Agreed. We can build a championship-caliber team in the aggregate.

And you've just described nearly the entire ****ing league.

The model the Chiefs have right now is one that can win a championship; the problem is that the window to win it isn't going to be open for long.

It takes a QB to keep that window open for a decade or more.

You referencing the Saints game over, and over, and over again just shows me how ****ing stupid you really are

Oh, it most certainly was. 4th down in the 4th quarter of the NFC Championship game against a team and defense that just OBLITERATED Aaron Rodgers. Yep, that Aaron Rodgers.

He's played in three ****ing playoff games. Probably wise not to start sucking our own dicks just yet.

The sample size doesn't allow one to make claims about his playoff ability.

Name one.

Even the Seahawks, who have to be considered the most complete team in the league, needed a fluke-ass booted onside kick and an immobile Aaron Rodgers to storm back. A TON had to go right for them to get to the SB last season. And again, I don't see a massive talent gap between the Chiefs and Seahaws. I like our pass catchers and box-7 better. I like their DBs and OL better. Our RBs and STs are a wash. Wilson may well be the difference between the two but even with him, it took some pretty outstanding fortune for them to get to where they got.

The Broncos are Manning and if he's not Manning, he's definitely not a world beater. That Pats are probably the closes you can come up with but that teams far from unbeatable.

The 90's Cowboys don't don't exist; they can't exist in a cap era. That's my point exactly - it's a parity driven league. You don't build juggernauts anymore and any expectation that the Chiefs will suddenly find the rosetta stone that allows them to do so is kinda nutty.

As I stated (and Deez restated). The only way to have a 10 year window is with a HOF quarterback. Now we may even be entering an era where that doesn't do it for you as they start requiring 1/3 of your cap to hold onto, but we'll see. That said, we don't have a HOF quarterback and if you want to continue to hold the sins of Scott Pioli (not drafting Russell) against Dorsey, you're welcome to do so, reason be damned.

Dorsey's done a damn fine job turning this team into a legitimate contender. Is it a prohibitive favorite? No, no it is not. But it's not some also-ran either. This is a team that other teams are not happy to see on their schedule.

It shows he isn't a liability in the playoffs, at minimum..and shows he has the ability to play at a high level on the big stage.

Why the **** can't he do it during the regular season?

Lack of urgency of the players around him?

So it's all the other player's fault?

Oh? Maybe I should reference the 215 yard game or 208 yard game instead right? So much brilliance to choose from!! I just love how he led the team to that 43-8 Superbowl win. Just spectacular stuff there.
Posted via Mobile Device

Here's something for people to think about. Below are facts.

In 2011 on a top 5 talented 49er team, Alex Smith has SIX 4th quarter comeback wins.

In the middle of November (can't find the stat for the year so if anyone can assist that'd be great) he had a 4th Q QBR of 118.8, which was first in the NFL.


http://www.ninersnation.com/2011/11/...ch-quarterback

And in 2012 he played 8 games (other 2 he barely played due to injury) and had 12 TD's and 1,659 yards, translating to 3,300 ish yards with 24 TD's.

In the 2nd half of 2013, with what I would call a slightly below average receiving core and a slightly above average OL (that's fair right?), there were Alex's numbers (including the playoff game)

18 TD's/3 INT's and 1,772 yards.

So, having said that, and knowing the stats he has in the playoffs, do you think Alex can replicate those numbers with the following:

-an at least average OL like the 2nd half of 2013
-best WR core he's ever had (this is fair to say, and mostly because of Maclin)
-having a top 10 talented team
-throwing more in Reid's offense

What say you?

It shows almost nothing because of the limited sample size.

It was a question, not a statement.

That said, it's a valid question, for sure. How many times have you seen Dwayne Bowe get 150 yards+ in a game? How many times have we seen Donnie Avery get open for a big play and NOT drop the ball? Same goes for AJ Jenkins. Without his big catch, I doubt he's a 2014 Chief.

Ron Parker, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry - those guys were playing their asses off and the reason the Chiefs gave up so many points in the second half was mainly due to the loss of Flowers. T.Y. Hilton started going off and no one could cover him.

There was certainly a lack of intensity by several players in 2014, beginning with Dwayne Bowe. It's silly not to believe the Chiefs will be a better team and have better play from their QB in 2015.

The fact that a lot of the players you're counting on as the reasons why the Chiefs will take a drastic leap of improvement compared to last year are either rookies, second year players or JAG types of guys that haven't really shown anything to date yet. It could be the case they are Week 1 difference makers, but it's not likely.

So Wilson, being better than Avery -who was derided as a pretty terrible player here on this board so if I set this bar any higher my dick will drag over it- is going to be enough of a credible threat that defenses won't be able to double or triple Maclin because it would let Wilson run free for huge gains and scores?

It could happen, but Wilson is still an undersized, undrafted WR out of a program that didn't even have a football team until 2010. He didn't play against quality opponents (and even then, it was the Sun Belt) until his final year at the school. In that regard he's a step up above a Division II type of guy. The statistical deck is stacked against him; if he proves to be a #2 or better type of WR in his second year (which, let's be honest here, there aren't any teams in the league where he'd even be in this type of discussion) would put him in the same conversation of being as good as Wayne Chrebet and Victor Cruz and would be better than a HoF caliber in Rod Smith in his second year.

Again, it's possible, but it's not likely because we'd be talking about an additional handful of UDFA guys who come out of college and become legit threats in such a short time. Wilson's got the edge over Rod Smith and Chrebet because of the ridiculously one-sided officiating that hamstrings defenses from actually playing football so he very well could get exceed Wes Welker's 29 catches for 434 yards in a "sophomore" year but given the fact that I can point to such a few number of UDFA WRs having success, it's really hard to count on this happening.


Never said he was some sort of crucial part and wasn't good but he was necessary and you knew what you're getting...

Kelce's downside is the knee injury and fumbling. Beyond that, it's going to be shocking if he isn't chipping in 600-700 yards and X amount of TDs. Problem is, O'Shaughnessy is coming out of the freaking Missouri Valley and Harris is a basketball convert and it shows. If O'Shaughnessy isn't capable of blocking NFL talent, then it's going to complicate things for the running game to a large extent as well as the passing game.

Allen has been a disappointment and if Stephenson wasn't worth putting back in the lineup because of disciplinary reasons even though the offensive line was just so bad last year, then it's hard to buy they'll be improvements. Fulton wasn't very good either and Fanaika just seems like another Linkenbach or Schwartz type of signing.

It's not a simple "Grubbs > McGlynn and Grubbs = Hudson" so it's not going to be as bad as last year totally glosses over the fact there is a total question mark at center -be it Kush or Morse- in favor of thinking that there's a quality OL replacing a quality OL and therefore being a wash at worst or a marked improvement at best.

There's also the fact that there's a good chance, again, that Fisher is going to be the only OL that starts Week 1 that was starting for the Chiefs for a plurality of games in '14. If the line sucks on the whole then one of the reasons will be because of chemistry and the five starters not "gelling".

But really the problem on the line is going to be center. Morse can't snap a shotgun and Kush played in a grand total of one NFL game against an opponent that made Rokevious Watkins look good. I can almost guarantee there will be handwringing about how bad the center is and why didn't Dorsey didn't do anything concrete to improve that position in the offseason by the bye week if not much earlier.

Achilles tears suck and a lot of guys don't come back from them. It'll be a win if one of DeVito or DJ come back close to their level of play that we're expecting. The run defense will improve, but that exactly wasn't the problem with '14's team outside of the games against Oakland and Arizona.

Yes it does. < 19 points allowed a game and no games allowing 30+ points is AMAZING under these current bullshit rules. The only way the defense is better than last year is if they regularly shutdown an offense in both of its phases as well as hauling in every pass a defender gets a hand on for an interception and generating a load of fumbles with almost as many of recoveries. It could happen, but turnovers are largely driven by luck.

I already said Peters will likely be a starter sooner than later on defense or at least getting enough rotational snaps you'd think he's a starter. He'll probably get some picks too. Beyond that, Gaines needs to improve so he can replace Sean Smith as the #2 corner next year and Nelson just need to make the team.

Improving the margins is an improvement, that is 100% correct. But this team needs improvements beyond the margins to take the next step from where they were last year. The defense absolutely has to '13 Seahawks or '85 Bears good to the point they're not allowing offenses to get more than a touchdown and field goal lead at any point in the game. The offense has to be better across the board to be the next step from last year in terms of quarterbacking, receiving and blocking. The special teams.. Well, Winchester has to not snap over Colquitt's head and Santos has to be 90%+ on kicks shorter than 30 yards out.

Well, until you get a franchise QB, then you have the have a team that's at least capable of winning 14 games in the regular season by getting all the right bounces going your way and beating the opponents you have no business losing to. The goal should be a team capable of winning 11 games year in and year out on the bottom edge of the scale. Wins and losses coming on the margins means you're a franchise hovering around the .500 mark; there's no real difference between 7-9 and 9-7 and only bad luck and injuries differentiates 10-6 from 6-10.

There's no "objective" measures you can point to as being definitive proof of the roster being better than '14. Subjectively, you can think that and may very well be correct. But, as per the reasons I've outlined in the last few posts, there isn't a lot of objective differences from '14 to '15 now beside Maclin being better than Bowe because of agility and speed reasons, Grubbs being an obvious upgrade over whatever slapdick was manning LG and DeVito/DJ coming back to a defense that was still good without them unless you think every rookie and every player drafted last year comes out to be replacement level guys at their positions right of the gate. The rookies and second year guys being above JAG level this year is possible... it's just not likely.

So yeah, there's a lot more to me that states that the bookmakers in Vegas have the Chiefs' futures odds of a title win on par with Buffalo, Miami and Minnesota (33 to 1) and the over under on wins at 8.5 when you think about the limited improvements the team has made (Maclin, getting DeVito and or DJ back) compared to what other teams have done as well as the absolutely brutal schedule.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/56qStmq0grA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No, you're idiotic for basing a QBs worth on PASSING YARDS alone ... I mean, good God, how desperate can you be?

From what I've seen, Alex plays like that when he has no choice. He knew the team needed him.

Only exception to that was the Raiders game at Arrowhead where he was throwing deep and taking some shots.
He took some shots in Pittsburgh as well. I just hope he get that attacking mindset.

It's a very legit question and concern.

Probably, but maybe not.

If a guy goes out there and in his very first game in the post-season plays a hell of a game, it doesn't say that's what he'll always do, but it does say that the moment isn't too big for him.

As a Cardinals fan, I'm not afraid of Michael Wacha going out there and being cowed by a showdown with Clayton Kershaw. Sure, he may go out there, not have his best stuff that day and just flat lose - but it won't be because he's afraid of the moment.

It's the same thing with Alex Smith. I don't believe any player is capable of flipping on the 'pressure' switch and playing better in the clutch. I believe over large enough sample sizes, virtually everybody's post-season performance will mirror their regular season performances. However, I maintain an exception to that rule in that believe that players are sometimes unable to handle the pressure of the post-season and those players will fold because of that pressure.

I don't think we have to worry about that with Smith. The pressure won't unravel Smith in the post-season. That's a pretty damn handy bit of information to have for a team that intends to win around him and not through him. It means they can rely on a baseline performance from him in the post-season and build from there.

He is right though. This place sucks.

Though you can only talk about and break down something so much it's just football it isn't this infinitely complicated thing.

There are some interesting people here and it can be fun to see all the random stuff that comes up as well as DC which is basically Free Republic these days.

I agree with your overall sentiment that "clutch" doesn't exist but "choking" absolutely does.

Watchout saying that, you'll get bombarded.

I like my chances with the company I'll keep based on my claim.

Oh yeah...love that attacking mindset from Alex when we get those big 12 points in a pivotal game.

You mean like how the morons have turned this thread in to exactly why he is leaving?

So Alex Smith is going from the bottom of the league in YPC and TD% to the top of the league in YPC and TD%.

When pigs fly, mother****er.

Before he even makes a decision, there are constraints he's playing under.

The overall offensive system, which is not based around the deep ball.

The plays which are called on offense.

The talent on the roster at WR, which has been poor his entire tenure.

The game situation, which he "manages" effectively according to the situation. He had his best game as a Chief in the playoffs, after all.

He doesn't throw it up just to be doing it.

Intellectually dishonest reasoning.

Alex Smith throws deep and intermediate less than EVERY OTHER WEST COAST QB IN THE NFL. EVER.

Except for that pesky fact that 7 of 10 games to open are away from Arrowhead Stadium.

2004 all over again.


High hopes, hard start, just can't recover.

I know. It's scary. It could be another huge let down, and although, I almost joined the dark side, this off season, something just feels different.
A part of me almost expects the pain, but when I look at the roster objectively, the amount of speed on offense, and loads of talent on defense are just beyond anything I've seen here all at the same time. We have talent at every level. The o-line is really my only concern, and the quick passing game to a plethora of playmakers kind of takes the sting out of that.
Actually, there's one more concern. The Run D. Pray for DJ to be healthy. If Berry pulled a miracle and made it to the field to play in the box later this season, we could be dominant.

And we get more home games at the end to close it out. I still don't get the complaining.

If it was flipped the other way, you guys would complain about how we don't get enough home games late in the year and that impedes on our ability to "finish strong"

ALEX SMITH'S 946th PLAY FROM SCRIMMAGE HOW DO YOU DEFEND THE BULLSHIT THAT HAPPENED THERE

Turned into an Alex Smith thread... that's ****ing awesome. ROFLLMAO

OTWP would have it no other way

I've never seen a dead horse beaten quite this much. I eagerly await the day of having a really shitty or really good QB so this topic can be taken off the table and we have a somewhat unified CP.

Reid has had a not good track record in the latter half of the season going 20-25 going back to 2009.

Applying that to this year with that trend, the Chiefs have to be no worse than 4-4 going in to the bye to have a shot at the playoffs.. and that is counting on Reid reversing a trend that's been consistent for all but one season between '09 and now.

I included his 42 rushing yards dude.

Lest you forget the Matt Cassel defenders?

You left out one of the constraints: the complete mind-**** that Jim Harbaugh put on him.

In any case, he's not a victim. They've been trying to coach him to be more aggressive for three years (according to Reid).

(And by 'three years' I mean three offseasons. I realize he's only played two seasons here, but we're in year three).

After his first two seasons in KC, things looked like they might be improving. He played well that year, the team improved 6 games over the year before, made the postseason. Coming off the Herm and Romeo years things were looking much improved. It wasn't crazy to be optimistic about the team at that time.

If you look at Alex Smith's career objectively, the story is pretty easy to discern.

He came into the league and played for a moribund franchise. He had a shoulder injury that lingered. Then he had the shoulder corrected surgically, took a year off, came back fixed. At the same time, the team cleaned house and got the right people in. His career flourished.

Then he came to KC, which at the time was pretty much back where he started.

The obvious conclusion is that he isn't an all time great but if you build a good team around him, he'll consistently win games.

Cassel talk was bad, but he turned heel too quickly. I think by the end of this season, Smith will finally fall pretty clearly on one side of the line or the other. It will either be only the most homerish defenders arguing or his most ardent haters. No way to walk this line for another entire year.

I think most any reasonable person would agree with that. We should see the offense improve markedly with the infusion of talent on the offensive line. I would expect to see something close to the 49ers Alex Smith. If not, that's a problem.

And I wasn't talking about those, either

Like LeBron and Kobe, I look forward to you pretending your stance on Wilson never existed in 3 years from now

10-12 in his last 22

Compared to 0-177,035

I don't know, man ... He had that one 20 post streak back in '09 where he was only half a dipshit

if you build a good forum around him, he'll consistently troll n00bs

A perfect fit considering the the op.

Wasnt this the logical conclusion all along?

I used to like clay as a poster but the trolling is tired, lame and old. He's actually one of my least 5 favorites now. He's a good guy though

Finally some sanity.

Alex is no ones Dreamboat, no 10 year stalwart...

But to deny this overall roster is to be Goddamn FOOL.

It's sad to see another good September 2005 guy go. Simply Red, FAX and you...

If I'm being honest though, you probably just burned yourself out. While I appreciate your candid nature and well thought out responses, you were also kind of a dick. Your opinion was always right and you think you're smarter than everyone else. Enjoy the antifreeze.

Absolutely.

I have no problem with you or Clay as people.

Someday, you and I will go out an tear it up, shot for shot, drink for drink, beer for beer, eat a giant breakfast and Uber it back to base.

I'd be more than happy to buy Clay a Jamba Juice and a lap dance, too.

Oh you like QBR right?

How about the fact that he had a 53 QB that post season? His first two games he had a 25.9 and 38.9 QBR.

But yeah, greatness.


And what do you mean I pretend my stance never existed on Lebron and Kobe? When did I ever do that? 3 years ago I thought Kobe was better than LeBron. Now I think the opposite. Sports opinions on active players can't change after 3 years?

You're always 3 years late, bud. I'm sure that'll be your stance when Wilson is considered one of the faces of the NFL

"Well gee, 3 years ago he wasn't good and now he is! By golly!"

When have I said that he doesn't have the potential to be great? Link me to a post.

Lmao

Haha

So now you're hedging all bets. Kudos, king. Pussy per usual.

I'm really confused now. So the fact that I think he's mere very good (not elite like you say ) now and has the potential to be great later makes me a pussy?

So I have to label a player elite or bust after their 3rd year or I'm a pussy? I can't say they're good and ascending? You have the weirdest sports fan rules.

This should really be the standard template for people who start "Leaving Forever" threads.

Start with these words, and then maybe branch out if you want to... but this seems to be a good enough, standard reply.

I'll admit I've never understood these threads. I've "left" a number of times. I just take a break, then come back when I cool down a bit.

To each his own. :shrug:

EDIT: I've clearly missed a lot in this thread. Carry on.

This thread pretty much sums up Chiefsplanet.

A "Leaving forever" thread becomes an Alex Smith thread, a head coach bash and defend thread, a "Hey, buddy" thread, a Clay trolling thread, and a "Look at me, I'm Hootie!" thread.

LMAO


About the only thing missing is a Rain Man poll.

It's a special kind of stupid here.

It's home.

Rain Man should make a poll of ALL posters in a 10 round heat or how ever many it takes to end up with the one should make a "Leaving Forever" thread.


Brilliant :toast:

I agree with the belief that this team can win a advance to, and win a SB with Smith, but I can not agree that the 9ers were just a muffed punt away from a SB.

It still comes down to making plays.

Alex Smith did not make plays against that Giant defense, while Eli Manning made 2 huge plays against that 9er defense.

If Smith makes just one or two plays, just converts one meaningful 3rd down play in that game, the 9ers win, and Williams never gets an opportunity to muff that punt.

You really are a stupid asshole. Perfect for this forum. :doh!:

100%

Alex Smith was the reason they lost that game, 100%

...and I like Alex.

As they were punting, I even thought, "meh, it's not like the 49ers are gonna move the ball or anything"

Here's the problem.

I struggle to believe that Kush was left on the bench because the staff sees him as center prospect only.

Okay, I lied, I don't struggle to believe it, I think it's an out and out lie.

I fully expect Kush to suck balls as much at center as McGlynn did at guard.
Add to that the evidence to suggest that Grubbs has begun his downward spiral, and that Allen has sucked, and that we have no idea what to expect Stephenson, or any of the other bodies that we are throwing out there, then there is reason to believe that there is no improvement on the line.

Maclin is a perfect fit for Smith, so that is assuredly an upgrade in this system, with Smith from Bowe.
Beyond Maclin, there are still nothing more than questions at WR.

The defense with DJ and DeVito returning is almost certainly going to improve against the run, and the pass defense will also almost certainly be improved.

But, at the end of the day, the defense wasn't really an issue last year, so the questions on offense are the ones that will have to be resolved to see this team improve.

Regardless of Wilson's "exceedingly mediocre performance", Wilson has consistently stepped up and made plays in clutch situations.

Alex Smith hasn't.

All your evidence is just hope.

All my evidence for why I won't wake up tomorrow with a palm tree growing out of my asshole is just hope

What's the over/under?

This is where I'm at with Kush.
With the struggles we had along the line last year there is no way he wouldn't have seen action if they thought the could contribute.
I don't expect anything out of him, at all.
O-line is a big concern for me, honestly. I just can't get past it, but feel that if there is significant improvement there we are going to be a greatly improved team.

Dumbass.

I'm optimistic as **** about this year. I just think that could well be the hiccup to our season. 7 home games this year is rough. We are playing a team that just went to England last season and experienced all of that and it will be foreign to us. I still think we can make a deep run, that's just bigger than people give it credit for imo.

You guys? Please don't lump me in with a group. I'm incredibly optimistic this year, and love the direction the team is heading. I'm excited to see what Alex can accomplish his 3rd season in the same scheme with the same coaches. Good coaches.

And as much as I love the home games at the end, they have the potential to not matter. If they do? It could be a magical ****ing season. I'm nowhere near Hater status Bro. I'm excited as **** about this year, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Rightfully so.

I have always owned my assholery, and am proud of it.

But no matter how you want to spin it, just a play here or there from Alex Smith, a meaningful 3rd down conversion here or there wins that game.

Honestly, that's the only reason this site has a single view.

This team and it's management are total $3it and have been for MULTIPLE DECADES.

Marty and Carl failed in a number of ways but at lest they wanted to win...

OTP...sometimes taking a LONG break from this place is good.

It took a real serious health issue to right size my time here...and to start to pick what I read and what I just what threads I stay away from.

Now I glide in to read the threads that pique my interest (mostly duncan's takes in the MU threads or the occasional funny threads to give me a break from a painful work day) and then around August I start reading the football threads. (Check that...I read it as much in the weeks leading up to the draft)

It makes the board a little more tolerable...

This has been a reasonable discussion.

But this is a stupid ****ing post, and makes me wonder what kind of ****ing moron you really are.