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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.*** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296)

kcpasco 12-08-2015 10:47 AM
Cash to sign Heyward I assume?

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11938705)
Pretty solid addition for the Cards. Get a super utility guy and can give the team options through out the year. Should keep Peralta rested more. Give Carpenter a blow and Wong a shot in the ass.
And with 3 guys that could now take Adams job (Moss, Piscotty and Carpenter if Gyorko plays 3b), it creates yet another threat for Adams job.

If that fat shit won't actually dedicate himself to the game at this point, it's never going to happen.

Spurring a little competition on the right side of the infield can only be a good thing. Wong convinced himself he was a HR hitter last season and it dicked his swing up. Hopefully his struggles and the specter of becoming a bench player will get him to stop swinging from his heels.

jd1020 12-08-2015 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcpasco (Post 11938709)
Cash to sign Heyward I assume?
They just took on salary. This doesnt free up money for Heyward.

jd1020 12-08-2015 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raybec 4 (Post 11938708)
With Jay gone, it makes me think they're pretty confident about signing Heyward, OTOH they could just feel really good about kid Randall
I'm not sure how they could feel good about signing anyone at this point. They've missed out on 3 pitchers they were rumored to be going after. Price, Lackey, and Samardzija. It was said that Price was basically packing his bags for St. Louis when his plane took a detour in the final hour.

ChiefsCountry 12-08-2015 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11938640)
I don't think that's a question that you have to answer. I think it's ultimately a question that gets answered for you.

If you have a chance to add an impact corner OFer then Piscotty's long-term home is at 1b. If you can't find that guy but Moss and/or Adams somehow find traction, then Piscotty's long-term home is in LF.

Ideally you'd find a true masher to play 1b and Piscotty's bat profiles as an excellent 2, 3 or 5 hitter in a corner OF. But 1b is a pretty barren market right now (oddly enough). Unless Chris Davis becomes a Cardinal, you have to figure the path of least resistance is Piscotty at 1b for the foreseeable future.
The reason I say that is how do you get his bat in the lineup if you go out and get a first basemen (which is 1b IMO after Heyward) and if you resign Heyward or get a Gordon etc.

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11938722)
The reason I say that is how do you get his bat in the lineup if you go out and get a first basemen (which is 1b IMO after Heyward) and if you resign Heyward or get a Gordon etc.
You put Heyward in CF. If you don't re-sign Heyward, presumably you go after Davis and then Piscotty ends up in RF.

Like I said, Piscotty fills a gap. You don't move pieces around him, you use him to fill in around the pieces.

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 11938714)
They just took on salary. This doesnt free up money for Heyward.
You're really bad at this.

They got at least $7.5 million in the deal and pared another $7 million off the payroll for Jay. They assumed $4 million in immediate salary obligations for Gyorko. So in the short term, they're cash ahead $10 million.

And in the long-term, the cable deal that kicks in in 2017 will cover the rest. This just keeps them from having to detonate the budget before the cable deal covers any remaining increases in payroll.

If you're looking to get a guy off the FA market, backloading your deal is going to hurt you. If you can take the $7 million in cash you just got plus the $3 million in freed up payroll and plow it directly into 2016 salary for Heyward, then yes, you've improved your offer substantially.

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse at this point.

jd1020 12-08-2015 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11938739)
You're really bad at this.

They got at least $7.5 million in the deal and pared another $7 million off the payroll for Jay. They assumed $4 million in immediate salary obligations for Gyorko. So in the short term, they're cash ahead $10 million.

And in the long-term, the cable deal that kicks in in 2017 will cover the rest. This just keeps them from having to detonate the budget before the cable deal covers any remaining increases in payroll.

If you're looking to get a guy off the FA market, backloading your deal is going to hurt you. If you can take the $7 million in cash you just got plus the $3 million in freed up payroll and plow it directly into 2016 salary for Heyward, then yes, you've improved your offer substantially.

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse at this point.
Jay is off the books completely after next season. The Cardinals took on $20 million in salary.

Do you honestly believe the Cardinals need $10 million in payroll just this year to make a $180 million contract fit?

ChiefsCountry 12-08-2015 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11938728)
You put Heyward in CF. If you don't re-sign Heyward, presumably you go after Davis and then Piscotty ends up in RF.

Like I said, Piscotty fills a gap. You don't move pieces around him, you use him to fill in around the pieces.
That makes sense as well.

If you are moving Heyward to center, it would be smarter to go after Upton IMO or Fowler for a cheaper option.

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 11938751)
Jay is off the books completely after next season. The Cardinals took on $20 million in salary.

Do you honestly believe the Cardinals need $10 million in payroll just this year to make a $180 million contract fit?
I don't know the Cardinals budget structure any better than you do.

But I know $10 million isn't going to be ignored for any team. The Cardinals revenues will increase by at least $20 million annually starting in 2018 and DeWitt has never been someone that's willing to just take it in the shorts. If there are moves that can be made to allow the Cardinals to remain profitable in '16 and '17 before that cable money kicks in then yes, it absolutely helps with what the Cardinals are willing/able to do.

Pasta Little Brioni 12-08-2015 01:07 PM
You let heyward walk that's the only smart option..

BigRedChief 12-08-2015 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11938604)
Friggen love this move.

A) It gets Jon Jay gone.

B) Gyorko is 2 seasons removed from being seen as the next Utley. Now his ceiling should be lowered quite a bit due to his horrific sophomore slump but he did experience a slight bounceback last year. If you get him out of that hitter's graveyard, he could easily go back to being a 20 HR hitter w/ the ability to play 3b/2b well. If they were really looking at Zobrist, Gyorko can give them what Zobrist would have with greater upside, less $$ and trades some OBP for some power (which we need more than the OBP anyway).

Just an outstanding move, IMO. If you get a feeler on Wong, you can put him on the block as well now or even move Carpenter over to 1b if the current crop can't get it done.

This creates a lot of roster flexibility and builds some upside back into the roster.
Love this move. Mo gets something that could be for a pain in my fan ass.

Jay has been a pain in my fan ass for a long time. Now we have 4 players gone from the bible study group, JAY, Kozma, Choate and Cruz. That is mighty coincidental.:hmmm:

seclark 12-08-2015 04:21 PM
i don't understand this "bible study group" stuff, brc.
sec

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11939396)
Love this move. Mo gets something that could be for a pain in my fan ass.

Jay has been a pain in my fan ass for a long time. Now we have 4 players gone from the bible study group, JAY, Kozma, Choate and Cruz. That is mighty coincidental.:hmmm:
One of Mozeliak's first 'power' moves was to trade Duncan out from under LaRussa because he was tired of Duncan playing over Ludwick. Since then, he has not been shy about applying the bite collar to his managers. Boggs, Craig, Scrabble, Trevor Miller and I'm sure a few others I'm forgetting.

He'll give Matheny some rope, but if he's staying stubborn, he'll cut his legs out.

This time it wasn't even a bite collar, it was a straight up teeth extraction. It makes me feel a little more comfortable in my hopes that, when the time is right, he'll put the old boy down...

DJ's left nut 12-08-2015 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seclark (Post 11939435)
i don't understand this "bible study group" stuff, brc.
sec
There is a group of Matheny favorites that frequent the team bible study. Matheny's favorites are pretty obvious and it's not at all a coincedence that many of those favorites take part in Matheny's team bible studies during spring training.

The guy's a little league coach trying to manage a big league ballclub.


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