappears in the regular season or if DJ doesn't respond to being demoted like Bowe did.

We have picks later in the draft that can help with the Oline we don't have to have two tackles that were taken in the top 15. We can easily get a RT in the 2nd or later, same goes for the other line positions if we haven't gotten some serious help from FA already.

NT again can be filled by a less risky player later in the draft. Second or possibly 3rd round, and this is the position that will make the LBers better.

If Kindle has a huge year, I could see going with him to get us a pass rusher but as it stands why not go for one of, if not the top 2 players in the draft. Berry is a game changer and Mays has the potential to be regarded as one of the best at what he does. Spikes is good but like Tebow is a product of the Florida hype machine not a top 10 talent in this draft.

She is hot

Oh and I would use a 2nd on Briscoe if he enters the draft.

Todd's going to be our Terrific Tom that we get in the 6th and ends up being our savior.

As long as you are happy with Demarrio then I guess we're good. And when has a safety been a "game changer?"

Look, I've got no problem with either Mays or Berry. Both are studs. But they are playing a position that is even less important than RT or MLB. That's a fact. And for you to devalue the OL or LB to the second round and beyond, but still hold up the SS position as a viable top five pick is bullshit.

And if we didn't already have competent safeties (regardless of the recent GoChiefs anti-Pollard campaign), I'd be right there with you on Mays or Berry. But it's obvious that this team needs help at other positions besides safety with their first pick. Pollard, Page and Morgan are all young and have talent. They could benefit from better coaching, but it's not like they are completely devoid.

You can't tell me that the LB spot (MLB or ROLB), RT/RG/C or TE spots don't need more immediate help than the safety position.

All joking aside, I think Briscoe is going to be way to slow to warrant a 2nd round pick. He's going to run like a 4.73 at the combine and he'll slip to 4th I would think.

And GoChiefs will write for SI, and Mecca will convert to Christianity after Tim Tebow shows him the light, and Skip will date Heidi Klume, and South Carolina BBQ will taste good, and Reaper 16 will join AA, and R. Lee Ermey will come out of the closet, and SHTSPRAYER will start a hippie commune, and men will watch the Lifetime Network with their wives, and STYX will finally be hailed as a "cool" band.

Your saying Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu aren't game changers?

Yes we need help on the line and LB and if Kindle shows something he will be who I want for ROLB but for now he really hasn't shown enough. I'd also say we need another WR before a TE. We could use a better TE but you don't need a All Pro there to have a high powered offense and you damn sure don't need to spend a top 10 pick on one.

The positions you mentioned can all be filled in rounds outside of the first. Yes, Normally you don't go Safety in the first either, but when you have rare talent you make exceptions like you said these guys are studs(and to let you know I don't really like what we currently have at safety either). You don't see many Centers go in the first round this past draft there were 2 that did and 3 that all realistically could have gone in the first.

That might not be the best comparison, but the point is when there are extremely good prospects you like you take them when they are on the board. While Spikes might be good, if we were going to take a ILB that high don't you think we would have taken Curry?

So Delexus would you rather draft a safety than Terrance Cody? What Pioli says is he doesn't nessecarily get the best player talent wise but the best player who fits the scheme. I think Cody would be the best pick for the Chiefs.

As a KU fan, I hope not....but I agree that he could put up some bad numbers and slip.

That is a tough one since we need a NT in the worst way. I honestly don't think Cody is worth going that high. If he gets a $40 mill deal he is going to get even lazier than he is and that is a problem with a already 365 pound player. If the draft was tomorrow and none of these guys got to play this year, I would probably go Safety and then target Boo Robinson or a Dan Williams in the 2nd/3rd.

After the season Safety, WR, Kindle, or Cody could be my top pick depending on performances and reports on work ethic (Cody)

the problem with targeting robinson is that all of the other 3-4 teams will want him also

the days of 3-4 steals are gone with the exception on maybe linebackers

Curry was a strong side outside linebacker who was projected into the middle at the pro level. Spikes is a pure Mike backer that is the same level at his position as Mays and Berry, and probably has done more on the field than either. The guy is a killing machine that is that once in a generation type of guy. Think of Laurinaitis' instincts, Rey's brutality, and the athletic ability of a Pat Willis - maybe more. Same thing could be said of Jermaine Gresham at tight end. Absolute freak of nature that is like a Adrian Peterson for his position - simply bigger and faster than any other TE out there. You could say the same thing about Trent Williams at RT, who looks to be the best pure RT since Tait.

And Dunlap is just over-the-top freakish physically. He makes Mays look like the Pillsbury dough boy in comparison. Plus there are really good rush ends/34 ROLB in Kindle and Selvie.

Both Mays and Berry look to be Woodson/Reed clones. But we have more immediate needs at a multitude of position other than safety, and with a lot of guys in this next draft that have the potential to be game changers at positions we desperately need, I don't see where using that pick on a safety is the best option.

Thats a valid point, but I think he'll at least be like Ron Brace was and available in the early 2nd if not later. Of course you never know so there is that risk since there are more teams running the 3-4 and there are only so many NT's. It just comes down to do you think Cody will be the BA you need in the middle or will he eat himself out of the league? From everything I've read Cody has a terrible work ethic.

well, Raji was supposed to the best nt in this last draft and he is a de now
I think it's hard to project rookie nose tackles and that position can be addressed through free agency

If I had my way they would draft ray lewis...I mean Brandon Spikes

Why bring up Dunlap? He is a beast of a 4-3 DE but that doesn't really do much for us. I really wanted him until we moved to 3-4 now he's someone we will just have to watch tear it up for another team.

Spikes would be much more of a priority if we were running a 4-3. Could we use a player like him? Absolutely, but I don't think he is better than the safeties coming out. Most have them as the top players on the big board. I do like Spikes as a prospect but don't see him going that high and think he is hyped up a bit being from Florida and all.

I don't think you can pay a RT $40-50 million when Albert will want a higher deal when his contract is up.

I also did mention that I'll be watching Kindle this year and he could eventually become my pick. Selvie is late first early 2nd.

Give him some time he'll be the starting NT. He's still the backup there and would easily be starting for us. Pickett at least has the size to play NT and since DLine is that position that takes time to adjust to he's getting the nod over Raji. I was kind of surprised they are playing him as a 5-tech at all though.

So, if you can get guys like Selvie and Beadles with our second rounders, making Kindle or Williams unnecessary, a guy like Pawelek (who I think would be an absolute steal in the late 2nd/early 3rd) with our third rounder, which would wash out Spikes, and we don't need Dunlap because people think it would be a waste in a 3-4 (hypothetically), Cody has too much bust potential, and since we signed Cassel to a long term we don't have a need for Bradford/McCoy/Snead/Tebow, who does that leave us with?

Mays, Berry, Gresham, and Suh is what I'm coming up with.

You could also add a WR, that would really depend on where we end up picking. Cody and Kindle could be on there after the season as well and then you could do something different in the second. I've only been going off of what I've seen from the players already and where I think we will be drafting(top 5ish). Throw in the fact that everything can change during the course of the season and there could be a chance to trade down this year depending on where our pick lands and this could make for a fun draft.

Oh and unless we end up picking around the 18+ range I personally wouldn't have Gresham on the list. I don't think TE is going to be as important as it has been in the past with Haley.

I like Brandon Spikes and all but I don't see him as a can't miss type..I actually think he may end up playing as an outside backer at the next level.

Also the game against Bama hurt his stock a bit against a team with NFL size and quality line he was basically taken out of the game and mauled. He did not look good in that game at all.

Also Gresham I don't think goes down as the most athletic TE drafted or any of that...that title goes to the guy down in Dallas named Martellus Bennett I was a huge fan of his and think that guy is going to be a superstar. That to me is the most naturally gifted TE to be in a draft.

When has a Safety been a game changer? Ummm, there are two in the league right now. Polamalu and Reed. Before that Ronnie Lott and as much as I hate to say it, you could argue Atwater. The list goes on if you would like.

MLB, or more accurately ILB in the 3-4 is not that important of a position. If there is a stud OLB prospect that can be expected to put pressure on the QB, then by all means I am for that. But TE in the top ten is nuts.

We'll see how he looks this year, but IMO, the NFL is way to big for Spikes.

This is just funny.

I think at this point the biggest natural thing Spikes is lacking is speed. I dont know if he has the speed to play MLB in the NFL and be able to run sideline to sideline.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bZKTaC9-jDQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bZKTaC9-jDQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Just thought this was worth a look. Its nice seeing Knowshit get knocked out.

Now wait a second...what's wrong with Styx?

reed and polamalu are on two of the best defenses in the league
both have excellent d-lines and linebackers
put them on a bad team and they aren't nearly as effective

That's bullshit. They won't suddenly lose the ability to tackle or nail a bastard across the middle.

Look at what Bob Sanders did for Indy's terrible defense their SB year.

my only point was this and I don't think I made it clear
those two teams always have the best rush defense
and always have a good pass russ
I'm sure there isn't a way to prove this statistically but I bet they see more chances for interceptions than teams that get run on all day long
I love ed reed and think he is the best safety in the game
BUT
I don't think he would have tons of picks in denver or kc

Jarrad Page had four interceptions last year.

Jared Allen was surrounded by shit.

Good players make plays.

Wrong. You are either a great, good or bad player. Putting a great player on a bad team does not magically make them worthless. Great rationale though:rolleyes:

Way to fail reading his post. He said they wouldn't be as effective, not that they would be worthless. Which is a valid point.

Worthless and "not nearly as effective" are 2 different things.

His point is.....if we had a front 7 that could wreck havoc in the backfield like PIT or BAL can, force the QB to rush his throws, make bad decisions, move around in the pocket not being able to plant his feet and make a good throw, hell yes that GREATLY can help a secondary. Might even make our safeties look good.

No, it wouldn't.

Pollard would still **** up.

He wouldn't magically become a ballhawk or a good tackler.

He'd still be a worthless, overhyped player who misses tackles and compiles a whopping one pass defensed in 16 games.

ROFL again mecca with the big ol WTF post. what the **** has that got to do with anything?

I don't think that sentiment is entirely off-base. Pro football is not the kind of game where a guy can carry an entire unit on his own. The better the roster around him, the more likely it is that a good player will be free to make an impact, and become a great one.

The only people that "hype" Pollard are Chiefs fans.

I think that so many Chiefs fans have become so used to a sub-par football team that they just don't know the difference between an adequate player and even an average player.

Pollard sucks ass. If Pioli can get a 6th rounder for the guy, get it.

They need all the ammo they can get to improve this team's talent.

That's fine.

But there are guys that are football players and there are guys that play football.

Pollard (and most of the Chiefs squad) unfortunately fall into the latter category (hence 3 winning seasons in the past decade).

It's a valid point, but if we were able to get one of the safeties and address the NT position we all the sudden have an outstanding secondary and a potential great DLine. That DLine will make our LBers better, we'd still need a few more pieces but thats the makings of a great defense for when we are contending.

I think he's the black Tyler Thigpen. Great attitude, plays hard, makes a few plays, etc.

He also looks terrific in tights. The closet homosexuals of Chiefsplanet subconsciously love his glutes.

Bullshit. MLB is a more important position than safety. That's a fact.

I have no problem in drafting any position that is a position of need for the team, whether it be ROLB, LOT, QB, S, MLB, TE, ROT or whathaveyou. But I think it's hypocritical to say it's okay to draft a safety with the first pick because all of a sudden there is this one guy there that people might like, but it's not okay to draft other position because historically they haven't gone in the top five. Safety is most certainly one of those positions, so don't get all high and mighty about other positions in terms of draft day positional value when you are telling me that it's okay to draft a fuggin' safety.

So, if we are looking at the state of the current roster, and it's okay to draft a safety with a top five pick, then I want Trent Williams, because I'm sick of quarterbacks getting killed on this team and having our running backs trying to fit through mouse holes. The entire right side of the line, including the center, is a goddamn disaster and is certainly more important than the safety position.

That being said, I think that you can get three top flight guys for positions of need for the Chiefs with their two second and one third round picks in next years draft in RT, MLB and TE with Zane Beadles, Joe Pawelek and Dennis Pitta which would leave the #1 for that freak play maker - a guy like Dunlap (and I understand that he's an athletic guy that would be more of a 43 end, but the dude is 6'6", 295 lb. and strong as an ox - if you couldn't use a guy like that, even in a 34, you aren't trying very hard), Suh (Cody looks to be just a big fat guy with the label as being a slacker, which is not a good sign for a 380 lb. guy, whereas Suh is simply a beast - at least when I've seen him play, and they say he's able to play anywhere on the line and looks like he could carry 30 more lbs. and you wouldn't even notice it on him), or Kindle (if he can continue his level of play without having the benefit of teams doubling up on Orakpo, his numbers and size say he should be a top ten talent).

Several players being shopped
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel


"The Green Bay Packers have been shopping several players heading into the deadline for mandatory roster cuts Saturday.

Several league personnel sources said that among the players the Packers have been shopping are tackle Tony Moll and safeties Charlie Peprah and Aaron Rouse. All three would be candidates to be released when the Packers have to trim their roster from 75 to 53.

It's not unusual for the Packers to make calls around the league to see if there would be interest in making a trade. Their hope would be that a team low on the waiver priority list would want one of the players they're offering and be willing to trade a draft pick to cut in front of the other teams.

At least two linemen are being shopped by the Packers and presumably one of the others is center Scott Wells, who lost a training camp competition with Jason Spitz for a starting spot. However, none of the scouts specifically identified Wells as trade bait.

If Moll is on the block, it indicates that the Packers are considering releasing him and want to see if they can get compensation instead. Of the backup linemen, Wells has the most trade value, but the Packers would have to get a strong offer for him because their only other option now to back up Spitz is rookie free agent Evan Deitrich-Smith."

I should've been more clear. I wasn't talking about Pollard, I was talking about guys like Ed Reed. I don't think he'd be the same player on the Chiefs circa 2002-2008 as he was/is with Baltimore. He'd still be good, because he is good, but I don't think he'd have been a sportscenter highlight reel playing under Robinson or Gunther, not if a whole lot of other players didn't come with him.

Which isn't any kind of comment on Pollard. We knew what he was when he was drafted, which is a hitter who hasn't shown any ability to cover. Fortunately this defense fits his skillset more than the cover-2. But I don't think he'll ever be John Lynch. Which is an ironic comparison to make. I suppose I should've said "I don't think he'll ever be Troy Polamalu."

Gunther probably would have moved Ed Reed to corner.

He might well have.

Brilliant!:BLVD:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eVO93amUv7Y&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eVO93amUv7Y&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Positional value factors in so much but if you really feel a guy is it for his position that becomes different.

We're talking about 2 of the best safety prospects to come down the pipe.

Mecca, do you know anything about the GB boys that are about to get cut (Oline and S) from the above article?

Guys like Peprah and Rouse are basically career backup special teamer types, Wells is solid and the OT I've never seen.

And wasn't Curry being hyped in the same manner? I remember Casserly talking about him being the best LB prospect he's seen in a decade, his combine numbers were off the chart, etc., but if anyone mentioned his name around here the torches and pitchforks got pulled out by the "positional value" lynch mob.

thx:clap:

True, worthless is an overstatement on my part. My point is take Reed or Polamalu and put them on the Chiefs and they are still in the Pro-Bowl year in, year out. The guys are playmakers. The same is being said for Mays and Berry.

As far as fail goes, I will leave that to the glasses and shirt in your avatar.:D

I would LOVE to have Scott Wells.

I personally thought Curry was overhyped as a prospect, I don't even think he's the best LB prospect of the last 2 years.

Let me guess. Keith Rivers of USC was?

I would probably go with Jerod Mayo.

I think Rivers and Mayo were both better prospects....

Curry was a solid player that was fortunate enough to come out in a draft that was very weak at the top. He should be a good player, but I still don't think he's any kind of historically-good talent.

We all have our favorites, and I don't have a problem with either Mays or Berry, because I think that they both have the potential to be Pro Bowl level guys by midway through their rookie seasons, but I'm just telling you that with the insights of guys who've been in the league a long time and whose business it was to judge talent of football players, Curry was getting a lot of accolades and admiration about being one of the best linebackers to come out in recent memory. But yet on this board, there was the "positional value" set that was ready to kick in the balls of anyone who mentioned Curry. And now, it's those same "positional value" guys who are all up on May's jock. A freakin' safety. That is, by it's very definition, hypocrisy.

I would love to have a legit center who could snap the ball and get his head up before he was blasted back 3 yrds.

I thought Curry got overhyped because everyone considered the top of the draft weak so it benefited him.

There is almost always a very very well thought of LB prospect in each draft they usually go somewhere in the 10 range.

Pat Willis was better IMO, and there were people "in the know" "in the business of football" who were saying that Curry was better, bigger, faster version of Willis. Regardless, it's the point of people screaming "positional value" about a strong side backer, but then those same people are now saying it's okay to use a top five pick on a strong safety. I mean, Jesus H. Stop Dancing Christ on a stick! A mother trucking strong safety! And they bitched about a linebacker?!

isnt it "Jesus H. TAP dancing christ on a stick?":p

I wouldn't mind it one bit if the Chiefs drafted O'Dowd with one of their second round picks next year - if he lasts that long.

It's because those safeties are rare, you see LB's like Curry a lot more often.

berry is a stud
mays is a freak with his size
I would take either one but it's not gonna happen
they wont take anyone I like

Not to Jake it's not.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P1KZKZs-2YM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P1KZKZs-2YM&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

i've got an issue and for some reason cant see vids, sorry, below is what i get when a video is on a post. anyone know what i can do to fix it?

That's it; I officially give up on you.