You can thank stupid ****s Lance Lynn and Rosenthal for that.

It was amazing that once rosenthal started throwing other than fastballs, he got guys out

This is one of the worst strike zones I've ever seen.

How many extra inning games are we going to play this year?

What a joke that was

Siegrist may have to pitch 5 innings.

Finish it this inning

Please **** Holliday, just hit a goddamned flyball to the outfield. That's all I ask for is a goddamned 300 foot flyball.

Thank god he didn't bunt

Here comes the DP.

This is how I feel right now:

http://youtu.be/QMjlcoeRgGw?t=47s

Dumb **** trying to be the hero loses all discipline of the zone. Guy has thrown 5 straight balls in this AB.

Woohoo

Had to win that one

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fcwIEupH7UU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Holy shit cue the video!

Whoo hoo. 2 of 3, it was ugly but a win is a win is a win.

Now we can't go to Chicago and lay an egg

Against those annoying bastards, I'll take anything.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

**** the butt Pirates.

Now we can't go get swept in chicago or lose 2 of 3

The Cardinals had more walk off wins in this series than they did all season up to that point.

Mind=blown

:hmmm:

Maybe the spark this team needs?

@dgoold: This is happening. #Cardinals mum RT @HawaiiAthletics Former #HawaiiBSB Rainbow Kolten Wong called up by the Cardinals.

He was coming up in two weeks anyway. I wonder how they are planning on using him? Does Carpenter start playing more at third while Freese sits?

Surely they aren't so desperate that they force him to learn SS at the ML level.

They ain't bringing him up for a bat off the bench.

It's either playing 2nd and batting 2nd(eventually) or making him learn SS on the fly at the major league level (highly doubtful and foolish)

Has to be Freese is going to sit more often. Carp moves over or Molina plays 3rd and rests his knees?

Why are we still chasing David Freese with pitchforks?

Y'all are aware that he's had a really good August, yes?

Honestly, the only rationale I can see for this is that they're moving Descalso to SS for the remainder of the year and Wong ends up as the backup 2b with Danny D moving over.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking because I cannot handle another AB from Pete Kozma. I've never seen someone give so many terrible ABs. It's not even the results, his approach is just miserable. He's clearly a raw guess hitter and would do a better job of guessing if he flipped a coin.

He is still in the lineup regularly because of 2011.

This offense needs help. I think the Cardinals have a better offense and defense with Wong in the lineup than Freese.

I will always love Freese for 2011. But, he is just not producing. He is dragging the team down.

Freese has actually been about 10% above league average at the plate this year. The biggest issue with him is his absolutely atrocious defense.

Wong will not be a better hitter than Freese, and Descalso at short makes this the worst defensive team in the league, but it's still a move that absolutely has to happen. Kozma just cannot be allowed to play anymore.

It also allows you this option:

If you want to insert a defensive replacement for Freese late in the game you can shift Carpenter to third and put Wong in at second, keeping Descalso at SS.

This team was kneecapped by two Kozma ABs late in the game.

And DJ is right--he's a complete guess hitter, like Rick Ankiel. The only difference is he has absolutely no power. If Ankiel guessed right the ball was getting hit with authority. If Kozma guesses right it's a hard grounder to short.

This was just a huge series that I'm really not sure how we won. We were a hairs length from being 6 games out of this thing.

What?

Again, in August he's had a .400+ OBP, a .900+ OPS and has already had as many doubles this month than he had in any month up to this season. He's dragging this team down? Like hell - black holes like Pete Kozma and untimely slumps from throughout the order have been the cause of our offensive decline. Also a problem is that nobody on the team is hitting HRs; it's not just Freese. With zero speed and sub-par power, it's just hard to put crooked numbers up with any regularity.

Getting beyond just this month, In 2012 he had an .840 OPS and again a very good .370 OBP for the entire season.

He's still in the lineup because he was a good player with a great post-season in 2011 that then improved on his 2011 season with a very good 2012. He's still in the lineup because even in a year where he's struggled to hit the ball with authority, he's managed a strong .350 OBP.

I'd be shocked if Wong was a comparable offensive player. Moreover, Carpenter's a pretty cruddy defender in his own right at 3b. Moving him to 3b mid-season (thus shifting him down the defensive spectrum) is just not what a winning team does.

Hamas is right though - his defense has gone from adequate to flout out abysmal this year. But the kid's a solid offensive player. And in the end, he's been playing very well of late. We've seen him perform when the lights were brightest. We've seen him perform over a full season. We know that the skills are there and right as he's starting to come around, you folks are looking to bury him.

Like trying to hammer Rosenthal into the 9th, folks have been looking to supplant Freese with Wong all season and it just doesn't make sense.

For further example, look at Holliday. He struggled mightily for the first 1/2 of the year but ultimately the skills re-surfaced and he's been among the best players in the NL since the AS break.

Freese will do the same. Players usually play to the back of their baseball card until the skills erode. I don't think Freese's skills have eroded. He, much like Holliday, seems to finally be finding his groove a little bit. I don't think the power will come back because I don't think he can get the leg drive off that bad ankle, but he's still a solid hitter with a good approach and strong nerves. It's too early to bury him

Freese starts driving it to right center, I think the power will be back. Thats where his power has always been.

But if the ankles are gone, he's probably never going to be much of a power guy again (though he never really was).

I can see Wong getting some starts at short just to make sure he gets in the lineup. I don't think they completely shut down Freese. They may think giving him more rest will revive him. If Freese is in and Carpenter at second, they might put Wong at short so he can get at bats.

He had 20 HR power. That's good pop from a third baseman.

I'd probably apply Occam's Razor to Freese. If his defense is eroding, and one of the largest components of infield defense is lateral movement, what does that say?

What joint controls lateral movement? The ankle. If his ankles are bad in the field they aren't going to be better at the plate, which means that his power is probably gone. He went from hitting 415 foot shots to the opposite field to 380.

I don't think that's just a luck issue.

I don't think he's ever played a single professional inning at short.

Carp at 3rd Wong starting at 2nd hitting 6th

Wellll it seems that Matheny and Mo disagree with your opinion.

Yeah, Matheny's sure shown a hell of a pulse for personnel, hasn't he?

BRC is a ball washing clown.

Westbrook is worthless.

Release that pos now. Ive never disliked a player so much

He's done. Just because he is not Kozma bad doesn't mean he should stay in the lineup.

Holliday is up and down and can be streaky but he always ends up hitting .300/20/100 for years. Now, age may be catching up to him and those numbers will decline. We have to pay Holiday for another 3 years. Freese is in decline and he ain't coming back. And we don't owe him another year.

This is not a thread where we hurl personal insults. If you can't refrain from following this unwritten rule, then stay out of the thread.

How can Wacha or Martinez not be a better option than Westbrook?

1 hit. Through 5 innings. Off of a ****ing bum the Orioles couldn't wait to dump. **** you, baseball.

Ya I would like to see Wacha there and only have Jake pitch in blowouts. And why do we always make the Cubs look like a competent ball club? Everyone else always crushes these guys but not the Cards.

JFC its like the Cards are the only team the Cubs can beat.

Shut out with 2 ****ing hits through 7 innings. By a ****ing bum.

Arrieta has all the tools. Once in a while he gets his shit together, and it stays together all day. Guess today is one of those.

He was really scheduled to implode around the 5th, though.

Well said to bad for him it's like once a year.

Westbrook sucks so bad it spreads to the rest of the team. At least that is what Im gonna with today.

The ****ing Cubs, really?

This team is absolutely loaded with holes:

1) Westbrook cannot be allowed to start another game. He's hot garbage. Martinez or Wacha need to take that spot.

2) Kelly can only face 18 batters a game. He can navigate the lineup two times with effectiveness, but as soon as the pitcher hits for the second time Matheny needs to have a hair trigger on the bullpen phone.

3) The lack of power dooms them in almost every game where they fall down by multiple runs, and as the game goes on, the players, save Carpenter, lose their ability to work counts.

This has become a team of opposite-field slap hitters. The hitting approach needs to change, because pitchers are not afraid to go inside on anyone, as they know the hitters will let it get deep on them. Worst case scenario is a jam shot to right.

Took me a while but I am on the Matheny is an idiot bandwagon.

Unless Molina's knee was sore, WTF sit him after 1 game when you know Westbrook struggles and especially on the road? He needed all the help he can get and Johnson cost us several runs by himself.

I mean are we really going to go from no rest for Molina to resting him every other day now?

Travis Wood has faced 6 hitters. Five of them took 11 pitches total. Yadi took 11.

he just got off the dl bro why wouldnt they give him some extra rest?

Holy balls were out to a lead

Dude come on man.....:shake:

We made the mistake of playing him too much to fast when he came back last time. Molina isn't the issue with this team. If some of the other parts get their shit together, we will need a healthy Molina to stand a chance in hell of winning a game in the playoffs.

They are wanting to keep Wacha's inning total down. Why not pitch Kelly 6 innings and then let Wacha pitch the rest of the way. Rest the bullpen every 5th day?
Agree here too. Is it not obvious that the approach at the plate needs to change? They are killing us inside as a team. It just keeps happening and no change in approach. Has anyone heard anything about the coaches changing the approach at the plate?

Molina should only play about 7/10 games behind the plate. If they want to give him an occasional start at first to keep his bat in the lineup that's fine, but his knees could use the rest.

I understand keeping Wacha's innings down, but someone has to replace Westbrook. He said he felt great yesterday and threw the ball like absolute shit. I don't trust Lyons to do it. Wacha is the most sensible alternative. He's only at 110 innings for the year between AAA and the bigs. Westbrook should have about eight starts left. Give six of them to Wacha and two more to Martinez. That would put Wacha at about 150 innings for the year. By no means is that excessive wear.

Joe ****ing Kelly. Touché to you.


Instead of a guy like Westbrook to eat innings next year, I'd let Lynn and Kelly fight out for that 4/5 spot, depending on Wacha, baby Pedro, and miller

Just for the sake of posterity:

Kelly has struck out about 40% fewer batters as a starter than as a reliever, yet has walked more.

I would urge a bit of caution with him. He was better than he showed as a reliever, but he's been really lucky as a starter.

Sure, but he's also faced more.


I'd just rather have a guy with that stuff eat innings, instead of another westbrook

I'm not sure what you're getting at. He's striking out 4.73/9 as a starter compared to 7.96/9 as a reliever. He's walking 3.60/9 as a starter compared to 2.84/9 as a reliever. He throws 59% of his pitches for strikes as a starter compared to 63.8% as a reliever.

We're still dealing with small sample sizes here, but the numbers suggest that this run he's on is almost all luck and she should start pitching like a guy with a 4.50 ERA pretty soon.

Westbrook scheduled to start Wednesday. Except for giving up a nearly infinite amount runs in the first inning, Matheny thinks he has looked great the rest of the way.

Just saying as a starter he's having to face more hitters and seeing hitters multiple times. I'd just rather a guy with his stuff be a 5th starter than an old innings eater

I despise Westbrook, and you're right that Kelly is a better option, but the peripherals suggest it's a smaller spread than we probably believe.

That's probably true.


Fwiw, I'd just much rather roll out Kelly than paying for a bottom of the rotation pitcher. If we were to fa spend, get something else

They should let him pitch batting practice before the game. Shake those first inning jitters and make our hitters feel like rock stars at the same time. :D

Wind blowing in from right, Wong hit it hard looked like the wind killed it, dumbs hit cubs cf misplayed it

Holliday with the hardest hit 0-4 we've seen in a while

Yeah!!!

Cards win, good series win, had to have that one.

Back within a game.

Wong hit 3 balls hard today and a couple his first game.

I don't agree with pinch hitting Descalso here. Sure, he can replace Kozma, but you could double switch and accomplish a similar objective. Why not double switch and pinch hit Adams?

Thank tits. We just got one back that the shift took away from us last week.