Pioli doesn't get any credit for any players who improved under Haley, because he fired Haley.

That is reeruned logic, but to be expected.

What about Hali becoming a beast under RAC? He hasn't fired RAC yet? What is your reasoning on that? Think he would be this good as an undersized DE in a 4-3? Not a chance.

Hali is a self-made player. He would have been good under a lot of coaching staffs.

Of course he is and you didn't answer my question.

I think Clay has a slight vendetta against Pioli.

Pioli only hired RAC because he was the next logical deferment to The Patriot Way.

When in doubt, just grab someone from the tree, baby.

You're damn right I do. He's wasted four years of the prime of some of our best players, ever, and now he's trying to power-**** Dwayne Bowe out of Kansas City.

I sat through this shit with Carl and Allen, and I don't like the sequel one ****ing bit.

Now make with some posts about Allen, a future hall of famer, and how the fact he left was awesome for us.

And I suppose you will try show that was a mistake somehow? How at any point has hiring RAC been shown to be a mistake?

Please tell me.

Whose prime has been wasted? DJ who was wallowing and is just now hitting his prime?


How could he not have wasted those 4 years? Exactly what should he have done different?

He's 65 ****ing years old. The very idea he could be our head coach was a giant horror from the minute it became a possibility.

Are you serious?

Charles, Hali, DJ, Bowe, Albert, Dorsey, Flowers, Carr....four years of their careers....gone...nothing to show for it when Pioli dumped in the garbage with his shithead boy wonder Matt.

You sitting there happy with that after Carl did the same thing to two generations of Chiefs?

Sadly, at least another 2-3 years of their careers will be wasted.

Even if they finally wise up and draft a R1 QB next year, you can't expect the kid to go full-Roethlisberger and go to the AFC Championship game/Super Bowl his first year or two.

First off I'm no Cassel fan by any means. I think he was brought in simply for the fact that they knew a housecleaning was basically going down and they knew he would be a good soldier and follow orders while they built from the ground up.


Build up the roster to the point where you can just insert a qb and it can carry him until he gets his feet wet and can lead.

I don't think you could have taken the franchise from where it was in 2008 to where we want it to be in a season, I think it takes time and for you to make a move to get your qb.

IMO, thats the biggest mistake so far. Not McCluster, or Haley, or whatever else. It's not going and getting your guy. Maybe it's Stanzi, or maybe they think it's Cassel, which is absurd.

Which is why I'm not a fan of building the roster before you get your qb. I realize though that you have to keep building your roster and guys are going to get old and retire/move on.



However, if you have your qb it makes it alot easier.

No, you get that young QB immediately, and let him sit behind Cassel for a few years.

Then he's ready to go when Cassel shits the bed - like now.

Instead, we have three Top-11 picks on our D-line.

LMAO

Their actions this offseason say one thing:

WE LOVE MATT CASSEL!

Technically they did do that with Stanzi?


But I get what you are saying. That's more what I meant was the mistake.


Bringing in Cassel, while now we he sucks, wasn't the big problem. He did an alright job moving the ship forward while things were being figured out.


Seeing that he isn't the franchise guy and having a young guy ready to role is the problem. We haven't exactly had a prime spot to draft a young qb early either. The years we suck bad enough to be that high, none there or they are gone.


I don't put the Dorsey pick on this regime, but the other two for sure better stepup the play.

Betting on a 7th round pick and then on a 5th round pick to take you to the Super Bowl.

Those are some low odds.

Enough with this Stanzi bullshit.

And enough with the excuses. We've had three Top-11 picks in the 4 drafts under Pioli. We've had the currency, and apparently have been unwilling to use it. People can ridicule Washington all they want, but they have a legit franchise-type guy. They are at least trying.

Go out and get a real QB.

Not if you know talent like Scott Pioli.

It's a process.

:spock:

They fell ass-backwards into the only decent QB they've (BB/Pioli) ever drafted.

Hell, Pioli didn't even want to draft Brady. He wanted Tim Rattay.

Again, I'm fine with that. Shit I was advocating trading 4 first rounders for Luck.


With those 3 picks, where is your qb? You wanna bitch about not getting one, there hasn't been one there to get.

Sarcastically speaking.

Then where did these other teams all get their QB's?

You have to be willing to move up, or take a risk with a guy.

We've done neither.

I get moving up, but what guy has been there to take a risk with?


Andy Dalton? Jimmy Clausen?




IMO, hindsight 50 50, I would have made a huge effort to go get Cam. I think if I were building a team right now, he's my starting piece. I think he has a chance to be a top 3 qb in the league in the next 3 years.


I've been advocating move up more than anyone. Say you give up those picks and move up for the right guy, he's worth more than you would get out of thos picks anyway.

They didn't have a shot at any of the QBs that went #1 overall, and they didn't have the firepower to outbid Washington for RGIII, so which franchise QBs did they have a legitimate chance to get?

Stafford was un-gettable, but we could have jumped ATL for Ryan. Hell, for the right offer, we could have traded with ATL - they wanted Dorsey.

Freeman would have been seen as a risk at the time, but worth it if the plan is to sit him for 2 years.

You know where I stand on Sanchez.

Hell, I really wanted no part of Tannehill as a prospect, but I would have respected the fact that they recognized the importance of the position and tried to get a guy.

You have no shot at any of those guys of you're unwilling to try. And let's face it - they're unwilling to try because they think they have their guy and are the smartest guys in the league.

Had we drafted Josh Freeman, who is more talented than Cassel and younger, we would at least be sitting here with the future of the regime in the balance, wondering if the quarterback would fulfill his potential.

Instead we're sitting here hoping for Cassel to get benched so a 5th round pick can save the day.

And IMO, Freeman would have kicked ass here with the talent we have over Tampa Bay.

Even for you, this is weak sauce.


Try again.

Would have loved to have Ryan, as I think he gets over the hump soon, although they are getting a little old skill wise in ATL.

I'm not sold on Freeman at all.



But I agree with what you are saying, but I can see where they are coming from in that the "guy" they see as being the "guy" hasn't been available when they pick.

Thats where they lose me. I don't really agree with their view of the "guy".

I'll bump this post in 6 months when Freeman is firing lasers to Vincent Jackson.

And probably embarrassing a visiting Matt Cassel in Week 6.

But hey, on the bright side, we have the highest paid one-dimensional 5-technique in the league.

I'm not big on Freeman, but I think he is better than our guy.


Maybe it's the Iowa guys on here or just hope, but I like Stanzi.

Nah, you'll be on a year sabbatical by then. :shake::LOL:

OK, 4 months, whatever.

I fully expect the Bucs to have a great year. I bet they beat us by 14+.

Yeah, it would really suck to have a 24 year old with prototypical size, arm strength and untapped talent.

With the spread shotgun offense used in college the past decade, you'd think the NFL would have figured out there would be a shortage of good QBing coming out and elect not to make the NFL into a QB driven league.

But alas, Goodell is the square peg abusing the round hole.

Yeah, maybe someone like JaMarcus Russell is available. If not, maybe the greatness that is Vince Young can be gotten.

Freeman's thrown more INTs than TDs in 2 of his 3 seasons. In Cassel's four seasons as a starter, he's never thrown more INTs than TDs. But let's pretend that Freeman has shown that he is the answer. It's easier than taking a real look at what's been going on in KC.

Or, we could have a guy who once threw 25 TD and 6 INT in a season.

That would be cool.

That ship has sailed. Thanks Scott.

Cassel threw 27 and 7, dumbass.

Are you ****ing reeruned?

You're going to compare a kid who's thrown for 3500+ yards, 25/6 and 61+% to JaMarcus Russell and Vince Young?

Tell Scott we said "**** you", Mrs Pioli.

And who has more potential? Who is more talented?

Who gives you a better chance to win a Super Bowl in the next 10 years with this roster?

Freeman, Freeman and Freeman.

Seriously, you're the biggest troll on this board.

Jason, I saw you deleted your post before I read it. Sorry if that was for my use of the "R" word.

No. I'm using your youth/strong arm nonsense as the guidepost. You've been full of shit on this topic since day one. The sad part is that you're a smart enough football poster that you know this, but you keep spewing the same bullshit over and over.

I'd take Vince Young in a heartbeat.


He got ****ed by the Titans and never really got another chance.

I'm not trolling at all. I'm answering some really stupid arguments by you and Clay.


I'm still waiting on your naming of that mythical missed franchise QB.

Excuse me?

Go back and re-read what was said by me and a handful of others about Cassel the day we acquired him.

We've been spot-****ing-on.

Jesus Christ, we've been beaten down to the point that people would take VY.

Really, because you avoided the rest of the post, Mrs. Pioli.

I've always been a Vince Young fan. He's just a headcase.

I went to a few Kstate games back when Freeman played, his final season was impressive to me. I'm with Yavin5 on this, Freeman and TB may just rumble on their division and smoke the Chiefs. Having VJ is going to help a team and Freeman seemed to struggle last year, so Jackson could be a catalyst. The Bucs DL is good and McCoy is a very good DT.

I didn't avoid anything. The discussion was about the franchise QB"

I don't see a need to go along with your decision to move the goalposts just so you can feel better about your asinine position.

LMAO.

Nice edit, assbag.

Oh noes, Freeman has thrown INT's in his FIRST THREE YEARS in the league.

Meanwhile, he's still 51/46.

And he's 24. No room for improvement, according to your dumb ass.

Keep stroking the wood for a career backup with limited talent.

Better yet, go back to your Patriots board and act like you know shit about football because your organization stumbled into a franchise QB no one wanted but Dick Rehbein.

Seriously, this clown makes L.A. Chiefsfan look like a legitimate poster.

It's amazing to me that there are people that continue to defend a 30 year old career backup with limited skills, while bashing 24 year old QB's who have already shown flashes and have a lot of time on their side.

OH NOES! IT'S A RISK!

If you miss on a young QB?

TRY AGAIN.

Miss again?

TRY AGAIN.

Or, you can guarantee mediocrity by throwing the same garbage out there year after year.

I fleshed out the Freeman point. I don't see why that's got your panties in a wad.

Hey, dipshit, I'm not stroking wood over anyone. I'm pointing out that your argument about getting a franchise QB is a bullshit argument. Is your comprehension really that poor?

You can piss and moan all you want, but it's not going to magically produce a franchise QB that Pioli missed on in the draft since the arrival of Cassel.

If Sanchez, Freeman, Dalton, etc... ever show themselves as franchise QBs, you'll have a point. None of them have done it so far, so you're just talking out of your ass right now.

JFC, Clay used 25 and 6 as some miraculous touchstone

Pointing to a 27/7 season is a perfectly reasonable response to that.


Seriously, are trying to out-troll Clay, or something?

My point isn't at all debatable. There's nothing "magical" about acquiring a franchise QB.

You'll never acquire a franchise QB if you never try to.

You can sit back and compare Freeman to Russell all you want, but that doesn't mean the kid is a bust.

Only a fool would give up on a 24 year old with 3 years experience who has this much untapped talent.

I know he was untouchable, but i would have given the farm to have gotten Stafford.

Lol. No.

I don't mind asking someone if they are reeruned, they can't help it.
Posted via Mobile Device

We can't make trades to draft QBs. Completely locked into draft slot, just like the Redskins.

ROFL

I just know that if we cut Cassel today I would feel better about this team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Obviously, we would have missed out on all those first round studs we have.

****ing This.

So far, none of the QBs they've passed on has shown themselves as a franchise QB, so there wasn't some failure just because non-franchise QBs were allowed to slide by. If Freeman becomes another Aaron Rodgers (falling QB who turns out to be franchise level), your point will have merit. Right now, it doesn't.

If you're blind to the differences in those two seasons - age, supporting cast, completion percentage, etc - I can't help you.

For a 22 year old kid to do that - including a 61+% completion rate and a 7.3 YPA - with limited talent around him - is phenomenal.

For a 28 year old to do it with the benefit of a near-historic running game and a YAC-machine at WR1 - and still only complete 58% and be under 7 YPA - BFD.

Ask any football fan outside KC and Tampa three questions:

Which QB had the better season?

Which QB is more likely to become a franchise QB?

Which QB would you rather have on your team?


Who the hell is going to vote for Cassel?

Freeman has better tools and I'd move Cassel and a first for him based on potential alone, but some of you guys overrate the blue hell out of the kid.

He lost the last 12 games last year, even though he had weapons to use and an average defense, talentwise.

That was in his third season, the one most franchise guys separate themselves from the average qbs.

Clay was pointing to 25/6. I noted 27/7. Perfectly reasonable.

The rest of your argument is irrelevant to the post.

BTW, for all the crying about Cassel last year, and since you've decided to make this about Cassel v. Freeman, Cassel's numbers were better than Freeman's last year. That's the guy you're pointing to as a lost opportunity.

It would probably feel like getting out of jail after being in for 3 years.

Rape? That's not a bad word.

This is like arguing with Terri Schaivo.

That's the problem. You're too busy looking at the here and now, and not considering the huge advantage Freeman has in terms of talent, and the time he has to realize that talent.

In the last three years with their respective teams, Freeman's statistics are better than Cassel's in every category except TD's (-2) and INT's (+14)

More yardage, better completion percentage, better YPA.

One fewer win. Young guy, thrown straight into the fire to learn on the job, with no talent around him, and his numbers are either flat-out better, or very comparable to Cassel, who had the benefit of 7 years in the league, a historic running game and weapons to throw (5 yard passes) to.

Holding every disadvantage, Freeman still trumps Cassel.

So what exactly would be different had we chosen Freeman?

At worst, we'd have many more years for the kid to realize his full potential. To learn, and to get better.

You can scream that Freeman isn't a franchise QB right now until you're blue in the face. That's not the point. He has the potential and time to be one, and the QB we currently have does not.

Again, you'll never find a franchise QB if you never try.

What the **** are you talking about?

TB's defense ranked 30th in yards and 32nd in points.

Which is why he had to chuck the ball all over the yard, trying to get them back into games.

And where is the talent you speak of?

They didn't have a 1000 yard rusher. Mike Williams was his only true target.

Put Cassel out there with the 32nd ranked defense, no rushing game and Mike Williams as your biggest threat, and tell me how he does.

You claim we're overrating him, and I think some of you expect 22-23 year old QB's to be Aaron Rodgers immediately.

You're going to make Mrs. Pioli cry.

LMAO

Seriously, I've tried really hard to limit my use of that word after our discussion, but sometimes it's just necessary.

They can have him back.

I think everyone knows how I felt about Cassel, but it's clear he is just a pussy. He runs scared.
Posted via Mobile Device

You'll never find a franchise QB if you never try would be a perfectly good argument if they'd missed on a franchise QB. They haven't, so your argument is idiotic.

And Cassel's been better than Freeman in QB rating, TD% and INT%, as well.