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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.*** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296)

BigRedChief 12-08-2015 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 11939982)
Be a good time to call the Braves about Freeman. Need for major prospects not as high now.

They are going to want Reyes. We need Reyes to start being a top of the rotation starter in 2016. We have a good core with Wacha/Martinez/Reyes going forward.

ChiefsCountry 12-08-2015 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11940130)
They are going to want Reyes. We need Reyes to start being a top of the rotation starter in 2016. We have a good core with Wacha/Martinez/Reyes going forward.

I seriously doubt that it would take Reyes. Not after raping Arizona.

Adams, Gonzales, Weaver should get it done IMO.

jd1020 12-08-2015 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 11939696)
Cubs signed Zobrist to a 4 year $56M deal.

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Traded Castro to the Yankees for Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan to make room for Zobrist. Adam Warren has been pretty good over the last 2 years and comes with 3 years of control. I couldn't give a **** about Ryan, he's on a 1/1 contract.

I just dont see why you would sign a guy like Zobrist to a 4 year deal when you have Baez on the team, unless their plan is to also trade him and keep Zobrist until Gleyber Torres is ready.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-08-2015 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 11940170)
I'm not sure how I feel about this.

Traded Castro to the Yankees for Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan to make room for Zobrist. Adam Warren has been pretty good over the last 2 years and comes with 3 years of control. I couldn't give a **** about Ryan, he's on a 1/1 contract.

I just dont see why you would sign a guy like Zobrist to a 4 year deal when you have Baez on the team, unless their plan is to also trade him and keep Zobrist until Gleyber Torres is ready.

Because you can play Zobrist all over the diamond, which allows you to spell COF, 2B and Bryant while still getting everyone plenty of ABs.

jd1020 12-08-2015 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11940183)
Because you can play Zobrist all over the diamond, which allows you to spell COF, 2B and Bryant while still getting everyone plenty of ABs.

No different than Baez. Baez played 3rd when Bryant wasn't and they have him playing CF in winter ball. The Cubs also have La Stella at 2B who also played 3rd. It just seems odd to me. I would think moving Castro would have meant they were going to go with Baez, but Zobrist kind of blocks him unless they are going with Baez as their CFer which doesn't thrill me all too much.

BigRedChief 12-09-2015 12:30 AM

Molina doesn't seem happy about the moves.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So sad!First Tony and now Jay!! Maybe I&#39;m next!!!It may be business but for me you guys are family. U will b missed! <a href="https://t.co/2jyww8bZdS">pic.twitter.com/2jyww8bZdS</a></p>&mdash; Yadier Molina (@Yadimolina04) <a href="https://twitter.com/Yadimolina04/status/674265101004767232">December 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-09-2015 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 11940233)
No different than Baez. Baez played 3rd when Bryant wasn't and they have him playing CF in winter ball. The Cubs also have La Stella at 2B who also played 3rd. It just seems odd to me. I would think moving Castro would have meant they were going to go with Baez, but Zobrist kind of blocks him unless they are going with Baez as their CFer which doesn't thrill me all too much.

There is a difference: Ben Zobrist is a good defender and he can actually get on base.

DJ's left nut 12-09-2015 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11940183)
Because you can play Zobrist all over the diamond, which allows you to spell COF, 2B and Bryant while still getting everyone plenty of ABs.

I don't get the idea that Zobrist 'can play all over the diamond'.

I mean, I guess he could but at this point in his career he shouldn't be. He's going to be a passable defensive corner OFer but little else. His feet won't allow him to play SS and his arm isn't good enough anymore to play 3b.

He's 'versatile' in the same sense that Adam Kennedy was. You could put him out there in a pinch, but really, he's a 2b only these days. And from my understanding, that's what the Cubs told him he'd be doing. They intend to make him the everyday 2b.

So they paid $20 million (the difference between Castro's contract and Zobrists), got substantially older and while the floor for Zobrist is higher than Castro's, the ceiling for Castro is much MUCH higher.

I don't think the Cubs improved at all in this exchange, especially if you think that Castro's re-emergence was in part because of his shift to 2b.

I get it - they're hoping that Zobrist can come give them some of the professional ABs that they've been missing, but with so many swing/miss hitters in that lineup, can 1 guy really change their offensive profile at all?

Ultimately, I'm just glad it was somebody else giving Zobrist that deal and not the Cardinals. He'd have been fine at 2/$24 but at 4/$56 that's absolutely insane.

I'd take Gyorko and his contract over Zobrist and his 100 times out of 100.

DJ's left nut 12-09-2015 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11940276)
Molina doesn't seem happy about the moves.

And Tony Gonzalez was upset that Tyler Palko wasn't installed as the starter long-term. Kobe Bryant was furious that Andrew Bynum wasn't traded for the corpse of Jason Kidd.

Sometimes players are stupid.

DJ's left nut 12-09-2015 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11940282)
There is a difference: Ben Zobrist is a good defender and he can actually get on base.

Zobrist can get on base, yes.

But he's not been a good defender for several years. He's got some Jeter in him - soft hands and will make plays on the balls that he gets to, but he just doesn't get to many balls anymore.

As a longer legged 'strider' he's been an odd fit for the infield for awhile now. As soon as age started taking hold a bit, his lateral agility fell off and he's just not able to get to the balls that he used to. And while his arm used to be barely sufficient for the position and would allow him to play a little deeper, it doesn't allow for that anymore.

I'd say Baez is a superior defender to Zobrist if for no other reason than he still has a very strong arm and the athleticism is still there. He's more erratic, but he'll get to far more balls.

Brent Williams 12-09-2015 10:02 AM

Did the Cubs sign Cueto to?

The Franchise 12-09-2015 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11935693)
Also reported that the Dodgers are talking Fernandez and the package could include Seager AND Urias. If that's the deal, the Marlins almost have to take it.

Fernandez would be among the hardest guys in the game to justify moving, but for those two guys, you kinda have to do it. My only worry would be whether or not Seager could stick at SS but the Marlins probably don't care as much as most would given that they have an elite defensive SS already in Hechavarria. They'd probably just slide Seager over to 3b at that point.

I'm not sure his value as a 3b is enough to move Fernandez for him, but maybe they do think he can stick at SS and suddenly Hechavarria becomes a very nice piece for a team that has a surplus 3b.

The Cards could offer Reyes, Wong AND Piscotty and it probably doesn't beat the rumored Dodgers deal. It's an outstanding package. The Marlins understand they only have 3 years of control left on Fernandez and I guess they figure they won't be able to re-sign him now that ace starters are fetching $30 million (and he'd hit the market at 26 yrs old so the bidding war will be insane).

Now it's being reported that the Marlins want Seager, Urias AND Joc Pederson for Fernandez. **** that.

DJ's left nut 12-09-2015 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 11940985)
Now it's being reported that the Marlins want Seager, Urias AND Joc Pederson for Fernandez. **** that.

Well yeah, **** that.

Seager, Urias and Bellinger, OTOH, would still have me taking pause if I'm Friedman. What advantages do the Dodgers have on the D-Backs right now? Kershaw's a little better than Greinke but Corbin's better than whoever the Dodgers have at 2 (Brett Anderson?) and Miller's better than their 3 (is Ryu going to come back? If not, McCarthy?). Goldschmidt and Pollack are the two best offensive players on either team, Ahmed turned himself into a damn good defensive SS and I think Lamb is going to be this year's unheralded breakout player. Honestly, are you any more convinced that Puig will perform this year than Tomas? They're both wild cards at this point, which pisses me off as a baseball fan because I love Puig and hate that he's loafing his way into a marginal performer.

AZ's weakness is obviously their bullpen but it ain't like it's great shakes in LA once you get past Jansen.

LA needs to do something. Even the Giants aren't certain to be worse than LA. If you're trading Seager for Fernandez and that's the only impact to your major league roster, it's a move that has to be considered.

Like I said, it's not a no-brainer, but I don't see how you can just dismiss it out of hand. The Dodgers need to be treating Kershaw's prime like the Cardinals treated Pujols - pedal down the whole time. You simply cannot waste the prime years of a generational talent.

The Franchise 12-09-2015 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11941076)
Well yeah, **** that.

Seager, Urias and Bellinger, OTOH, would still have me taking pause if I'm Friedman. What advantages do the Dodgers have on the D-Backs right now? Kershaw's a little better than Greinke but Corbin's better than whoever the Dodgers have at 2 (Brett Anderson?) and Miller's better than their 3 (is Ryu going to come back? If not, McCarthy?). Goldschmidt and Pollack are the two best offensive players on either team, Ahmed turned himself into a damn good defensive SS and I think Lamb is going to be this year's unheralded breakout player. Honestly, are you any more convinced that Puig will perform this year than Tomas? They're both wild cards at this point, which pisses me off as a baseball fan because I love Puig and hate that he's loafing his way into a marginal performer.

AZ's weakness is obviously their bullpen but it ain't like it's great shakes in LA once you get past Jansen.

LA needs to do something. Even the Giants aren't certain to be worse than LA. If you're trading Seager for Fernandez and that's the only impact to your major league roster, it's a move that has to be considered.

Like I said, it's not a no-brainer, but I don't see how you can just dismiss it out of hand. The Dodgers need to be treating Kershaw's prime like the Cardinals treated Pujols - pedal down the whole time. You simply cannot waste the prime years of a generational talent.

Well we did sign Iwakuma and Ryu is supposed to be coming back. Doesn't make up for the loss of Greinke though.

The Franchise 12-09-2015 01:25 PM

I'd sign Cueto over giving up those three.


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