Yep.

Petro just said mis-direction plays and reverses are standard NFL plays and that don't require game plans to stop yet this team can never stop them.

I totally agree.

He just said the Chiefs D has been vanilla for 7-8 years. ROFL

That is the point I have been trying to make, but he made it better. Playing your base D during preseason isn't an excuse for what we have seen on the field.

I agree. I have 0 faith in Gun turning this D around anymore. I know it is still preseason but the shit I have seen on D this preseason is no different than what I saw in the regular season the last 2 years.

Everybody bitches about the reverse but that is all Eric Hicks. As a DE you have two rules bascially - slow play everything and keep outside contain. He didnt do either.

Correlation is not causation, as evidenced by our winless preseason last year and winning 10 games in the regular season.
Other than that, I agree with you, I think the Giants were excited to beat the Chiefs, but we looked like we couldn't have cared less about the other team.

Preseason is like the opening blind draw in poker.

The flop is on week one.

Geesh, haven't any of you foos played poker?

I am not showing my cards before the flop unless I am all in.

WE NEED MORE SPEED AT DTACKLE.

Put WILKERSON in there.

What's there to show? The NFL is a copycat league. Everyone knows everyone else's playbook. Sure, you have to try to trick your opponent, but that's all gameday tactics, not bringing out some super secret offensive or defensive scheme week 1.

The loss and poor showing as a team does not bother me because it is preseason and we have seen it many times before. The Chiefs are the most vanilla team when it comes to Preseason. No stunts, no shits, no schemes, DLine stay in their lanes, even the routes by WR's are basic vanilla.

I did see some things I liked and some things I did not like, but I'm not going to evaluate a scheme or coach on a preseason game.

Pros
Webb is an athelete. Lots of potential although raw.
I like Pollard's attitude and it will infect others.
Wilkerson did well at DE as did Clint Mitchell. Both look better than Hicks.
Colquit looks great.
Sampson and Turley look good and Svitek is a stud.
Green, Kennison, Johnson, and Gonzo look ready for the season to start.
Printers, although raw, is a major talent. I like him more than Huard.
Reed is an upgrade.
Cruz is looking capable and Niklos had a good game.
Griffin made me take notice.

Cons
Edwards, Hicks, McIntrye, Bober and Hodge suck bad.
Huard and Smoker are not good enough.
Burton did not impress, but worse is the fact he was the second best DT.
Why does Dalton look so bad? Even Sims looks better.
The whole team looked asleep.

Are the basic art of tackling, putting pressure on the QB and not biting on every single playfake bootleg also elements that wouldn't be included in a vanilla defense?

We've heard the same exact things the last 2 preseasons when the Chiefs defense struggled. "They are still learning Gunther's schemes"; "Gunther is holding back his multiple blitz packages until the regular season"; "Gunther isn't showing HALF of what this defense is going to show in the regular season", etc etc etc.

Why should we expect things to be different this upcoming season?

This is what I'm trying to get at. Schemes, as we've seen are completely overrated on defense. It all comes down to talent, and do you have guys who can be considered difference-makers on defense. That is why I don't understand people who want to believe that Gunther is holding back some magic scheme or strategy that is magically going to transform the Chiefs defense into a playoff-caliber D once the season begins.

No scheme can't compensate for a lack of talent/difference-makers and that is exactly what the problem is in the middle of the defensive line. The Chiefs don't have an interior D-lineman that commands double teams and that consistently dominates the line of scrimmage. No scheme (especially in a Cover 2 style defense) is going to compensate for this void.

Schemes are overrated? It comes down to talent?

You might wanna talk to MOHillbilly about that, and find out why the Skins jettisoned Lavar Arrington.

I don't know about that. We have talent. We have two all-world CB's. We could put them in press coverage and send a lot of blitzes, much like the Broncos do. Actually, I think that's the best model for our current defense... we have the talent to do that now. Maybe we aren't going to do that, but we wouldn't show that in preseason.

Your point was that everyone knows everyone else's playbook? You were awfully long winded, not to mention you failed to make your alleged point, if indeed that was what you were trying to get at.

Underestand, the Cover 2 Defense is a coverage scheme that is not the newest invention :shake: (The 70’s Steelers used a Cover 2 defense), and teams are suddenly returning to using the Cover 2 more often.

The Cover 2 Defense had a lot to do with the introduction of Bill Walsh’s West Coast offense that became so popular in the 80’s. The entire theory of the West Coast offense is the quick drop and hit the nearest open receiver. It’s a dink and dunk system designed to counter blitzes, designed to move the chains, and burn time on high-accuracy, short-yardage passes. It also requires an accurate quarterback, but you don’t need a quarterback with a great arm.

The Cover 2 stops a West coast offense extremely well, for a variety of reasons. In a true Cover 2, defensive linemen provide all the pressure. Blitzing should be unnecessary. Defensive lineman line up in gaps to slow the run, and make it more difficult for holes to open up. If the front 4 play their gaps correctly, they’ll clog up the running lanes and force the running backs to run outside, where the corners, linebackers, and safeties (the overall speed of the team) can all help. The rolled up corners usually protect the safeties by funnelling receivers to inside releases.

The same Cover 2 look can be used to play a man under coverage where each of the five eligible receivers gets tight press coverage underneath with the safeties on the hash playing over the top. Typically the under defenders play a technique with a hard press to the inside shoulder and trail the inside hip to stay b/w the receiver and QB. This forces a QB to try to drop it over the defender and gives the safety a chance to break on the ball for a big hit.

The cover 2 look with safeties on the hash can easily morph into a lot of other zone and combo looks. They can get to a Cover 3 by rolling in addition to having the MLB drop. A real popular look right now is to move one of the safeties at the snap into a robber over the middle.

Faster is always better because his system is based entirely around the pass. The speed works well for passing and outside runs where the linebackers and corners can quickly converge on the runner. However, the Tampa 2 suffers from power runners. Big, bruising running backs can normally run over the smaller linebackers and a lot of times won’t be stopped until they reach the safety. A good running game cheats the safety out of the coverage he wants to run and makes him hesitate since he has to watch the run. When play-action passes can get involved and the safety has to respect the team’s running game, a lot of times it can spell a long completion or a touchdown. The Panthers are good at demonstrating this and exposing it, since they possess a power-running, play-action pass offense. A vast majority of their passes come off the play-action, and when the safety has to watch out for the run, it really opens up holes in the coverage.

So what is Gunther supposed to do if we have no talent/difference-makers?
Is it his fault or the no-talent players fault?