So are you saying you're anti-Smith guy? The guy is 21 - 5 over his last 3 seasons and has been competing his ass off with whoever is in front of him.

I see it like this with Alex and I see it with CK now. The reason the 49ers lost to NY (last year) is because Harbaugh is stubborn and wanted to show them that he could throw against them, knowing all along SF's best way of winning was staying balanced. This showed up again on Sunday against Seattle. I think with Reid it's the opposite, he's going to get the passing game up to speed because that's his forte and can win with that type of game plan. Sure you would like to see more of Jamal running the ball but that's not Reid's game.

With that said, IMO as long as the coach stays true to himself and stick with what he's best at. If it wins with the guys he has on the field, then keep at it. Make you're adjustments if nothing is working. It's a chess game out there and everyone has similar pieces, it's up to the guy that has control of them to make the right moves to win.

You have to love those stats :D

How's Kaepernick doing? Last I checked he was dead last in the RZ, while Alex is 8th. More t.d's, less int's by a lot, better rating, better %, an more wins. Not to mention this Chiefs team only had 2 win, and Alex has done that in 2 games. 7.5-1.5 against division opponents being the last QB to beat Seattle. Mr. Elite is 1.5-3.5 losing to the Rams, SeaHawks twice. Alex had a time he beat the division 8 times straight. And he sucked.

Care to go down this road? Why are you here sucking Alex's balls when your own QB is playing scared against the same team Alex beat not too long ago? Shouldn't you be somewhere else hating on Kaepernick for doing the same shit you hated are hating Alex for? Rolling right, small hands(that critical fumble by Kaep), not hitting open receivers, throwing recievers open, no pocket awareness, can't play under center?

Where are you on that one? Deflecting your anger/homosexualism on Alex again on a Chiefs board.

Ive been watching Smith since his days at Helix, when we all were going to check out this guy named Reggie Bush, so im always gonna follow Smith wherever he goes. Im a different fan of his cuz ive seen almost every game hes ever played, except when he was a freshman and sophmore in High school. There are so many fans that follow him because they started to see that flash with the NINERs your wanting to see. There was so much invested in him many people want to see how the story turns out. Alot of good NFL players have been put in terrible situations and are out of the league. Smith has pushed hard to survive and even succeed. Theres alot of arguing about him on the board, but in just 2 games with the bullets flying you can see how tough an gritty he is. The O-line is not yet jelled yet and he is running for his life out there. When they get their protections together and are playing as one unit, Smith will really thrive. As with any QB with a good line.

Smith since 2009 has 41 TD passes and 2 INTs in the RedZone

The redzone is where smarts and experience shows most clear.

Atlanta had no business winning that game. They were huge underdogs and still won. It's regarded as an impressive win.

Right. The same amount of turnovers the 9ers had against NO in the playoffs. Your greatest moment as a Smith fanboy.

The one thing about the Alex fanboys. They try so hard to reduce any success that other QBs have but celebrate the mediocrity of their own guy.

Do you have his TD:FG ratio in those redzone attempts?

Says the guy that signs up for a Chiefs board to bash the QB with the best winning percentage IN THE ENTIRE NFL since Jimmy Raye left in Sep. of 2010.

Kaep has done more in 12 starts than Alex has in his entire 8 year career. Why even bring his name up?

I'll tell you one thing. If Kaep plays like a pussy in 2018 you better believe I'll want him off my team.

Compare Alex to his peers, not guys who are just making their mark in the league.

Sorry lil guy. Alex's career started in 2005. You can't just exclude the stats you want. Keep thinking his career started AFTER Jimmy Raye :deevee::deevee:

-6.5
49ers vs. Saints were -3.5

http://i.imgur.com/QtNIlZI.jpg

No, I just added the basic splits.

Have you seen the coaches and players around those guys you mentioned during those seasons?

That's where you guys fail. It helps if you have a good coach and consistency in one offensive system. That's what we've been saying all along with Alex and guess what...

Proof - 21 - 5 over his last 3 seasons

yeah and it wasn't pretty. But guys get better that's what you don't understand, and Alex has in every statistical category every single season since 2005.

Typical deflect as well. You were the one calling out Alex Fanboys. But yet you don't address that.

They try so hard to reduce any success that other QBs have but celebrate the mediocrity of their own guy.

Is this not what you are doing?

Mr. Smiff, Im a Niner fan also and a Smith supporter. Of course you cant exclude his play from 05-08 or even 09 if you want to throw that in. You also cant exclude the trash that the 49er organization threw out on the field when Alex was there. I have never in all my years of being a NINER fan seen less talent in an NFL squad than we had in the years 04-08. 04-05 being the worse. Smith was on IR 2 out of the 8 years hes been in the league. Dont forget we lived with 8 years of misery and if you think it was just Smith you must be delusional. Were running guys out as our number 1 WR like Johnny freaking Morton, Dominac Zeigler, Rashan Woods, Arnaz battle. Yea we drafted Davis in 06 who did nothing. We also ran a 20 year skinny QB out there when we shouldnt have. He never should have played in Year 1 or 2 but our franchise was so desprate for anything we put our number 1 pick out there to sell some tickets. I dont discout any of the failures Smith had when he was young, I also dont discount the fact that he rebuilt his career and is having success. I also think Kaep is going to be great, but hes gonna go through growing pains much like Smith did. Only thing is, he gets to do it with a world of talent around him while Smith had to do it with the biggest heap of trash ive ever seen on a field. If you disagree just go check the rosters, you may need a memory jog. Ala Jonas Jennings..

The opponent knew ours plays. A Saints CB left his WR and rushed after the RB before the snap. He knew it was a run.
In KC they were calling out the plays before they happened.

Since then his TD to INT is 46-15

+ 5-0 in the 2 playoff games

Damn, would've been interesting to see.

If for some reason you care enough to look, you can click on my username and click 'Find more posts by Bearcat', or search this thread for duncan or jspchief... it's all there.

I'll give you a few bullet points though (so I can copy/paste for the next 800 times)...

-- This whole discussion is based on wanting a QB to take it to the next level (next level=2nd round of the playoffs and beyond), so 18 wins against teams that don't meet that criteria aren't all that relevant. Any mediocre or good quarterback can do that.

-- Chiefs fans have gone through 40 years of retreads, and only Joe freakin' Montana did us any good. It's not about 'hating' or being anti-anything besides anti-retread-QB. It's about having mounds of evidence suggesting this isn't going to be any different than the past 20 years.

-- To go along with the last point, the so-called haters want to be wrong. We want this time to be the time it works. We're tired of aspiring to ~10 win/one and done seasons. We've been there, done that, spent a lot of time and money to watch it. This entire discussion (from our point of view) is about taking it to the next level. The past (see Cassel in NE or even 2010 Cassel) doesn't matter nearly as much as the future. Not amount of 49ers stats or cherry picking will convince us otherwise. Smith will get his chances (Jax and Dallas aren't it), and we're patiently waiting to see what happens.

Ever heard the saying, "What have you done for me lately"?

What he did as a rookie and under Jimmy Raye's spectacular coaching really has no bearing on what he did the last two years or is doing now in KC.

All that really matters is what Dorsey thinks. Chiefs fans can bitch about the past and humor themselves into thinking they have the formula but, it's irrelevant. Last spring, Dorsey and Reid were probably asked about quarterbacks 100 times starting from day one. Multiple times they said they wanted a QB that wins. Arm strength and accuracy were great but, that stuff came second. The bottom line is that Alex Smith has turned into a winner. He knows what it takes to win and he won a divisional playoff game. That's why he's our quarterback.

To the Teboat!

Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick.
Steve Young was cost the 50th pick + a 4th.
Jeff Garcia was a CFL retread.
Alex Smith was a #1 pick 'Franchise QB'

Approx 5 teams happened to of sucked at the right time and get a legit Franchise QB high.
another 5 teams happened to have the right guy fall into their lap some other way.

What is the other 70% of the NFL to do?

Your probably never gonna be one of the favorites to win a Super Bowl.

49ers were 40/1 in 2011 and were a bounce away from going.

You're talking to the wrong person then because for me it's going to take a team effort, not just the QB and it starts with the coaches. So far in this very young season, Reid has pulled out wins with a team that he has his fingerprints all over but not fully. It looks like he's made the right choices so far and will most likely be making more as the season goes on and during the off season, in order to field the best players that fit his formula. 2 - 0 with Alex so far, the main chemical in his formula that he added the second he got to KC. With that said. So far so good, right?

I was a big fan of Avery out of college and was excited about AJ Jenkins. KC has the make up of a team that could be something scary if Reid can get them in positions to make plays. It's only week 3 and I think it's just a matter of time before we see this offense really start to take off. While you're patiently waiting for the worst, which is totally understandable from your experience. I am patiently waiting for this team to be something special, especially with the way the defense is playing.

The best of the group maybe.

Patient isn't a word I'd use to describe the vast majority. "Alex Smith Sucks" isn't "Alex will have his chance and we are waiting to see what happens."

I love it. You wont acknowledge ANYTHING about what an impact Alex Smith had on both of those defenses. or the run game for that matter. How has that 49er run game been without ALEX SMITH? Not NEARLY as good as it was with him. Why is that? The 49ers talent is STILL on the defensive side of the ball. YOU WERE JUST CRYING YESTERDAY ABOUT THE LACK OF OFFENSIVE TALENT on that team. So, the 2011 version was BETTER? lol, you are a clown........
Who is trying to reduce anything? Michael Vicks stats in that game weren't impressive, yet you propped him up, and the Saints dropped over 500 yards of total offense on the 49ers defense, even with the turnovers, couldn't stop the saints at ALL in the second half, and Alex did what you are saying he cant do. yet, all you are doing is belittling what he did.

Also, you keep talking about the NFC championship game. You never mention how that Giants defense, held the Falcons to NO offensive points, made AARON RODGERS look horrible, you know the season they went 15-1? In that same Lambeau, and beat up the Patriots in the super bowl. All teams with better offenses, better qbs, and ALL IN BETTER WEATHER I might add, with full weapons. Where Alex Smiths weapons were Delanie Walker first game back off a broken Jaw, Vernon Davis who showed out, Michael Crabtree who the week before dropped three passes, Kyle Williams who fumbled the opening play on a reverse, had two more fumbles on special teams, and almost another one on a dive to catch a punt, brett swain, and joe hastings.

None of that MATTERS?
Yeah. Regardless of what Alex Smith does, if he were 1-4 in divisional games, people will kill him. Alex Smith, for all of his faults, never had a game as hideous as Kaepernicks performance in Seattle. He single handedly wasted a MONSTEROUS display by the defense with his 4 turnovers.

he had more turnovers in the seattle game, than Alex Smith will have in the first 6 or 7 weeks of the season.

Shut up, go back to your 49er board.......

Nevermind. THATS RIGHT BECAUSE YOU ARE SUCH AN UNBEARABLE TOOL YOU GOT BOOTED OFF OF THEM.....

Continue crying you baby back bitch.

For you Alex Smiff. This is what I imagine is on your wall when you are jacking off to Kaepernick.

http://nflspinzone.com/wp-content/bl...QkCAAA2VzZ.jpg

I never thought I'd say this, but

NE fans > SF fans

This thread is like DC. I feel like I need a shower after being in it and no 49er fans. I'm not sending you pics of me in the shower so save those PM's.

Who would want to see your fat sloppy brisket eating blubber ass anyway?

Shrugs. Whats funnier is that the guys who joined purposely to troll, and diss alex smith are the tolerated 49er guys.

LMAO That sort of it the sterotype isn't it. However, I still have my hair, no goatee, and not too much blubber on thy ass. I did once however have a firebird which is close enough to a camero.

That's the way this place rolls. :) "The Mob" is in charge and they don't like Smith. It was the same last year. As long as you liked Geno you were good to go.

Damn. This right here cannot be ****ed with.

Last year? So, this isn't your first account?

No kidding, that pretty much defines Alex Smith imo.

LMAO Oh really?

I'd say this one pretty much defines Alice, Bob. Won't take a chance to make the big play for the TD, but didn't turn it over either. Just get him some field goals. Herm would be proud.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...e-in-football/

<b>The 49ers have the worst red zone offense in football</b>
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 12, 2011, 10:24 AM EDT

APThe 49ers have won 10 games this year despite a glaring problem that Jim Harbaugh hasn’t been able to solve. They are a miserable red zone offense.

After Sunday’s loss in Arizona, the 49ers officially have the worst red zone offense in the league. No team has scored touchdowns a lower percentage of times inside the 20-yard line.

San Francisco lost to an inferior team Sunday because they couldn’t capitalize near the goal line. They got inside the Cardinals’ six-yard line three times in the first half, and came away with three field goals.

They don’t have a red zone touchdown this month. They are 3-for-13 scoring touchdowns in the red zone since the start of November.

The offensive meltdown in Arizona didn’t only occur near the goal line. San Francisco had two first downs in the entire second half. Alex Smith averaged 4.9 yards-per-attempt.

Perhaps this was just an overdue slip-up from the 49ers. A post-division title letdown without Patrick Willis. We tend to think the offense is regressing a little after two losses in three weeks.

If they lose again next Monday night against the Steelers, San Francisco may just lose that playoff bye.

lol, at least you understood where I was coming from :D

9er fans are kind of screwed all the way around here....and for good reason.

A: The Chiefs fan Smith haters here are the most aggressive posters on CP. (although you are lucky that Dane happened to not be one of them)
So any 9er Smith supporter will catch a fair amount of shit.

B: The Chiefs fan Smith supporters are constantly trolled by 9er Smith haters.
They, in turn, have soured on most all 9er fans.
So 9er fans will feel their wrath as well.

C: No player has ever brought this many fans, and/or haters with him....none..ever.
And honestly, there are too ****ing many.
Some threads are nothing but 9er fans continuing the same unwinnable war they have been having for nearly a decade.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tKdcjJoXeEY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Consider it ****ed with.

Edit: but yeah, thats what he does.....that, and win.

The ironic thing about Alex Smith under Harbaugh and Roman.

Alex Smiths strength PRIOR to 2011, was considered to be the red zone efficiency.

For whatever reason, that was not present in 2011, didn't get much better in 2012. It does HOWEVER seem to be pretty good in KC.

No?

So far so good.

You should make this your sig.

Where can I find a thread concerning Alex Smith

You guys are ****ing idiots. They won 13 regular season games and a divisional playoff game that year.

Not turning it over in red zone is part of the reason why.

I want the Chiefs to TRY.

The Packers have drafted more QBs in the first 3 rounds in the past 20 years than any other team, and they only needed two for that entire period. The Chiefs have drafted one in that time, and it was Brodie Croyle in the 3rd round. What are the two teams that have drafted more linemen in those rounds in that time? The Chiefs and Jaguars.

If that, along with the stats on SB participating/winning QBs who were drafted in the first round, doesn't make it obvious enough, I don't know what else would. People can cherry pick to push their agenda, but the reality is there's an overwhelming trend that you need elite QB play to win hardware and if you find it, it'll most likely be in the first round of the draft, not on another team's bench (or from another team at all).

Do you still have that photo of Herm on your nightstand?

Well, we got a guy from the Packers so that should count for something. 2013 was just a bad year for QBs. We got a GM who was schooled to take a QB in almost every draft (Packer way) and we needed a QB more than any other position after he was hired. It was a terrible class and I bet we'll take one next year.

:facepalm: 2 games into the season two of those "bad" QB's have already orchestrated a game winning drive with less than a minute to go. LMAO

So far it looks like it could be about an average class, but it's waaaaaaaaay to early pretend we know what all those guys will be.

It improved in 2012. Now you are number 8 in 2013.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/st...red-zone/2012/

2011 did suck.

It was worse than Singletary years.

Smith wasn't the only guy on the field. It was a compound issue of the new system, WRs falling out of the lineup, too cute play-calling, running game could not get tough yards.


2011 49ers
82 rush attempts in the redzone AVG 2.1

2012 Falcons
81 rush attempts in the redzone AVG 2.2

Michael Turner and Jacquizz Rodgers were somehow better than Gore and the 49ers.

49ers were over 20% in the percentage of passes in the redzone that ended up as TDs in 2009 and 2010.

The drop to 15% in 2011 goes beyond Alex Smith. It was actually 1 point worse than what Smith did in 2006.

So far so good, yes. I'd like a bit larger sample size than 2 games including one against the worst team in football before I waive the checkered flag.

You won 13 games and divisional playoff game. You are spoiled. Do you know the last time we did either of those things?

So, you would have been happier had the Chiefs drafted Bray at 1.1? They would have been "trying" and the first round statistic would seemingly improve his likelihood to succeed.

Yeah, and that gives me some hope that just maybe this time, this regime has a real plan and it was just bad luck that the draft class sucked.... IMO, it doesn't really excuse not taking a chance on anyone until after the draft, as there were still a few possibilities at the top of the 3rd round, but whatever.

I've always hated the notion that it's forbidden to use a top 10 pick or 1.1 on someone because he's not projected to go there, or the notion of "x many GMs passed him, so he couldn't have been worth it".... not saying they should have taken Geno beyond a shadow of a doubt... whatever, they obviously already had a plan in place when they picked up Smith. But, had Rodgers gone 1.1, it's not like we can easily say that team would have regretted it (obviously, there are a lot of variables there... who knows how he would have developed in an inept organization). The notion that so-and-so is off limits because of where you are in the draft is pretty bogus. Fischer could be a dominating pro bowler for the next 15 years and he wouldn't ever come close to reaching the upside of a franchise QB. At least a team like the Jets, who have failed several times with high round picks (and maybe that's a sign for Geno :shrug: ), are trying, and it's not like they've been any worse off for the past 40 years. /digress

I feel certain that it was more a product of Harbaugh/Roman being content with taking lots of FGs... being remarkably conservative.. because they knew that our D and STs would chip away and stay on top of teams. They didn't want to leave the RZ without points... so 3 was acceptable, and this showed in their playcalling.

You can't seriously be that dense.

would be far more alarming if it wasn't that good considering who you played. besides. Can only really judge on how many chances you had.

1000 percent, is 1000 percent.

Obviously not gonna stand up, but if the chiefs can ever get Jamaal going, that percentage is going to be good regardless.

Oh, someone ACTUALLY SAID they would of been happy had that scenario had happened. NO LIE.

Well, of course, but it's mid-September, so 2 games is all you get in the here and now.

You could look at 2012, of course, which was better than 2011, for a larger sample size.

Everyone knows the Niners offense was anemic in 2011, and it was ST and defense that carried the load.

Is this what is known as an "Alexcuse", 9er fans?

The lockout played a LARGE part in that. a revolving door at wide receiver, Vernon Davis' admitted frustration with the offense, Delanie Walkers drops, (remember Detroit) Jims failure to properly challenge a call where the ref said Crabtree had stepped out of bounds, (he actually didn't, and caught the td, but we were penalized leading to a fg.

Lots of things like that.

Sure. But, in fairness. The playcalling in the redzone, especially early in the season, was run run run kick.

Hell, in the Dallas game, on a fg attempt, they got a roughing the kicker penalty that would of given the 49ers a first down, jim decided to take the points anyway.

There was a failure of execution that undoubtedly is on Alex Smith, but he was far from the only factor.

Yep. Get used to it.

That is the most likely solution.
They only had 61 Passes to those 82 Runs.

They were winning games and were OK with only adding a FG cause the D wasn't likely to give up much if any additional points.

You don't think playcalling can have a huge effect on a team's TD/FG ratio in the RZ? Anyone watching could see the run, run, pass (but throw it away if you don't love the first target) was our SOP in the RZ. Hell, our OC was quoted saying that it's always better to take sacks or throwaways vs forcing a pass.


If that's an excuse? Ooookay then.

Ah, see this is good. This is what I see a lot of Alice apologist using later in the year when poo pooing away loses.

What do you mean? Would those conditions NOT have satisfied your request(s)? Or, did you specifically want Geno at 1.1?

Oh god... :facepalm:

Best available, based on the system, etc; obviously.

It's one thing if every GM passes on a player once or twice, and I don't know where Bray was projected to go (if at all), but.... do we really have to explain this? LMAO

Tom Brady sucked in 2008. Not even a single TD.

But he was out in IR for 15 games?

Bradexcuse.

Yeah, cause I mean undoubtedly, the Chiefs offense is at its peak now, and will undoubtedly do nothing but get worse. GREAT CALL BY you.

If you haven't noticed, I like you as a poster.

Second, I don't deal in absolutes. I deal in facts, and probabilities.

You obviously see the arrow trending down.

Steve DeBerg put up numbers in 1990 that were better than anything Alex Smith has ever done. You don't see us masturbating all of over that team.

How about just taking the best QB in the draft? Right now that looks like Manuel. Would you have a probleml with Manuel instead of Fisher now?

Yeah, no kidding. If I cut off your legs and you can't beat me to the finish line?

" but... but you cut off my legs, asshole!"


"awww excuses excuses"

Peyton Manning sucked in 2011.

But he had a broken neck! He didn't even play.

That's just a Mannexcuse. Good quarterbacks get it done despite adverse circumstances.

You don't get to determine what stats get counted. The 1st 5-6 years of his career will always count no matter how hard you try to forget it. Sorry.

How do you explain the drop from 2009-2010?

Vernon Davis had 11 RZ TDs 09-10
11-12 7 TDs

Harbaugh and co struggled to get Vernon involved as consistently.

LMAO I guess I struck a nerve. I'll take that as a "Yes", that is what is known as a Alexcuse in 9er land".

Pathetic.

Shrugs.......

I just report the facts. I don't judge the SANITY of the posts.....:)