ChiefsPlanet - Royals 2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)

- Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)

- -

2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221199)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 6765422)

Here's a random blueprint thrown together … I think you really need to commit to young guys for the rest of the year and focus on building for 2012 and 2013.

Trade Guillen. Eat part of the contract. Get a decent (B-level/solid major league starter) prospect back.

Trade DeJesus. Get a good (A/B) reliever back.

And here's the thing that would be really bold... really crazy... but something that I think might really set things up for 2012.

First, let's be honest: The chances of resigning Zack Greinke are about nil. He's gone after 2012 (and possibly mid-year next year if the Royals trade). So … why not be REALLY proactive. Trade him now, get max value for him.

I'd knock on the Devil Rays door. They have a deep farm system, and a great team that could become a World Series contender with a TRUE No. 1 pitcher. Think about Greinke pitching with a GREAT defense behind him...

In return, I think, for a true No. 1 with two years left on a reasonable contract, you can get something to the effect of: Reid Brignac, Wade Davis and Jeremy Hellickson. An elite, A-level prospect (Hellickson) and two guys in Brignac and Davis who are at worst good big-league starters with true star potential.

Add those three to the talent pool in the minor leagues, and then you're really set up to bring up a talented, deep pool of cheap, controllable talent that you can hang on to and play together at the big league level for 4-6 years (worst case).

Two years from now, rotation looks like this:

Davis (potential strong no. 2)
Hellickson (potential ace)
Montgomery (potential ace)
Crow (potential strong no. 2)
Arguelles/Dwyer/Hochevar

Lineup:

C – FA (holding place for Myers)
1B – Butler
2B – Aviles
SS – Brignac
3B – Moose
OF – This pool would include David Lough (a DeJesus clone), Gordon if he does anything (unlikely), Derrick Robinsons, and whatever you can pick up through FA or in trade returns.
DH – Hosmer

Bench would include Callaspo, and Ka'ahuie.

It's a radical move, and I would miss Greinke... but I can deal with that if I'm confident the return would lead to long-term success.

I'm reminded of '09, when I was arguing that we should trade (a then healthy) Meche and, most importantly, Soria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz (Post 6765434)

that would be bad ass if we traded grienke. It would show we don't care about marketing we care about winning.

I'd love that trade. I'm not sure how viable it is (might be hard to pry Hellickson AND Davis, though), but I would be OK with Hellickson, Brignac and a lower-minors prospect instead (Tim Beckham?)

Talked to a buddy in the biz a few weeks ago about this... he actually thought the second scenario was more likely/do-able.

Either way, Hellickson and Brignac are the key parts for me. The Royals have a big hole in the MI. And the idea of having the two best lefty pitching prospects in baseball is intriguing.

I was on board with trading Meche last year and was stumping for it throughout May and up until the dead arm happened...

Certainly would have been nice to get a solid, young MI or C back in return for him...

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 6765333)

Wonder if we could get anything at all from him.....AL DHs have been terrible this year.

trade him to toronto for Aaron Hill.

Toronto has a knack for getting rid of their players.....just like we do.

My "DREAM" Royals starting roster.

1B - Billy Butler
2B - Alberto Callaspo
3B - Brett Wallace......... (instead of Eric Hosmer)
SS - Troy Tulowitzki........(instead of Alex Gordon)
C - Matt Weiters............. (instead of Moosetacos)
OF - Carlos Beltran
OF - Scott Podsednik
OF - Johnny Damon
DH - Jermaine Dye

SP - Greinke
SP - Lincecum
SP - DeLaRosa
SP - Aaron Crow

RP/Set up - Ramon Ramirez
CL - Joakim Soria

You think that ****ing team would compete for the WS?!?!? I sure as hell do.

Overall, though, I love the foresight and long-term thinking, duncan. I confess, however, to being terrified at the prospect of Dayton Moore being the one making the decision.

If you're going to trade Greinke, it has to be a freaking ridiculously insane return. I remember the Greinke-to-Atlanta rumors, and the prospects being discussed were NOT enough.

If the return is only solid-good, then you have to keep Greinke and work on an extension in '11. At that point, no excuses. The contract would simply have to get done.

I would be on board with trading Greinke or Soria if I had any faith at all in Moore getting a good return for them.

After he shipped off our pretty good bullpen from a few years back for the likes of Gathright, Jacobs, and Crisp, I have no such faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 6765422)

I really don't disagree with any of that.

Two nitpicks:

* Guillen is a sunk cost. Pay his entire salary to facilitate a trade, or be willing to outright release him if nobody bites. It's important to just get him off the team.

* Trade DeJesus for anything of value. Trading players for a certain position is the mistake Baird made with Beltran ("We need a C, 3B and a P"). I'd rather acquire the best talent out there and then deal with positions later. Someone else could move or we could make another trade to loosen the logjam.

As for the Greinke situation, unfortunately I tend to agree with you. His contract is not lined up well with the current crop of prospects. Just as they are supposed to mature and start competing, Zack becomes a FA. That's the risk DM took drafting HS talent instead of college talent that might've come to the bigs earlier (Smoak, Beckham, etc.).

It would kill me to see Zack go, and I'm not sure I trust DM to get the right guys in return (he'd probably seek yet more "toolsy" Joey Gathright types). But theoretically, I think it's the right move to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carls20yearplan (Post 6765477)

I don't think it's honest to include the Gathright/Howell swap in that criticism pool...

Howell was not a reliever until after getting to Tampa (and it took them two years to make that change, not like they instantly saw it). And he was a disastrous starter as a big leaguer.

As for Jacobs/Nunez... that ended up a bad deal. I really have no issue with Crisp/Ram-Ram. Crisp would have been strong value if healthy last year, and Ramirez was a "found" reliever. Sometimes its best to get full return on those guys after a good season (see the way the A's have handled their bullpen for years).

And there's a big difference between moving a Cy Young winner who's a true ace and a seventh- or eighth-innning reliever.

Greinke would reasonably command Hellickson, the best lefthanded pitching prospect in baseball (who is MLB ready), Brignac (a solid MI starter who has 20-HR power, is solid defensively, and can run a bit) and a Beckham (former No. 1 overall pick).

That type of trade would really work. The Rangers also might work... with Derrick Holland as the centerpiece. The problem would be finding a contending team that can use Greinke AND has the prospect pool to land him.

The Yankees and Red Sox both are pretty barren in the minors. The Angels minor league system is not as attractive as it was a few years back.

Speaking of J.P. ...

J.P. Howell is on his way to see Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham, Alabama and is expected to undergo season-ending surgery on his shoulder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru (Post 6765486)

I'm with you on Guillen and DeJesus, actually (get WHATEVER you can for them). I was just trying to project a bit, knowing I would be trying to construct a rotation/starting lineup based on return for trading them.

I'd actually throw Callaspo in that pool, too.

I think it will be interesting to see the Royals draft this year. I suspect we'll see another college-heavy draft. Which is not a bad cycle to jump-start a minor league system ... two HS heavy, followed by two college heavy puts a lot of guys of similar age in position to help you around the same time. Then you draft BPA from then on and try to replenish within...

We'll be lucky if Meche's arm is ok and he lowers that ERA. He has no trade value really, last year definetly...

I am not sure we'll get shit for ankiel either, what a waste he is

I would really hate to see us trade Zack.. But if it makes us a better team then I'm for it. It just seems too risky. We've got an ace, let's try to hang on to him first.
Posted via Mobile Device

Schaum's latest tweet:

The #Royals are not bringing anyone up I can confirm that I was wrong. Again, read all my tweets before u say I said it was confirmed. 11 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

I thought he was full of shit. Now I'm unfollowing him.