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beach tribe 12-07-2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326103)
Let's look at the moves that he's made while he's actually been the one in charge:

The hire of Todd Haley: Not damnable, but not inspiring of confidence either

The trade for Cassel: Looks god awful, and not because of his lack of fantasy stats. He doesn't appear to have the native ability to succeed in his position.

The contract to Cassel: We already owned his rights for 2 years, and were massively under the cap. This to, me, is the most damning move he's yet made.

The hire of Clancy Pendergast: ****ing awful. Arizona has the same talent in place as last year and is demonstrably better. Meanwhile, the Chiefs added their first three draft picks to the D and it's arguably just as bad (if not worse) than last year's D. At least we had ****ing injuries last year.

The trade of Gonzalez: His best move. It was a forward looking move that brings us quick help for a player at the end of his career.

The signing of Zach Thomas: FAIL
Bobby Engram: FAIL
Bobby Wade: FAIL
Amani Toomer: FAIL
Monty Beisel: FAIL
Mike Brown: FAIL

Cutting Pollard: FAIL

Trading a draft pick for Alleman and Eat Dookie: FAIL

Addressing the OL through draft and FA: FAIL. It wasn't an OL-empty draft, either, nor was Ryan O'Callaghan the only RT available after September cuts.


Bringing in Vrabel along w/ Cassel to establish veteran leadership: Nothing shows leadership like a 34 year old player flipping off the opposing sideline because he's experiencing multiple blowout losses for the first time in his career.

Drafting a 5 Technique at 3 overall b/c you've painted yourself into a corner: FAIL

Sean Ryan: FAIL

Thigpen trade: Great move.

Signing of Chris Chambers: Great move.

I should be optimistic, huh?

Now break down all the Awesome moves that BB made this past off-season.
And don't give me Richard Seymore. That's Raiders hilarity, not BB genius.
Guess what. The Patriots are falling fast.

quote
Bobby Engram: FAIL
"Bobby Wade: FAIL
Amani Toomer: FAIL
Monty Beisel: FAIL
Mike Brown: FAIL" [Hamas]

We turned over a third of the roster, and you're gonna point at a bunch of league minimum guys we brought in, and say fail because they didn't work out?

I'm with ya man. I think a team should be able to bring in 23 players, and have everyone of them start, and contribute at a high level. **snicker**

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6326160)
The Truth Monkey just let out a big one over this post.

It's as though people don't realize just how bad we were/are. When Pioli took over, the sign over the stadium read; "Arrowhead, Home Of The Laughing Stocks." He's supposed to turn that culture around in 12 months? That's crazy talk.

Besides, as mentioned, he has a lot more on his plate than just personnel issues. The Chiefs were a broken organization from top to bottom. Give the poor guy a little time to sort things out, I say.

FAX

This question has been asked countless times, but who was asking for that to happen?

Tangent: "changing a culture" is an empty rhetorical phrase and is usually cited by those failing at their jobs. It's the line of choice, for example, for university presidents facing a vote of no confidence from the faculty.

beach tribe 12-07-2009 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326136)
Don't forget Succop!

I haven't.

Dude is going to kick for us for the next decade. Not bad for the last pick in the draft.

Dude has a ****in donkey leg.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326148)
BULLSHIT!!!!

If the Chiefs had added the right players in four or five key positions they'd be a much better team right now.

We could have gone after Brian Dawkins...instead we got Mike Brown.

We could have found a guard or tackle in an OL-deep draft...instead we ****ed around with Goff and Newdookie.



Sure, if all you care about is how the team looks right now, if the (false) perception that they're "getting better" in 2009 matters all that much to you. If winning a few more games during a losing season is a big deal to you, if going 8-8 so you don't have to suffer through any down times is more important that working towards a long-term turnaround. If you're a big fan of the way Carl Peterson did business. Which I am not.

As for me, well, in my view, the team would not be better in any meaningful way if they exchanged some of the scrubs that are starting now for different scrubs. YOU might feel better, if they'd won 4 or 5 games now instead of 3 (and there's no guarantee that anything would be any different with different names on the jerseys), but at the end of the day it would end exactly the same way: looking for replacements in 2010 and beyond to build the team that they want.

This year was not the time for bold free agent moves, in my opinion. I think they have to build the core of their team first, through the drafts, and then fill in the holes that way. All of the guys you're bitching about are placeholders for guys who'll be drafted later on. Which is I think the right approach.

Can they do it? I don't know. I do know it's not something that can be done in one offseason. Or two. And I'm not supporting Pioli or anybody else when I say that. What I am saying is that I can't judge the quality or lack thereof of their philosophy or approach at this point.

Because it's too soon.

Which I'm sure I've said before.

But by all means don't let me interrupt your hilarious overreaction and bi-polar weekly behavior.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 02:50 PM

Go and look at the moves the Broncos made on defense.

Why not the Chiefs?

I'll tell you why - the people running things at Arrowhead ****ed it all up this year.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-07-2009 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 6326200)
Now break down all the Awesome moves that BB made this past off-season.
And don't give me Richard Seymore. That's Raiders hilarity, not BB genius.
Guess what. The Patriots are falling fast.

quote
Bobby Engram: FAIL
"Bobby Wade: FAIL
Amani Toomer: FAIL
Monty Beisel: FAIL
Mike Brown: FAIL" [Hamas]

We turned over a third of the roster, and you're gonna point at a bunch of league minimum guys we brought in, and say fail because they didn't work out?

I'm with ya man. I think a team should be able to bring in 23 players, and have everyone of them start, and contribute at a high level. **snicker**

I love the fact that the entire rebuttal of all you ballwashers has been to invent a narrative that was not said and then use that as what I, and others, have said instead of what was really said.

But that tends to happen when you and try to pass off boiled water as lobster bisque.

I don't have a rebuttal, so I'll just invent something that I want them to say so I don't sound like a clueless automaton*


*It should be noted that I'm giving you credit for hypothetically using words such as automaton that you probably don't know, since if someone put a bullet through your brain the copper jacket would have been the first original item to pass through in the entirety of your lifespan***


***Providing it wasn't recycled.

FAX 12-07-2009 02:51 PM

If, in two years, we're still wallowing in this mire, I'll join you guys in your wacky madness. Heck, I'll even be the guy who marches out front carrying the big baton thing and walking while tilted backwards and wearing a big, giant, fluffy hat. Ef' 'Em will be my watchwords and Destruction my middle name.

Until then, I shall look forward to the ways and means whereby Pioli and company figure out how to fix this damn thing and implement their ideas. Although these arguments are rife with passion, I'm unconvinced that this, particular front office is simply a gang of incompetent stooges with an all-encompassing will to lose. Been there. Done that.

FAX

dirk digler 12-07-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326207)
This question has been asked countless times, but who was asking for that to happen?

Tangent: "changing a culture" is an empty rhetorical phrase and is usually cited by those failing at their jobs. It's the line of choice, for example, for university presidents facing a vote of no confidence from the faculty.

That doesn't make sense. They have been using changing the culture since the very first day they started. It is not like they started using it last week.

HemiEd 12-07-2009 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 6326059)
I really can't understand how anyone can see it any other way. It baffles me.

Let me help.

You think Haley is the right guy? After watching his progress with this team?
His play calling? The teams lack of progress? Seriously?

You think Cassel is the guy, after making us all pine for Thigpen or Huard?

Sometimes it is better to just cut bait, once you realize you have a stinkfish on the line.

Cut your losses and move on. I am still holding hope for Pioli, but right now if it were up to me, Cassel and Haley would both be moving on.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6326215)
Sure, if all you care about is how the team looks right now, if the (false) perception that they're "getting better" in 2009 matters all that much to you. If winning a few more games during a losing season is a big deal to you, if going 8-8 so you don't have to suffer through any down times is more important that working towards a long-term turnaround. If you're a big fan of the way Carl Peterson did business. Which I am not.

Huh? I'm not talking about just signing about a few old guys from free agency.

I'm talking about the draft. I'm talking about the RIGHT coaching hires instead of the wrong ones (Nolan v. Pendergast).

Do you really think Pioli and Haley were comfortable ranking in the bottom 5 on offense and defense this year? Do you think they are shrugging their shoulders as you are now?

BULLCRAP.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326219)
Go and look at the moves the Broncos made on defense.

Why not the Chiefs?

I'll tell you why - the people running things at Arrowhead ****ed it all up this year.

The Broncos were an 8-8 team competing for the west division crown last year.

The Chiefs won 2 games.

One of those things is not like the other.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6326245)
The Broncos were an 8-8 team competing for the west division crown last year.

The Chiefs won 2 games.

One of those things is not like the other.

The Chiefs and Broncos had comparable defenses, though.

One team did something about it. The other team tried, and failed. Miserably.

Don't stick your head in the sand.

beach tribe 12-07-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326174)

And through all of that, we were told to STFD and STFU because we aren't "Pioli".


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Nobody is saying that.

Simply stating that it's too early to throw in the towel, and declare Pioli, BB's bitch, and an imminent failure. It makes you look slightly like a panicky over-reacting nancy. Just kidding dude.

I think you're smart Hamas. No, I know you're smart. But I also think you make up your mind about people, and it skews you overall outlook. If Pioli doesn't attack this roster with diligence this off-season, then i will be right there with you, but I think with the late hirings, and such, he wanted to see it all himself, and also let his coach find out whether they were really this bad, because, I'm sure they think Herm is a dumbshit.

Rooster 12-07-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6326223)
If, in two years, we're still wallowing in this mire, I'll join you guys in your wacky madness. Heck, I'll even be the guy who marches out front carrying the big baton thing and walking while tilted backwards and wearing a big, giant, fluffy hat. Ef' 'Em will be my watchwords and Destruction my middle name.

Until then, I shall look forward to the ways and means whereby Pioli and company figure out how to fix this damn thing and implement their ideas. Although these arguments are rife with passion, I'm unconvinced that this, particular front office is simply a gang of incompetent stooges with an all-encompassing will to lose. Been there. Done that.

FAX

:clap::clap: I'm not sure what was expected by some.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326240)
Huh? I'm not talking about just signing about a few old guys from free agency.

I'm talking about the draft. I'm talking about the RIGHT coaching hires instead of the wrong ones (Nolan v. Pendergast).

Do you really think Pioli and Haley were comfortable ranking in the bottom 5 on offense and defense this year? Do you think they are shrugging their shoulders as you are now?

BULLCRAP.

I bet they're not a whole lot more surprised than I am. I bet they're not any happier about it than I am either. They probably hate losing even more than I do. And I hate losing in a way I doubt you can possibly even understand.

But, on the other hand, I do have the ability to grasp reality.

Which is a skill that generally comes sometime after you move out of your mom's house.


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