Dude, I'm sorry but when 1/3 of your teams' 27 historical blowouts come under one coach in 2 1/2 seasons then something is wrong with the coaching.

9 blowouts under Haley. It took Haley 2 1/2 seasons to do what it took other teams 23 years respectively to do the same. And we had some pretty shitty teams. Think about that for a second...18 blowouts in 46 years and Todd Haley gets 9 in 2 1/2!

Say it.

Matt Cassel can lead this team to the playoffs in a QB driven league.

Just say it. And I'll back off.

The Chiefs got blown out because when their defense wasn't nails, our QB couldn't put up 20 points. Aaron Rodgers can. Often.

:LOL:

:facepalm:

Say it.

The Chiefs can make the playoffs behind Matt Cassel in a QB driven league. That's all I'm asking. (against a regular schedule).

Yeah, he can piggyback on the good players and ride until he crashes the bus into an AIDS tree and it explodes in a hail of fiery HIV.

Eat shit.

The Chiefs came into their own the second half of the year because of Justin Houston and ultimately Kyle Orton. Until those two ended up in the picture, the defense didn't have nearly enough talent and our QB (a critical position) brought our team down.

All of you hate Matt Cassel. All of you say the QB is critical. All of you would trade the entire Chiefs' draft, your first born, and the key too Zuul for a franchise QB. Yet nobody here, not a single person, can say that the Chiefs would have made the playoffs had they had a good QB all season long. Orton isn't even a great QB. He's good enough.

Um, yea seeing as they DID :banghead:

Huh? I will say that the kansas city chiefs would have absolutely made the playoffs with just a good qb all season long.

The real reason our d started looking so dominant is because orton cut down on the % of three and out drives.

But again that is moot if we come out strong and win in weeks one and two, even with palko starting four games.


Why won't you just say that one time?
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I can say Peyton Manning took a team that was 2-14 without him to 10-6 and the playoffs. In fact, get a load of this:

Since being taken with the No. 1 overall pick in 1998, Manning has led the Colts to 11 playoff appearances, 11 double-digit winning seasons, eight division crowns, two AFC titles and a Super Bowl championship.

What team has had this level of success consistently without a franchise QB? Maybe the Ravens?

Against a regular schedule.

And I should add... without Jamaal Charles to take the ball away from Matt Cassel.

2 of those wins were damn near miracles. You want to bet on Rivers fumbling another snap? How about the ****ing Raiders playing a QB who was posting on BengalsPlanet the Monday before?

Say it: Haley was a ****ing joke. Say it and we'll back off.

We would have easily made the playoffs had we had a average QB such as Orton this year. I can think of 3 games we probably win that we lost....SD #1, Denver #1 and Pittsburgh.


I don't get what your argument is? One time you are saying Cassel is good enough and the other you are saying he isn't. WTF is it?

What do you mean a "regular schedule"?

We played the schedule put in front of us.

This season if orton had played all 16 games I believe we would have made the playoffs, even with the injuries
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I've said multiple times that it was a huge mistake the first two games. Like I said, it's ridiculous to dwell on 2 games when the coach got more out of the next 14 games than many coaches would have gotten out of 16.

But the fact of the matter is that for the next umpteen games, the ONLY reason the Chiefs were competitive was because coaching turned an average roster into a decent one.

Without Jamaal Charles and Berry, this team had no business making the playoffs. They didn't have enough talent. And that's not because of coaching. And it starts with a HUGE whiff on the GM at the QB position.

Yeah, Orton was nails, putting up a shit ton of points and all.

Yes. I absolutely believe that. But whose fault is that? The coach's? Or the front office that forced Haley to play with a coach that was half of Orton, an average QB's, ability?

Lol.
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Well the schedule he played against was a regular season schedule. WTF?

you just said not one person here could say that, but you could?

Are you ok tonight? You didn't fall and hit your head today did you?

Haley wasn't forced to do anything, if he didn't like it he could have walked.
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The Chiefs were a much better team under Orton than under Cassel.

Period.

And Orton isn't even a great QB. He's average. But the QB isn't important. So Haley should have won behind a QB who wasn't even close to as good as an average QB like Orton.

Ok.

Let's fire every coach that has 2 bad games in 3 years.

The Giants should have fired Tom Coughlin multiple teams. He lost his team worse than Haley several times over his career.

A coach that got the most out of a team for the next 14 games??? Are you on the crystal? Are you suckin' back grandpa's cough medicine? Haley was only here for the next 11 games for one. Secondly he managed tot lose back-back games at home when we had a chance to take 1st place to ourselves and then won a miracle Monday night game. Proceeded to get ass blasted by NE, pulled out a hail mary against Chicago, refused to bench Palko during the Steelers game after throwing 3 pics, 2 back-back and then threw a temper tantrum on the field and for the first time im my life got a penalaty called on a Chiefs coach for unsportsmanlike. Yea, he really got the most out of our team alright!

The schedule the Chiefs played in 2010 was the easiest in the league.

Don't play this game.

I'm laughing because you didn't think this team was talented enough to make the playoffs without charles, berry.

Tell me, what spectacular plays did we run that made haley this genious?
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No one is saying the Chiefs weren't a better team under Orton. That doesn't excuse Haley from his list of fail. My God man, even the Raiders had the balls the throw Palmer in a game in his 1st week. We waited, waited, waited some more and instead of starting Orton threw him on on some stupid trick play and got him hurt. All the while Palko continued to stink up the joint with Stanzi just sitting there and Haley refusing to play him.

Stellar coaching job.

I see, it's Cassel's fault they played what ended up being the easiest schedule in the league. Got it.

I'm laughing because you think there are genius plays to run behind Matt Cassel and Thomas Jones.

That was arguably one of the worst QB-RB tandems in the NFL.

2 in 3 years? Dude, for the ump- mother ****ing -teenth time...Haley got blown out 9 times in 2 1/2 years. That's 7 more than the 2 you keep talking about.

Just a thought but maybe if Haley didn't have to have an orgy of coaches involved with every play call Cassel gets to the line with 15 secs or more and has time to read the defense as opposed to 5 secs and has to hurry just to get the ball snapped things might have been SLIGHTLY different?

What the **** are you talking about?

The Chiefs made the playoffs in 2010 because they had Jamaal Charles and an easy schedule. The defense was okay. The QB was shit.

The talent in 2010 wasn't good. For ANY coach. The healthy talent in 2011 was even worse.

We're not talking about Norv Turner undercoaching a talented team. We're talking about a coach being asked to coach a team that doesn't have much talent, particularly at the QB position.

Well then what did haley do to make us a borderline playoff team when we had all this non talent? I didn't see him suiting up. So what was his secret?
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You are talking about firing a coach because of 2 games that were clearly due to poor coaching. You dont' factor in that maybe much of the 2012 blowouts were due to the fact that we didn't have nearly enough talent, regardless of the coach.

The 2010 team more often than not won based on effort, not on talent. There is only so far you can take a team that doesn't have enough talent.

and crennel comes in and beats two playoff teams in three games. How many did vince lombardi reincarnate beat in his time here?
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lol.
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The QB was shit? I am not big on Cassel but the dude did toss for 27 TD and 7 picks that year. That's hardly a shit performance.

Yeah, that was a real cluster****. I don't know what happened there. More than a fair argument and looks horrible on Haley.

But I to this day still don't believe Haley was ever very happy that he had to run OC playcalls through Muir.

Link to the last sentence please.
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I dont' care what his stats were. Matt Cassel was horrendous in 3rd down efficiency. Was horrendous in the first two quarters. Had maybe 1-2 games where he had any kind of decent performance in the 4th quarter. But he sure put up amazing stats against the NFC West. The team revolved around Jamaal Charles making up for the shortcomings of our QB.

The Chiefs made the playoffs because of Jamaal Charles and an average defense. And because they had a very cooshy schedule. Period.

Also I would like to throw out one final thought, could maybe the way haley acted to cassel contributed to some of his deer in the headlights antics?
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I don't need a link. Think it's pretty damn obvious that Haley always wanted to call his own plays.

Gailey felt like a Hunt hire. Weis felt like a Pioli hire. And we're hearing that Pioli micro-managed the shit out of Haley after the playoffs, so it seems very likely that Pioli demanded that Haley not call his own plays.

I don't have a ton of confidence in Haley's playcalling. But if he wanted to call his own plays, his GM should let him do it instead of forcing a dinosaur on him.

To a point yes. Was he not the QB of this team the year prior? Did they not play so poorly under his leadership that they ended up with pick #5? The really good QBs never seem to have their team picking in the top 5.

I thought it was because haley was a genious?
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Again haley wasn't forced to do anything. He could have walked, and if what people are saying is true his career probably would have been better for it.
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Could it? Maybe.

Could it also be possible that Cassel's success, like Daunte Culpepper, was in throwing average passes to an outrageously good receiver in Randy Moss?

Sorry, on this one, you'll be really hard-pressed to find anyone (even among Haley haters) who think Haley failed the Cassel as you will those who believe Cassel failed Haley.

When did I say Haley was a genius? I'm saying he's not nearly as bad as people want to make him to be. His fault was that he didn't make a ton of a team who didn't have a bunch of talent.

Culpepper also blew his knee out right after moss left...
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What about the other 5 blowouts in 2009 and 2010? That's 2.5 blowouts a year. Prior to Haley we were getting blown out .39 times a year for 46 years. Yeah, that's like once every 3 years. Haley was on pace for 3 a year. You can do the math but that's ****ing insane when you compare the 46 years prior to him.

So you fire a coach when your team is getting waxed almost one out of every 5 games. You fire a coach when you consistently see the plays not getting in until there are 7 or 8 secs left on the clock. You fire a coach when you are getting ass blasted and you refuse to put a different QB in for experience if anything. Then after all that said coach gets an unsportsman like penalty? Nevermind he chased off the 2 prior OC's, one 2 weeks before the season. He put his money on ****ing Tyler Palko for not 1 but 2 seasons and refused to yank him even after he say how much fail the guy threw. Along with the constant childish cursing and yelling on the sidelines.

Yeah, you fire that coach in a ****ing heartbeat. And I didn't even mention our pathetic training camp fiasco.

It sounds more and more like the Chiefs were forcing Haley out the door even before this season started, and that haley had considered resigning a very long time ago. You can't blame a guy like Haley for not wanting to leave his job. How many head coaches quit their job?

But he took a bunch of fifth graders to
7-7 after he cost them the first two games.

Hell he was so great he won two out of three with no talent and sitting on his couch.
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This is true but I will give Cassel a partial pass on that season. 1 it was his first time starting. 2 his OC was fired 2 weeks before the season started. 3 it was a new head coach. Not a total excuse but enough I won't lay it all on him.

Why did Pioli allow Haley to start Palko for 4 games
Other GMs have overridden their HCs under these circumstances
Unless Stanzi was injured there's two to blame

What the **** does that have to do with anything? Who the **** cares?

Culpepper wasn't a good QB. He was a QB that knew how to get the ball within a mile of Randy Moss and Moss was a freakish talent that he could get anything.

There were a million scouting reports after Culpepper left Minnesota that he was a one-read QB. He had zero clue how to read a defense.

Only time we have heard about him contemplating quitting was the week prior to being fired.

If he was that hamstrung he could have been committing career suicide by staying and playing palko
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FTR Haley did not take us 7-7 after the first two losses. He took us 5-6 after the first two losses getting fired with a stellar 5-8 record.

Crennel took us 2-1 to finish off a 7-9 season.

Lol. He was a qb that got by on mobility and totally ****ed his knee and never was the same.
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obviously my post went right over your head pete

Couch = at home for the final two wins zilla has given him credit for.
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And yet, none of these address the fact that this team never had a good QB in those 3 years. Had absolutely horrendous depth.

I don't get blaming Haley for bringing Palko in. Coaches do that all the time. What was embarrassing was that our GM never, in 2 years, brought in a veteran QB to push Palko out.

In the end, horrible personnel/roster decisions are a lot more to blame for this mess than coaching mistakes (and yes, I recognize that many coaching mistakes were made).

He took us to 5-6 in a season where Cassel and Thomas Jones were his guys. And where Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi were his best available options.

Romeo went 2-1 with Kyle Orton. And don't play the card that Orton never got a shot under Haley. There is a half-game (in a game the chiefs won) where the argument applies.

Haley went 5-6 without Charles and a few of those games with a 6th string QB. That isn't that bad.

Oh. So Haley costed us those 3 games.

Not the GM who told Haley his plan B and C were Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi.

Not the cheapskate GM who forced 6th string backups to become starters because he didn't spend on the depth for the Chiefs to win games in the face of injury.

It's a ridiculous argument people make that Haley cost us the season by starting Palko when the guy you would have started otherwise was a rookie Ricky Stanzi, who very well could have been a lot worse.

I wasn't correcting you per sey as I was Zilla. Your post did not go over my head, my bad for correcting him in your post.

Haley wanted Palko. Did you ever think that a GM might listen to his HC? Haley chased off 3 other QB's in Croyle, Gutierez and Gerrard or whoever it was.

Chased off? :spock:

Give me a break. Haley picked Palko over Croyle and Gutierez, two QBs who aren't even in the league anymore. Is that really the argument you want to make? The Texans didn't even want to sign him mid-season when they were out of options. The Redskins cut Gutierez a few months after they signed him.

Pioli didn't have to force anyone on Haley, but he could have easily signed a competitive 4th QB option and given Haley the choice to keep Palko over that guy.

No matter which way you slice it. Pioli gave Haley a shitty starting QB and never in 3 years gave Haley an even remotely decent QB.

Yeah cause Palko was much better. The sooner you get it through your head that Haley was not a good HC the better off you will be.

Ok, maybe a bad choice of words but it isn't like he brought in anyone better.

Pioli gave Haley Cassel as his starter.

The four backup QBs he gave Haley were Palko, Croyle, Gutierez, and Stanzi. 3 of them will be sitting on a couch next year. One of them, Stanzi, doesn't seem to be inspiring much confidence even post-Haley.

(Orton came too little too late)

I'll let that sink in. But by all means, blame the coach who was forced to choose piece of shit over most likely shitty.

So you're argument then is Palko is Pioli's guy and not Haley's?

Must be. That's why he was demoted the minute Haley was fired.

wat

Average into decent? Aren't those the same thing?


Was chiefzilla shitfaced when he was responding in this thread? I can't tell what he was even trying to argue.

They set a franchise record for fewest points scored, yet some asshats think that equates to excellent coaching.

I was absolutely tanked last night. Haha.

My point was that we all said with a tough schedule this team was lucky to go 7-9. We went 7-9. And that's considering that we lost our rb who was our entire offense. Lost our qb and got stuck with a 5th stringer for a few games. Our starting roster had huge talent gaps and we still did OK.

People blame the coach. I blame the Gm for giving Haley shitty guys to work with. Even worse if gretz's story is true that pioli intentionally didn't spend in free agency so he can find an excuse to fire Haley.

When your rbs don't have talent to run the ball.

When your best passing option is Tyler palko or rookie stanzi.

I wasn't a big fan of playcallibg. But talent was 95% of the reason our offense sucked.

I would have to say yes. Here's why.

1. Palko never started over Cassel, EVER. He only started when Cassel went down for the season.

2. True Haley kept Palko on the roster, but that was over players even worse than Palko (or at least equivalent in talent), so it is a push.

3. Who legit has Pioli EVER brought in at QB?

4. Orton started once he learned enough of the playbook to be decent and then went down first play forcing Haley to go back to Palko.

5. The only reason why people are so butt hurt over the Palko situation is because they wanted our 5th rounder in Stanzi to start, but from all appearances he was anything but ready and that did not change when Crennel took over.

At the end of the day we finished 7-9 with one of the toughest schedules in the NFL minus our top offensive player, a young talented TE, and one of if not our best defensive players. This is with one of the worst starting QBs in the league and one of if not the worst backup QB situation in the NFL.

Who legit could Pioli could have brought in to play qb in the time he has been here?


Just curious.

I hate the cassel decision but recognize he options over three years weren't great.

There are, however, a billion and a half qbs pioli could have signed who were better than croyle, Gutierrez, and palko. My guess is, none of those guys will be in the league next year

And stanzi came two years too late. They should have at least drafted a late rounder in 2010.

I agree zilla.


However, I think CP fails to realize sometimes that franchise qbs aren't exactly everywhere.

IMO there are 6 or 7 in the league. WHich means 20 some teams are always lookng for one.

The day RAC took over, before he'd ever run a full practice, he promoted Stanzi to 2nd string and demoted Palko to the end of the bench. It absolutely DID change when Crennel took over.

I would have to look back at all the FA QBs and those drafted ahead of Stanzi to best be able to answer that. To think that the best out there in the past three years were Cassel, Croyle, Palko, Stanzi, and Guitterez is a mighty stretch. What stopped us from getting Dalton with our first rounder last year? He would have helped us more than Baldwin. This is not hindsight either. I liked Dalton in the draft and thought he could be good. He was not worth a #1 pick, but he was worth at least a late first orunder (which of course we had)

6 or 7 in a ten year span, which means 20 some teams will fail MULTIPLE times.

Still...backups are easy and cheap to get. Pioli is 100% to blame for the lack of having a backup.