Awesome to hear OTWP. Some of the guys I play with alot won some tickets last year and went on Wednesday, said it was awesome.

I went to the range in between administering two finals this morning. Had a really productive session and figured out a few things:

1) Most of my problems were not actually related to my swing plane, but a sway that I developed in an attempt to alter the plane. As many of you know, any time you sway disaster strikes, and it struck for me.

2) I wasn't properly wrapping the pad of my left hand around the grip, which was allowing for the club to move around too much in the swing. Once I changed that I started roasting the ball.

Apparently Phil showed up un-announced at Callaway HQ today and let every single person in the building hold the Claret Jug.

Classy.

thats badass.

Read an article that hes only taking home around 500k from the original winnings due to england and cal taxes.

Sportscenter quoted 820k from the Open and Scottish Open combined. From an original total of 2.1 mil. Bones is probably taking another 100-200k from that as well.

I bet he takes home more than that, though, b/c he can expense his plane, accommodations, and possibly the caddie and teacher salary, since he had a session with Butch.

Step 2 is crucial. I practice balancing the club with just the pad of the palm and pointer finger.

Does anyone here ever use a driving iron?

I've been toying with the idea of putting a Ping Eye 2 1 iron in play. I have a TT Black Gold uncut 3-iron shaft that I was thinking about hard-stepping twice. Maybe I just watched too much Open coverage.

I played a Titleist 695 CB 2 iron (or atleast tried to) for a while, then made the move to one of the Titleist hybrids.

Playing here in America, our style of golf, I don't think it's a great idea. Hybrids are just too easy and too workable.

Mid-Missouri has some of the hardest clay soil around. The course I play has zoysia fairways, but you can still get some ridiculous run out, especially in this weather.

I currently have the following options for my hybrid/long iron slot:

Eye 2 1 iron
I20 17* hybrid
I20 20* hybrid
G20 5 Wood
Big Bertha Warbird 7 wood

Although an underrated long iron replacement that is more long iron than hybrid was the G2HL series that Ping made. I was thinking about trying out a G2HL 2 iron, but they aren't easy to find in acceptable condition.

Just because of the way courses are designed it's tougher to play them here, with the hilly ness we have.

Also I'm starting to lean more hybrid solely because of their versatility. A driving iron, you might hit what, 4 times per round? You can hit hybrids so many different ways and in so many different occasions.

I carry a 2 iron hybrid that I can carry about 240 to 250, so I hit it alot. But of course, I dont' play enough to play a driving iron right now.

I think they have some benefit, but for me right now, it just doesn't outweigh the positives of a hybrid.

No, but I have pulled my driver out of the bag and replaced it with a 13.5* X-Hot Pro 3W. Much more accurate with it, and it's longer than my driver.

If anyone is interested in an 8.5* Nike VR-S Driver with a ion-plated Diamana Ahina shaft, let me know.

A driving iron is often better for punch shots than a hybrid, which I often find myself needing to hit.

Another shot that's worth trying, if you're interested: 5 wood chop from the rough. I do this sometimes when I'm in the rough on a par 5 and have a little bit of a dicey lie. I put about 2/3 of my weight on the front foot, hinge my wrists quickly, and slam the head into the ball of the ball. Thing runs forever.

Longer? Nice. I've heard people just gush over the X-Hots off the tee. Obviously, Phil is a fan.

My TEE XCG-4 3 wood is an absolute rocket when I catch it flush, but the head is so damned big I rarely pull it from the fairway.

I'd like a titanium-faced 3 wood with a slightly smaller profile to use as a safe driver and to pound into the long par 5s.

Stack and tilt that shit bro.


It is much easier to hit punch shots with a driving iron. I used to do it all the time with the 2 iron, but **** me, in the summer, it just goes and goes.

I mainly deloft a 3 iron to hit punch shots now when I need to.

I'm actually thinking about taking 3 wood out of the bag and just going with driver and a hybrid, and adding another wedge. I go 48, 54, 60 right now, but am debating adding a 52 and going 56

I've heard good things about the Taylor Made stuff, but personally can't get over the white head.


What you just said is a reason I've always been a big Titleist wood fan, in that they make the heads fairly small.

I've played four wedges almost the whole time I've played golf.

Pretty much always carried

Driver
3 wood
Hybrid
4I-W
Gap, Sand, Lob

I had bought a X-Hot Pro 17* 4W earlier in the season, and it was around 10 yards short of driver. I'm erratic as all **** with driver, so I waited until I could get a deal on a new 13.5. It's a goddamn missle launcher.

Bag as of today:

13.5* X-Hot Pro 3-wood
17* X-Hot Pro 4-wood
20* X-Hot Pro Hybrid

JPX 800 Pro 5-PW

Scratch 8620 Wedges 49-53-58

2012 Cameron California Series Monterrey putter

Srixon Z-Star XV.

Very pleased with my setup right now.

I don't want a super small head. It's a delicate balance. My previous 3 wood was an i15, which was great off the deck but worthless off the tee. Before that I had a Sonartec NP-99, and it was too difficult for me to consistently center.

I like having the 54 in that it's basically a good mix between a gap and sand, plus I play one with a pretty high bounce for wet lies and dry fluffy sand and a low bounce lob wedge for wet sand and dry lies.

How do you like those wedges?

The 52 I carry is high bounce. The other two wedges are 56.08 and 60.06. Super tight lies here and what little sand there is around is more concrete than sand.

LOVE them.

I had played Vokey's since I was a teenager. These are better. I like the smaller profile, and they produce just as much spin without ripping the cover off the ball.

It varies here in KC, and back home in South central MO it's more like you seem to play so they work well, or well enough.

It's a little old fashioned of me, but I like shotmaking and I sometimes feel technology has taken that out of the game, so I guess it's my homage to the game to only play 3 wedges.

I know not to hit driver on the last hole. I know to pull out a 7 iron and put it in the fairway. Today the blues were moved waaay over and there was plenty of room to get past the tree and drive the green. An eagle put is a sure thing with a solid straight drive.

Tree wins

Should have went 7 iron.

It takes a lot of gusto to not try the driver

I would have gone for it in that situation too. If you are playing recreationally, why not go for it? If you eagle that hole you have a memory that will last far longer than a shitload of pars.

An example:

A while back I was playing a massively long par 3. I hit a huge flare to the right and ended up 25 yards short of the green with a huge evergreen tree blocking me.

I delofted a 4-iron by about 15 degrees, then smashed a chip. It went underneath the low-hanging limbs (which were a foot off the ground), ran up through the heavy grass, and settled about 10 feet away on the fringe.

I missed the putt and made bogey, but what the hell? Sure, I brought quad into the equation, but I also got myself a shot at a par on a damned hard hole in a round that meant nothing.

I've always been so damn competitive, even with myself, that after playing competitive golf thru junior golf, high school golf, and college golf I just couldn't play that way. I had to take some time off as golf just ground me down to much and I was taking it so seriously.


I still do when we're playing matches, etc, but in fun rounds, it's more fun to just try shots.

I am relentlessly competitive, but I will always go for the shot to make the lowest possible score, even though it wouldn't give me the lowest score per 100 attempts.

For me, it's all about knowing when I actually have the ABILITY to hit said shot. For instance, I can hit a draw (I hate it coming off the face, and I hate the way it looks, actually I hate the draw period) but I know I can't hit a high draw with a 3 iron to a back left pin, so I rarely will try it.

<--- In that case, this idiot would say "**** it" and hit a cut to the draw pin.

Oh I've done it, but for said certain shot, I have to start the 3 iron out of bounds to get to the hole location.


And thats not usually something I like to do.

Hybrid or a good 5 wood, 1 irons are a thing of the past. I have a 1 iron which I jack with at the range sometimes just to make sure I can hit it, but it goes a lot lower and doesn't land nearly as nice on greens as a 5 wood. 1 iron you have to kind of run it to the green, at least fast greens.

Though if you play where it is windy a lot, a 1 iron might be the magic weapon.

I was 1 over on my round and thanks to that tree left with a 6.

I just had to go for it. I believe that is called the mickelson syndrome

I keep a 2 iron and when I hit it square it goes a long way. I can't imagine a 1 iron. It would have the same loft as a putter.

Also I have heard that if it is lightning outside on the course you should hold up your 1 iron because even God can't hit a 1 iron LMAO

Lofts vary on 1 irons. Old school 1 irons are going to have less loft than 1 irons made in the last 25 years.

I know Trevino said that quote but not sure if it originated with him. It is BS though as Trevino was 'the' best iron player Butch Harmon ever saw, and I don't see how the best iron player would have trouble with a 1 iron.

To me a 1 iron says wind and would not be something I'd have in the bag with regularity.

On Golf
Mickelson’s Victory Reignites Rivalry With Woods http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpgPhil Mickelson rose to No. 2 in the world rankings after his victory at the British Open.
By KAREN CROUSE
Published: July 22, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/sp...ht-open23.html

Do you guys think that if Tiger gets #15, the rest will come much easier?

This headline, claiming that it will reignite a rivalry, rejuvenates Tiger...how?

If he regains confidence with the putter then he'll cruise to 20 irrespective of the driver, but sometimes when putting goes it never really comes back (Tom Watson).

Honestly, as much as people talk about Tiger off the tee and on the green, he's not the same anywhere. He's 80% the player who he was before, and that's still good enough to win a lot of tournaments and majors, but he isn't good enough to lay back, play the par 3s and 4s even par and the par 5s at -12 anymore.

He's #1 on the PGA Tour in scoring average. He's also #1 in total putting and #4 in strokes gained putting. Have no idea what you're basing your opinions on.

Watching him muck around **** up on the greens at every major this year.

He's not #1 in putting, Phil is. Tiger is #14 in Putts/GIR and 54th in total putting.

Quit lying.

They'll have more. The average loft on irons has been strengthened by about 3-4* over the last 25 years. Your dad's 1 is your 2.

Sure! I can help!

Total Putting
Select Year: 2013 2012 2011 2010 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001
Y-T-D statistics through: The Open Championship Jul 21, 2013
Rank
This
Week Rank
Last
Week Player Events Total
1 1 Tiger Woods 10 58.6
2 2 Greg Chalmers 20 59.8
3 3 Peter Hanson 12 70.4
4 4 Bryce Molder 19 70.6
5 5 David Hearn 21 71.1
6 6 Stephen Ames 17 72.3
7 7 Luke Donald 10 75.8
8 8 Aaron Watkins 16 81.6
9 11 Billy Horschel 19 89.6
10 9 Russell Henley 19 90.8 http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02428.html

Putts per round is an actual measurement of the number of putts someone takes when they play golf:

54th

Putts/GIR is still the de facto standard for putting.

http://espn.go.com/golf/statistics/_.../type/expanded

14th

Total putting doesn't actually measure how many strokes a player takes on a green they hit, nor how many strokes they take per round.

Total putts is meaningless, it's skewed by your approach shot proximity to the hole. Hitting it tight results in fewer putts by definition. Doesn't mean you putted well.


Here's the best measurement of putting, Sabermetrics geeks like you & I should like this: http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/st...-pga-tour-stat

I agree that strokes gained is a good metric, but it is not the "Total Putting" stat. Furthermore, only a buffoon could watch the majors and say with a straight face that Tiger's putting is not a problem. It obviously is, regardless of what he does at Doral.

What's Tiger's Fairways and Greens percentage compared to the field...I think these are the best indicators

Maybe he needs another lesson with Stricker.

His driving accuracy is 57th, but he hits driver significantly less often than do other pros. He's 35th in GIR.

I was under the understanding that lofts have been weakened over the years, like old school 4 irons are our 3 irons, so forth. Thought I read that somewhere.

Researched this and found that Ben Hogan's 1 iron had more loft than today's 1 irons. The messageboard even had a debate of whether Hogan would be as effective with a modern 1 iron. Idiots.

Yeah, if Tiger can get the driver back in gear again, I think he is undoubtedly the best in the game. Seems lately, and I mean the last 5 years or so, he has been pretty crappy with the big stick. Always having to scramble and make heroic shots from the rough or in the trees, this will bite your ass in the big tournaments.

I would almost like to see him go back to the driver he used in 2000, wonder if he still has it? I think it was a steel shaft Titleist, 6.5 degree. He hit that thing like 320 easy.

He used a Titleist 975D 7.5* w/ a DGX100 shaft.

He's crappy with the driver because he doesn't have the fast twitch speed he once did. More specifically, the Haney swing ruined his driver, as he got way too laid off at the top. He's better with it than he once was, but now he has a dual miss instead of just blowing everything 60 yards right.

He gets so steep with the driver and it gets stuck behind him, so he's either going to snap hook it left or blast it right.


He's trying to change it, but it's taking a while.

And FWIW, Hank Haney is an awful golf swing coach.

Old school four irons are our six irons.

Think about it this way: how do you think equipment manufacturers keep getting longer and longer distances out of their irons every year, especially TM? They don't do it via much innovation in the cavity backed iron, but by strengthening the loft.

Ping's Eye 2s, for example, had a 36* 7 iron. The G15s were 32* for the same club.

He's always gotten stuck. He even got stuck w/ Butch. One of his problems is that he doesn't have the hand speed to fix the face at impact anymore.

One thing I'll never understand, O'Meara aside, is how he was dumb enough to take on Haney as a coach. Haney literally quit playing golf because he had the driver yips.

Hell, have any of his players on his show actually gotten better because of what he's taught them? I imagine they are better golfers, but I'd bet it's due to practicing a lot rather than anything his dumb ass has taught them.

Thats why, IIRC, he made the swing changes early after winning the Masters in 97. He used his hands to control the clubface (which is a terrible idea, btw) and his distance control was awful.


I still concede that leaving Butch was the biggest mistake he has ever made.

Tiger used to make up shots on the field around the green, and now he gives them away in the big tournaments. That plus being conservative at the tee is really giving him no margin for error. I think if he gets one, he will get it rolling to the record. Going to be interesting how long that takes though.

Golf has a lot of balance now, with different guys winning each major. Different guys that are legit players, not just one-shot wonders. With guys like Rose and Scott confident in majors, it's just going to get harder. If other guys like Mahan, Westwood, and Donald step up in the big ones that's even more to deal with.

Tiger's swing when he first came out on tour was the exact opposite of Haney's swing. He was a shut-face player at the top with an upright swing who played a power draw. He was able to work the ball both ways when Butch moved him to more of an on-plane swing with a square face.

Haney had him laid off and wide open, and he came into the ball way under plane, hitting those huge pushes.

His distance control wasn't as good with his 2000 era swing, but the swing he won the '97 Masters with was a marvel in its own right.

Tiger still has an all time great short game, but he does have that one shot that gets him it seems.

I think the distance thing is hurting him now. He used to be able to hit it so much farther than everyone it made the game a little unfair. Like Hamas said, he could jsut play everything but par 5's at E and still win tournaments.

He makes mistakes around the green he never used to make. His sand play has been average at best during the big tournaments, and he is missing the big short putts that he made in his sleep.

He does seem to have gotten his draw back a little, so being able to play different shots should help. He just needs to get out of his own way on the stuff around the greens that used to make him unbeatable. Right now, its just a matter of when the bad short putt is coming, not if.

Butch had him square all the way through, which was beautiful. Then Haney got him trying to take out the left side for some dumbshit reason.

This swing was from '98, after the rebuild started. He's not as on-plane as he was in 2000 (note the higher hands and how the shaft appears to be slightly across the line), but this was his most powerful swing:

http://mygolfandlife.files.wordpress...iger-woods.jpg

Not to get off track, but did you see Tom Rindaldi try to repeat the quote you have in your sig to Phil after he won? He butchered it.

IMO, Haney had Tiger get more length in the backswing, which maybe was due to the knee/foot problems. I don't know, but it was dumb.

His best days were when he could get a full shoulder turn and limit hip turn.

Rinaldi, you're a millionare, get your ****ing teeth fixed.

LMAOLMAO

Tiger caused a lot of those problems himself with that stupid ass knee snap he'd do for extra distance. Ironically enough, the swing he came out on tour with would have been the one that aged the best--body wise.

Case in point, get back to Harmon as quick as possible.

The steel shaft would give him more accuracy I think, his athleticism is still there don't doubt for a second. Not a huge Tiger fan anymore after 09, but for some reason I like to see him do well in tourneys. Probably because he is American and it seems like foreigners are winning all the majors now. *I know Mickelson just won the British.

Tiger is 20th in total driving on the Tour, and his average drive is the same as it's been the past 15 years. I don't know where these wild assertions are coming from - let's start using the actual data if possible since we do have it.

Didn't see anyone say he doesn't hit it as far as he used to or always has.

But now nearly everyone hits it as long as he does, or there isn't that monster distance between him and everyone, like there once was.

Distance was a differing factor for him, it isn't anymore.

That is correct. I'm referring to the fact he's still 20th in total driving. If you're top-20 in driving you're going to be just fine on Tour.

You're a moron.

The average driving distance on the PGA Tour is 287 yards.

In 2000, that would have put you at 7th in driving distance.

Phil Mickelson averaged 289 yards from the tee when he was 30. When he was 40 he averaged 299.

Tiger averaged 298 off the tee in 2000. He averages 291.8 this year.

So, despite 13 years of massive increases in equipment technology that made the average drive on tour in 2013 a top 10 drive in 2000, and the fact that Tiger went from #2 in driving distance to #63, he has no issues with driving the golf ball.

Oh, and how's this for you: he hits 10% fewer fairways than he did in 2000 too.

So, he's lost ten yards off the tee when everyone else has picked up 15, and he hits the fairway 1/6 less often, but these are wild assertions.

Just don't post. Ever. You are wrong about everything.

Now you know how we feel in the Royals and KU threads

None of your bluster changes the Tour stat that shows he's 20th in total driving. Just like your bluster about his "putting woes" was also completely shredded by the actual putting data. You're just pissed I'm calling out your nonsense.


You're not stupid. You've shown you do understand baseball sabermetrics. So please do us a favor and stop tossing out your incorrect "scout's opinion" on what's wrong with Tiger because you dont' know your ass from a hole in a ground. The stats prove both of your takes were dead ass wrong.

It's not a scout's opinion. He hits the ball shorter and he hits the fairway less often. I don't know how more simple it could be.

Your problem is that you don't understand the statistics that you use. You assume that Total Driving is a useful metric. Someone like Tiger can be outside of the Top 50 in both categories yet rank in the top 20. It's a stat that rewards mediocrity rather than identifying excellence. There is nothing sabermetric or analytic about Total Driving. It adds his total rank in the two categories and assumes that they are equal. They aren't. Distance is more important than accuracy on the tour. Moreover, the stat can be easily gamed.

Let's say that someone wanted to hit a hybrid off of every tee. Most pros would hit the fairway 90% of the time. That would rank you #1 in driving accuracy. You'd be last in distance.

Your total rank would be 191. That would make you 97th in total driving, essentially right in the middle. That's the very definition of a flawed stat.

You're using RBI when you think you're using wOBA.

I think I will get 18 in today.

Distance and accuracy are about equal in terms of importance for driving effectivness. And driving is not as important as GIR or putting:
http://www.thesportjournal.org/artic...hampions-tours



I've listed a comparison between PGA Tour ranks for Tiger 07 (dominant) and Tiger 13 (still very good). This is very interesting:



Driving2007 2013
Distance 12 63
Accuracy 152 58
Total 45 20

Approach
50-125 4 37
150-200 1 75
>200 2 26

Putting
Gained 3 4
Overall 14 1


Scrambling 20 118

Distance and accuracy, on tour, aren't the same. The length they play makes distance more important, especially with technology that allows you to play out of the rough these days (groove technology, ball design, etc).

Thats not to say that accuracy isnt' important, it is. But the tour has become much more "bomb and gouge" than it ever has been.

Like Hamas said as well, theres an obvious reason for Tigers numbers in regard to distance and accuracy, in that he hits way more 3 woods and hybrids than he does drivers, thus loosing distance but gaining accuracy.

It also shows in his approach in that he's having to hit more shots from farther away with longer clubs, making him less accurate.