I always repped the n00bs as much as possible to offset their shit. So I'm far from innocent

I will say I'm slightly disappointed that Blackbob hasn't been banned yet.


Some serious groveling and $$$ was probably involved.

I'm glad someone recognizes that. Cochise and I agree on nothing but at least he's honest about the shit that gets sent my way by a small group of posters.

Frazod begged to be thrown out on his ear repeatedly. But yeah, I know Native is a contributing a-hole too. That's why I told him to can it.

God damn it felt good to read that.

This too. It should have been disabled a long time ago.

Holy hell...this one as well.

Well you certainly play the victim card well.

I definitely believe that a lot of Frazods problems here stemmed from this one person.

Well you certainly play the self deprecating beta card well.

You're right. But you revel in i. You enjoy it. You're right in there in the shit with them. Therefore, you're equally culpable, generally. The only reason I've ever had your back was for racial slurs and rightfully so. But you're a problem child and I think even you know that.

No

Thig?

:evil::evil:

I'm not sure if that is a complement but thank you.

There's some truth to that. But that didn't excuse him resorting to scorched earth tactics.

why not a binding poll on whether or not rep stays?

I am the first to admit I am not on here near as much as I used to be mostly because life gets in the way, so I don't know what exactly goes on all the time but what little I have seen it doesn't look much different than it was when I joined 10 years ago. Of course there is exceptions like the personal battle between Native and Fraz and others. I know BRC has a few followers that constantly rag his ass and I am sure he gets tired of that. But that kind of stuff is going to happen with a large group of people and pretty loose moderation.

I have suggested several times about getting rid of rep, it serves no purpose and just causes trouble. If you did that and people only accept PM's from their friends then alot of the sniping would be done in the open where mods or other people can call them on it.

There are plenty of bitter rivals here, and in just about every thread there's someone cussing someone out or people just being very nasty to each other simply for disagreeing with a point of discussion.

frazod vs. kc native could have continued on for years and years except the racial slur line was continually crossed and that's pretty black and white.

But I think it's become a major issue for the community here, the "**** you" tenor of most discussions.

I'm an agitator. I'll claim that. That's also why I don't ask for posters to be banned and have only raised issues when I feel like I've not been treated unequally.

I will add that I don't go after posters that are civil towards me and others. I do tend to go after posters that I feel like bully others or are just general loudmouths (or just ask for it i.e. MTG).

Yea...I can't deny the blow up at the end, but I could understand where the dude was coming from. On the outside looking in it appeared that Fraz was being punished while there was little acknowledgement that Native had any wrongdoing. I've never talked to Fraz about it, that was just my view of what was going on. That's why it was nice to read your last few posts in this thread.

From where I'm sitting, your signal to noise ratio is a lot more noise. You have to do something to repair that perception. I don't dislike you but you're a problem.

cool, Native is catching some shit from up above.

This isn't first time this has happened.

I just don't cry about it all over the board when it happens.

Native is smarter about his trolling that most the guys he's baiting. He knows the rules and he stays within them. That makes it impossible for me when everybody else is stepping on their own dicks to get to him. The two month "lawnboy" schtick was just a small, unfortunate piece of the pie. But what am I supposed to do if one of my friends starts calling a black guy "lazy darky" because he got under his skin. I'm going to do what is right and my friend is going to be pissed at me.

This thread has contracted venereal disease.

You're right. You have some pride and that's great. But have some pride in the way in which you conduct yourself. Reach out to somebody you don't like and bury the hatchet. Get to know them. Build a relationship. It's a whole lot more fulfilling than baiting them into dropping racial slurs on you.

It's horrible. I'm just about through with it. I hate all this. I don't have a magic wand. But I haven't heard a single word about "inner circle" lately so at least that myth has been put to bed.

At the same time you let "lazy darky" stalk your friend pushing him to the breaking point. There didn't seem to be any post your friend could make that "lazy darky" wouldn't inject into in a negative way.

Exactly. I got into it with a few people on this board early on and now, because of that, I consider them very good friends. Native has shown zero interest in that and just baits and baits and baits.

Holy ****. Dr. Phil?

Understood. Like I said, that was just my perception from the outside looking in. You mods might have had some conversation about Native behind closed doors and the end result was exactly what you just posted. He's a problem, but for the most part he's within the rules. It just didn't get acknowledged much publicly(at least that I remember), and that made it appear as though he was being favored.

I also agree that he's a smart, talented troll...but still, just a troll.

I've certainly not been here as long as many people, never been to a Planet function at Joes or anywhere else either... but it sure seems like many of the people who have are no longer wanted, by that I mean that their complaints are no longer heard and if they are they're discounted in a big way.

"hey you guys chose to leave, oh well see ya" doesn't seem like a very friendly or loyal proposition to people who've been so good for this site... me, I'm something of an outsider anyway so its not a personal matter, but the fact is that it seems like many solid vets are leaving and no one gives a damn, maybe because "we have the traffic, your loss means little".

FTR... Flop has never been anything but cool to me, honest answers to private questions, many pos rep messages etc... that's why I think he should stay on, he might let emotion get the better of him but so do I and I'm 43... I'd like to think I'm above that at 43, but all too often I find that I'm not and get drawn into things. We're all human.

Phil... there is all too often a cool arrogance in his dealings with others... "hey take it or leave it, not gonna cuss ya or whatever, just gonna jack you up and/or ignore you in any other number of ways, been here a long time? show up to the functions? don't care we got plenty of traffic without ya"

Dudes never done anything to me, but I do notice that beefs with longtime members don't seem to mean much to him.. all of the time, money and memories ought to count for more than they do, with certain people, than they do with Phil... IMO.

Maybe I'm white knighting a bit, but it sure seems like personal feelings and pride play a larger role than they should sometimes... "I'm not gonna beg" sounds like another way of saying "I don't care" sometimes.

At some point, grownups have to be grownups and people who come here mostly for recreation should not be expected to babysit them for months and years.

I think we all are still waiting to hear from Kyle about his algorithm to determine what is racist language and what is not.

No one was willing to have the conversation on it. I thought it was something that we could talk our way through and get at least "some" form of consensus.. it's funny that the problem ended up not being one of people disagreeing... it was one of people simply not wanting to have a thought out discussion on the matter. I kept trying to push the conversation forward and ended up mostly talking to myself.

I was and still am but I thought you were making it overly complicated when it really isn't.

There's no doubt you've seen this, especially with people in the past year. I've had people accusing me of favorable treatment my entire tenure. So when I treat people like bugeater and frazod (who have both been to my house) the same as I treat everybody else when they abuse rep and then we're no longer friends because of it, I'm going to have an attitude about it. I don't have time to coddle assholes and it's not in my job description whatsoever. I was a whole lot kinder a decade ago, no doubt. But I'm not bending over for people like bugeater and frazod when they show me zero respect as a friend first and foremost and as a leader on this site. Their behavior hurt me at first but now I'm a little cavalier about it. That's probably a defense mechanism.

If I'm arrogant about anybody else, I don't know why. I don't have the desire to change people's minds once they've made them up. I'm tired of the lies and the accusations. Those people still insist I read their private messages. I've never once read anybody's private messages. But try to convince them of that.

Not trying to sidetrack this thread too much... but most people think that "well it's OBVIOUS" what is racist and what isn't... yeah, that's easily said but not at all easily enforced. There is a metric ton of grey area and I always tend to err on the side of free speech.

You can't just make a "list".. it's not the simple if you want to avoid the constant bitching that comes from "judgement calls."

I think we were on a decent track before everyone got lazy and stopped discussing it.

oh and just to be clear... the only people who have access to read everyone's PMS are the people with root level access to the db... which is basically ME. It would be a complete pain in the ass to do it... and I'm far too lazy to do so.

So when people accuse mods of reading PMs... they don't know what they are talking about. Don't believe me? Ask DaFace, he knows.

I'm pretty sure your idea for moderating DC got lost in some blowup somewhere along the way. Kyle's directive is that we don't moderate DC unless something way over the top happens. That's what we've been doing.

Verified. I really have no idea how that story continues to live.

JFC what a shit show this turned out to be.
Where's my burbon?

Side note: anyone else think it's funny that the shortened plural of Private Messages is PMS?

The same way tons of people believed Hootie's manifesto. They're repeated and repeated and repeated and eventually they're undisputed fact.

Dear Kyle,

Kill rep.

Thanks,
Jeff

I vaguely remember the manifesto. I distinctly remember not reading it.

There are certain racial terms that should be on the list and we all know what they are. the rest of your post I agree with.

My point was and continues to be Context is everything so it is almost impossible IMHO to have an all encompassing rule.

I don't want to derail this thread so I will be quiet now.

There is nothing funny about PMS. As a former married man it was a dreaded period. (see what I did there)

I've been on board with this idea for about 7 years. We've voted several times. Most people don't think it's a problem. I did kill visitor messages, however.

I agree but I still hold out hope that we are smart enough to develop a "test" that can be applied to limit the amount of judgement goes into it.

As for the list,if our "test" is worth a shit at all, the list would be superfluous.

I'm starting to agree with that statement and would have no issue dumping it. It seems to cause a lot of the problems around here.

Thats why it's a cesspool. It brings the whole site down because shit doesn't stay in DC.

It' weird. I have never understood why people care or even check this. I will goes months without even remembering rep exists. As Phil pointed out, the board has consistently voted to keep it. I honestly don't care.

Agreed. With that in mind, however, people have to be willing to bend a little. If you're using edgy terminology with a racial connotation then you should expect someone to question it. A reasonable person should be willing to back away from it if called on it. Anything less is arrogance on their part, imo.

Why do you keep saying I had some major beef with you bottoming out my rep when I've already told you more than once that isn't the case at all? I know I made one snarky comment to you about it early on, and then after I checked my rep history and saw that I had hit the guy 90+ times I acknowledged that was excessive. I never complained about it at all after that.

And as far as the PMs, maybe you really can't read them and the post you made that reflected something that was discussed via PM was an amazing coincidence. I don't know, but I do know that I'm not the only one who questions the integrity of the PM system.

Just take Fraz for instance, you've already made it clear to Native that he was a huge, unwelcome factor in that whole ordeal, but at the time it seemed like maybe Fraz bore the brunt of it.

Was some of that partially because Fraz was so indignant? yeah, he went overboard, I'm fine saying that... but maybe some of that zealousness was due to the fact that Native had nary a negative word thrown his way about all of it.

His punishments were swift and sure, but its hard to blame him for thinking that Native got off easy... not so swift and sure.

Anyway, I'm a bit of an outsider piping up here, but it seems like time onboard should mean more than it does sometimes... and not letting things escalate to the point of no return between posters in the name of "gnarly ass no holds barred message board".

My two bits, on with the show...

Words like "monkey", ""lazy", and "ninja" are why any effort towards any kind of list is an exercise in futility. We already have a list filtered.

Context and intent are the most important factors. My rule of "would this white guy walking down Troost say this to a group of black guys" has never failed me. I've gotten a whole lot of argument and pushback but I've never been wrong.

Take my word on this.. there is simply no mechanism that the mods have access to to read them... UNLESS the PM is forwarded directly to them by one of the parties involved of course.

Native had just been banned the week before Frazod's blowup and also had his rep bottomed out in the prior month so this myth that Native got off easy needs to die. He got virtually identical punishments as Frazod and he took them like a grown ass man. That's why I have a modicum of respect for the guy. He's not a whiny bitch. He gets banned, he takes it. He gets his wrist slapped, he takes it. We've been saying something for 14 years on this site and it's just as true today as it was in Aug, 2000 - don't be a douchebag and you're not going to draw the attention of the mod team.

Let's do a little analysis of rep.

How many of these major events have been caused by rep (including reading rep messages)?

Does it bring people or keep people here?

People vote to keep it because it's like a virtual ego stroking (I've found myself being overly concerned about it as well). It's a popularity contest with a neg rep being equivalent to a put down.

I propose a simple 1 week evaluation period during the off season without it. After which a comprehensive review taking place.

Just a thought. Nothing to lose, a ton to gain.

For the life of me I have no idea why anyone cares about rep, but to some people it's a reason to start a war.

Well I know that didn't happen. But believe me, as God as my witness I had every reason to believe it at the time...as I mentioned it would have to be an utterly amazing, one in a million coincidence otherwise.

But if that is truly the case I do owe Phobia an apology for the accusation.

I don't either but they do. It seems it is used mostly to say shit to each other behind closed doors. get rid of it without a vote and see what happens. You won't hear me bitch.

In the days and weeks after I bottomed out your rep, you unfriended me on facebook for no apparent reason and began giving me the cold shoulder around here, then you just got increasingly more snippy to me. We had no other interaction that could explain it so maybe I made some assumption. Oh yeah, I also had a discussion with a very close friend of yours who confirmed it as well.

Heh. I've never lied to anybody on this site. You want to know something, I'll tell you. Sometimes I'll even tell you something you don't want to hear.

And in the "funny shit that just happened" category... My buddy Seth just kicked Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez out of his bar for not showing ID. Like literally 10 minutes ago.

The turning point in this blowup was a revelation about a mod snooping in people's rep messages, not PMs.

Yep

As an occasional reader of DC....IMO, the problem is more that, regardless of party affiliation, there are a very few that actually discuss what the post/article/etc. Within 2 posts of the opening post, someone is there from the opposite party throwing names at the poster, or just immediately dismissing the article because it was from *insert "RWNJ"/"LWNJ" website*.

Catering to the dumbass inability to control ones emotions is not worthy of a bunch of degenerate adults.

Don't like rep? Ignore your rep. What the ****.

They didn't give ID. How does he know it was really them?

I'll drink there for no other reason next time I am in town.

Not that I have any problems with those two getting thrown out of anywhere... but as public figures, their DOB shouldn't really in question. Is there a local ordinance about physically having ID on you in that city?

LOL

****ing awesome.

No she decided to go be happy.

I bet there is a graph somewhere that shows the decline in civility corresponding with each female's subsequent exit.

It's a good little bar (Valhalla), and happens to be next door to my local... Bull McCabes.

Never. Not once in ten years.

I take it you're a proponent of the rep system?

Haha. Yeah you sure weren't looking for any validation. You're a fat guy inside and out.