Hope is a dangerous thing?

LMAO

You haven't been beaten with the fail stick enough to learn your lesson, huh?

It's early, but base on early reports would you rather have Geno or Fisher in camp with the Chiefs?

Milliner or Warmack...

I was on the Austin bandwagon(If we weren't going with a QB). I hadn't followed how he has looked in camp.

But to answer the question I would rather have a guy that looks like he is going to get to be an opening day starter than a guy that is struggling at RT. But it's early.

DeCastro is the guard of the century and don't you forget it.

It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. No franchise caliber QB in this class still doesn't mandate that you trade valuable picks for a bottom third QB. There are other options.

I saw a news segment last night about the record crowds at training camp and how Chiefs/Cowboys tickets are averaging ~$200 right now (granted, Cowboys fans are probably part of that, it's amusing since both fanbases haven't had many reasons to pay that much for tickets since the mid-90s)....

...it's crazy how they can fail in exactly the same way over and over and over, but simply trying to start over every few years creates enough buzz to keep fans coming back time and time again.


Would you have been angry if the Chiefs had 1.1 and used it to draft Aaron Rodgers? My opinion is that maybe this was the one draft where we can be 100% certain there was no QB worth taking at #1, but it doesn't excuse the fact that they once again spent a draft pick on another team's backup or didn't take a chance in the 3rd.

Someone posted the stat during the draft.... the Packers have drafted something like 13 QBs in the first 3 rounds since 1992, and they had Favre for 15 of those years. The Chiefs have drafted one, I think? One franchise clearly gets it, while the other does not.

So, maybe Dorsey knew this wasn't the year, and previous regime's failures aren't his fault, but you can't keep feeding me the same shit over and over and over and expect me to think it's going to be different the 5th or 6th or 7th time around. Again, that's not their fault, and maybe they really do see something in Alex Smith or they're already looking at someone for next year, etc; but the same things could be said about previous regimes, too. 'Hopeless' is a strong word... I'm much more apathetic than anything.

You'd like to think that Poe, Jackson and Baldwin were horrible overdrafts, but, in all honesty, they weren't. All three players were pretty well respected leading up to the draft and while they may have went from a few to ten spots earlier than a lot of people though, those picks weren't complete left field, head scratchers.

They were absolutely viable picks, especially considering the Chiefs roster at the time.

- Jackson was absolutely necessary as we were switching to a 34 defense and there wasn't a single legitimate 34 end on the roster at the time. His height, weight and length are as damn near prototype for the five tech position as you can find. The problem that Jackson has had is that he isn't Richard Seymour, which most people around here think he should be - which isn't going to be the case regardless of where he was picked in the draft.

- When we selected Baldwin, our receiving corps was virtually nil. There was Bowe and that was literally about it. Nada. Zilch. And Baldwin, while not the most polished route runner and somewhat lazy in college, had a lot of really incredible circus catch tape and his measurables were simply off the charts. Maybe the best I've ever seen from a wide receiver prospect:

6'4"
230 lbs.
40: 4.5 seconds
Bench: 20 reps
Vertical: 42"
Broad: 129"

Those are insanity sauce level numbers, and to go along with his strong hands and run after the catch ability, he's an easy pick for the Chiefs at that time.

Poe, like Baldwin, was a combine freak whose numbers were absolutely astounding for a man of his size. Add to it that the only legitimate nose tackle on the roster was Jerrell Powe, who was just coming off an non-existent off-season rookie season where he didn't see any significant playing time behind Kelly Gregg. And as the NT in a 34 is the absolute anchor for that entire defense, I'm sure that Crennel and Pioli had visions of Vince Wilfork dancing in their heads when they saw Dontari Poe. Another viable pick for the team considering their roster and scheme.

The real question about these three guys is that the only coach that they've known is Crennel, who, at this point, should be considered one of, if not the worst NFL head coach of the 21st century. His record speaks for itself. (Yes, Jackson had Haley as his head coach initially, but Crennel was his defensive coordinator.)

I'm pretty sure that Reid sees Alex Smith as his prototype for running the Edwards West Coast system. Very smart, very accurate in the intermediary range, doesn't put the ball into the defenses hands and is athletic enough to keep the defenses honest if he needs to pull the ball down and take off.

This may sound a bit crazy, but I firmly believe that Alex Smith is a better fit/better QB for running Andy's offense than Donovan McNabb and I think that's what Reid believes as well. I think he believes that with Smith and the roster as it stands can win and win a lot right now.

I think that if this team buys into what Reid wants them to do and Sutton can get even 20% more out of the defense that they gave last season under Crennel, this team wins the AFC West and a first round playoff game this season with a shot at more.

Like I said earlier 11-5, AFC West Champs and they lose to the Texans in the AFC Championship game in 2013.

Well, in the 6 seasons from 2007 through 2012, it's taken them an average of 2.5 seasons to reach 12 wins... so yeah, maybe a bit crazy.

What you're smoking. Pass me some.

Saccopoo has rationalized himself right back into insanity. What a shame, he was almost coherent during draft season.

They were first round draft picks that have accomplished NOTHING.

NOTHING.

NOT - A - THING.

Busts.

Not a single **** is given.

They were overvalued by our FO/HC due to their athletic ability/measurables and produced nothing.

BUST.

Wasted pick.

I'm pretty much Balanced - I'm "waiting to see" how the team is going to look this year before I order NFL Sunday Ticket. I'm tired of paying to watch TOTAL SUCKAGE. Been there, done that for far to long.

Jackson's a favorite whipping-boy, an justifiably so, but I think it's a little harsh calling him a bust. He's played in 59 of the team's 64 games in the 4 years he's been in the league. It's not like he's Marcus Tubbs. They've gotten something out of him, even if it's not what you'd hope for out of a #3 in a perfect world.

Baldwin's the other end of the spectrum, obviously. Done nothing. Fair label in his case to this point I would say.

Too early to talk about Poe in that sense.

Sac is jacking off because Reid is BYU guy, Alex Smith is a Utah Ute, Sean Smith is a Utah Ute, and they signed Matt Reynolds who is a BYU guy.

Sorry guys, I think Sac is pretty close to being spot on. I'm not thinking AFC Champ. game, but 10-11 wins isn't ridiculous at all with this roster. Flipping the Turnover differential is the easiest thing to turning a team around (Outside of the whole acquiring a high level QB thing). It is proven over and over again and why there are 5-6 new playoff teams every year.

We aren't taking the division unless Manning gets hurt. Is what it is.

WTF happened to my av, lol.

Looks the same to me?

Must be my computer. Thought someone whined about it or something.

Maybe we will flip the differential AND have acquired a high level qb.



Hey I can dream.




Sometimes I dream Alex Smiths a great qb. That's all we need for that guy to be. I dream he throws, four thousand yards. And enough tds to double ints
Posted via Mobile Device

That would be pretty damn awesome. I'm saying 10 because with the talent on the team, he takes care of it like in San Fran they are getting there. If he raises his level of play....heaven have mercy on the AFC.....

this belongs here

LMAO

Alex Smith can play out of his ****ing mind all season and we're still playing second fiddle in our own division.

WTF are you guys smoking?

I'm pretty sure it's Alex's Pole.

Quit overrating those frauds from Pile High.

Scoring 30+ points...

2012 Broncos: 12 times
2011-2012 Chiefs: 0
2007-2012 Chiefs: 11
Alex Smith, career: 9

But hey, Manning will probably throw an interception in the playoffs or something, so that will be fun.

word

Quit overrating a lame QB because he has an arrowhead on his helmet.

No shit.

People can stick their heads in the sand and pretend the Broncos are going to magically regress from last year if they like.

They're the Vegas favorite to win the whole ****ing thing for a reason.

ROFL soft frauds

And they were complete SHIT just 3 years ago...:hmmm:

Denver will not win 13 games this season. They no longer have Magahee at running back, who will be replaced by a rookie. They lost Dumerville and will lose Miller for their first four games. Champ Bailey is a year older and DRC scares no one.

I think eleven wins is their ceiling, which would be veiwed as "regression".

I don't think their defense is cause for concern. The fact that one of the greatest QB's of all time gets another year to mesh with his (injured) OL and WRs; while adding a pretty nice piece (to an already good WR corps) in Welker is what worries me. Montee Ball should be able to step in a be productive as a fourth/fith option. RB isn't too hard of a transition.

The Broncos intend on scoring a lot of points this season. And they will. And they play in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL. **** VonDoom; they're out to average 30 points a game.

I see it much differently. 10 wins is their floor, 14 could be the ceiling. I don't think it's crazy at all to think they're looking at 12-13 wins.

While our floor is probably 6 wins; and if Alex Smith turns out a career year and we get lucky with injuries, our absolute ceiling is 11 wins.

They didn't really downgrade at corner as Tracy Porter sucks anyway, and McGahee was a broke dick. Those two losses are irrelevant.

I agree that Bailey will be a year older. That hurts. As does losing Dumervil completely and Miller for four games. However, Welker is a substantial improvement, and Knighton is a sneaky good DL pickup.

They are largely deck chairs, though. It all rests on neckbone, and I doubt that he can throw the ball with any authority. If he can, then they can win a lot of games b/c the AFC South is terribad and the NFC East is always overrated.

Their schedule is brutal.

Not only is it brutal but a lot of these games are "grudge match" games.

Huh?

I was pretty sure they had one of the easiest schedules in all of the NFL.

Denver, not KC...

Denver had a relatively tough schedule last year, too.... Ravens last year, Ravens this year... Falcons and Saints last year, Giants and Redskins this year... the biggest difference is they have the Patriots this year. Besides that, meh... it's just as mediocre as any other team's schedule.

Based on opponents 2012 W-L record, Denver has the easiets strength of schedule in the league.

This is what I'm talking about.

There is no way that Denver goes 6-0 in the division this year. They open against the Super Bowl winning Ravens, who have a MUCH improved defense over last year with the additions of Dumerville, Brown, etc.

They face the Giants in NY, the Patriots in New England, the Texans in Texas and the Colts in Indy. They have a very tough schedule.

To win 13 games or more, a team has to be incredibly good or incredibly lucky. Denver last year was incredibly lucky because they faced a very poor AFC West division in which they swept.

They're a good team but nowhere near a 14 game winner.

Giants in NY, the Patriots in New England, the Texans in Texas and the Colts in Indy plus Baltimore at home to open the season.

Why is the west so much more improved this season? Manning should have no problems with us and Oakland looks like a juco team.

Yeah, I think 14 wins is a stretch... hell, they could start 0-2.

~12 seems right.

:facepalm:

I think too many Chiefs fans are giving 37 year old Peyton Manning too much credit. He had an inflated record with the Colts due to the weakness of the AFC South (Texans, Jags and Titans), only to lose in the playoffs.

The Broncos had an inflated record in the AFC West because the Chiefs were historically bad, the Raiders were awful and the Chargers didn't live up to expectations, with the same result: Loss in the playoffs.

They'll be a good team but I'll be shocked if they're a great team.

Tracy Porter was benched most of the season. Harris was the #2 and moved inside in the nickel. Unless DRC beats him out, we'll repeat that. Also, Miller has not been suspended yet.

Why do you doubt that Manning can throw with authority?

We played the Patriots last year, too.

I'm not convinced by any means that they'll play for a championship this year, but it's kind of the nature of the game these days. You still have to be pretty damn good to play in the final two weekends, but an elite QB can cover up a lot of warts and get you ~12 wins and even a first round bye. It's not like they were overmatched when they got there last year though... when you lose to the eventual champs in two OTs, you're at least competing with the big boys.

And even though he's a year older, everyone figured he'd take a big step back last year before he ended up with close to career highs in several categories, and now he has a full season with his new team under his belt and no more rust from taking a year off.... so, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't at least be average by his own standards... and an average Peyton Manning should still win 10 or 11 games.

I have to say - it's a little odd to have a thread that I started 3 months ago get bumped for a stupid reason, then become a popular thread for days on topics only peripherally related to the OP.

I keep checking the thread since it's technically one I started, then realize that I don't really have much to do with the conversation. :D

IMO, "True Fan" defines anyone with 1,000 or more posts on a football forum.

:D

Yeah, I think eleven wins is their ceiling. I think their secondary has not improved and they lost their second best pass rusher, which will likely affect their best pass rusher, who will miss four games.

They have the Ravens, Colts, Redskins, Cowboys and Giants in their first eight games. That's a tough first half, especially without Miller.

So 10 wins is the Chiefs FLOOR.

But 11 wins is the Broncos CEILING.

LMAO

Dane has gone full reerun this offseason. Making last offseason look like he was a pessimist.

And Chase Daniel is a franchise QB in waiting.

What is the Chiefs ceiling?

The mere fact that your stupid ass disagrees is proof enough for me.

Thanks.

And I've reapetedly said it SHOULD BE their floor. You don't give up two second round picks to aspire to 7-9.

**** off, Douche. I never said that, asswipe.

Some of you people are so ****ing clueless that you can't take part in a rational discussion.

You're basically saying it's possible the Chiefs win more games than Denver this year.

Squirrels are eating your brain.

And you continue to prove that you're clueless about the NFL.

Your obsession with QB's, while overlooking the rest of the football team, is humorous and sad at the same time.

You didn't let us know what the Chiefs "ceiling" is.

13 wins? 14 wins?

Porter was also the only semi-starter you lost. I know he had an issue with seizures and missed most of the season. Thus, I was comparing the loss of Porter to the addition of DRC.

I doubt the second one because his arm seemed to lose some serious velocity in the last few games of the season, especially in the playoffs. I don't see how that improves, nor do I think that injury lets him throw the ball with the velocity he once did, and to be honest, he never had an overpowering arm or threw a super tight spiral.

The Broncos need to hope that Manning is Montana '93 not Montana '94. Or Favre '09 instead of Favre '10. I just think that is a lot of ask.

Go **** yourself.

Why don't you tell us all that the Broncos are going to beat the Giants, Colts, Texans, Cowboys, Ravens and Redskins.

While I think the Broncos won't be quite as good as they were last year, to suggest their ceiling is 11 wins, like they could finish 9-7 or something, is hilarious.

Please tell us what the Chiefs ceiling is. I want to hear this. Your predictions have been hilarious the last two offseasons.

Yeah, I wasn't saying you were wrong about Porter, just clarifying that he was never really an important part of the defense.

I agree that velocity and perfect spirals have never been part of his success, so I'm not really sure why the possibility of losing some of those aspects would mean he couldn't be dominant again. Obviously training camp reports should be taken with a grain of salt, but apparently Manning looks like he's in better shape and is throwing better than he was last year at this point.

Go **** yourself. You continue to act like a dickless moron and I'll treat you as such.

Reports from training camp are that Manning's arm strength is better than it was last year. I think Denver will win 12 or 13 games, easily, and sweep the Chiefs.

So you seem to be afraid of opening your mouth and inserting your foot again, is that it?

Scared to tell us what this team's ceiling is, or something?

Geno>Cam

LMAO

Copyrightinfringement@nfl.com

So you just want to avoid the subject entirely. That's great, Dane.

Manning, BTW, has bulked up this offseason. He looks GREAT.

I think Denver's floor is 10 wins.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...anning_500.jpg

Dontari will be waiting

and Houston and Hali and Johnson and Berry and.....:D

Think of it like baseball. Manning never threw 97, but that doesn't mean that the difference between 90 and 87 is insignificant. His lack of arm strength was evident in that playoff game. That could be an issue with the cold (supposedly it was with Favre as he aged), a loss of velocity due to age, a combination of both, or after-effects of his neck procedure.

A Denver fan is hoping for the latter, and it's not an unreasonable hope.

I just know that, generally, once someone loses throwing velocity it doesn't come back.

MeatPeeker just put the clown shoes on Dane.

He put them on last offseason and never took them off.

LMAO