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-   -   Chiefs Football Outsiders Ranks Matt Cassel 44th of 46 QBs (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221370)

milkman 01-09-2010 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426099)
Oh, I prefer the eye test as well. But this type of statistical analysis is also important to support your opinons.

And I was with you on the QB's until you included Peyton.
Manning, for all of his numbers, invarably shits the bed in the playoffs.

He tried to give a couple of playoff games away in their one SB run, including to the sorryass Chiefs.

That Colt defense, Addai and Rhodes carried he and teh Colts to that SB.

Manning is about the only great QB in the last 20 years to see a drop in QB rating in the playoffs from the regular season.

The other.

Favre.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6426100)
Listen, dick breath, I was on the Rogers bandwagon ling before mecca liked him.

I've said it consistently for years.

Favre and Manning are the most overrated QBs, along with Joe Namath, in NFL history.
You forgot Dan Marino.
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okcchief 01-09-2010 10:17 AM
Well, he is in the same neighborhood as Sanchez and Cutler who many here have the hard dick for.

OnTheWarpath15 01-09-2010 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6426107)
Manning, for all of his numbers, invarably shits the bed in the playoffs.

He tried to give a couple of playoff games away in their one SB run, including to the sorryass Chiefs.

That Colt defense, Addai and Rhodes carried he and teh Colts to that SB.

Manning is about the only great QB in the last 20 years to see a drop in QB rating in the playoffs from the regular season.

The other.

Favre.
I don't disagree, I just want to see Rodgers do something in the playoffs before I take him over Manning.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcchief (Post 6426111)
Well, he is in the same neighborhood as Sanchez and Cutler who many here have the hard dick for.
Don't knock Sanchez. His 63 yards passing carried the Jets into the playoffs
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milkman 01-09-2010 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6426113)
I don't disagree, I just want to see Rodgers do something in the playoffs before I take him over Manning.
That's why I qualified it by saying that I "might" take him over Manning, depending on how the playoffs go.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 10:24 AM
As far as the eye test, I also go by this : how much does it scare me for my team to face him?
As a Patriots fan,Dan Marino gave them some trouble in Miami early on in his career. But after the pounded the crap out of him the '85 AFCCG he never really scared me. He won a great shootout with Bledsoe in '94 but I never felt he was in the category of Montana or Elway. And in the playoffs, when did Dan Marino ever play great after the '84 AFCCG against the Steelers.
Dan Marino. All stats. Nothing else.
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Dylan 01-09-2010 12:24 PM
So the quarterback's rating is messed up by the performance of others?

How good was the blocking? ... Just asking. ...

NFL stats are mostly meaningless -- it is determined by the performance of others around them J/M/O

B_Ambuehl 01-09-2010 12:37 PM
Quote:
I dunno. He looked like he had what it takes last year. Perhaps it has something to do with having better coaching, and having decent players around you. Nah, can't be that...
No I noticed it last year too and even commented about it here. His '08 highlight film is around here somewhere and he went to a 2nd option about twice all season long. He took a multitude of sacks behind a Pats offensive line that consistently kept/keep Brady clean.

Quote:
So, what you're saying is, Cassel's no Brett Favre. Mmmkay.
The point I was trying to make is the way Favre's mind works makes him a gamer and Cassell doesn't have it. Favre and Romo are the closest mentally to NBA point guards. They see things without looking, react without thinking, feel the rush without knowing it's there. That can sometimes get them in trouble, but it also makes them gamers. Guys like Cassell, Dilfer, Boller, etc. have minds that operate entirely different. They play more like pure robots. Guys like Manning, Brady, and Rivers are more in the middle. They have enough of that gamer instinct in them to allow them to be successful, but I don't know of one pure robot type that has ever excelled in the modern NFL.

MTG#10 01-09-2010 12:41 PM
Green was pretty shitty his first year with us too, look how that turned out. Not saying Cassel will be as good as Green, but lets give him at least one more season before we declare him a total bust. I think we are going to see a totally different QB next season especially with Weis coming in.

milkman 01-09-2010 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_Ambuehl (Post 6426369)
No I noticed it last year too and even commented about it here. His '08 highlight film is around here somewhere and he went to a 2nd option about twice all season long. He took a multitude of sacks behind a Pats offensive line that consistently kept/keep Brady clean.



The point I was trying to make is the way Favre's mind works makes him a gamer and Cassell doesn't have it. Favre and Romo are the closest mentally to NBA point guards. They see things without looking, react without thinking, feel the rush without knowing it's there. That can sometimes get them in trouble, but it also makes them gamers. Guys like Cassell, Dilfer, Boller, etc. have minds that operate entirely different. They play more like pure robots. Guys like Manning, Brady, and Rivers are more in the middle. They have enough of that gamer instinct in them to allow them to be successful, but I don't know of one pure robot type that has ever excelled in the modern NFL.
In the pocket, Manning and Brady are far better than anyof the other names you mentioned.

Favre and Romo are "gamers" because they use their legs more than others, while still maintaining some semblence of a pocket presense.

However, QBs like Manning, Brady, Montana, and an up and coming Rivers move/ed in the pocket better and have a more instinctual feel for avoiding pressure while still working inside of the pocket.

TheGuardian 01-09-2010 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6426114)
Don't knock Sanchez. His 63 yards passing carried the Jets into the playoffs
Posted via Mobile Device
Yes, and he "led" the Jets to a winning record.

Some posters here are full ****ing reerun.

Pioli Zombie 01-09-2010 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGuardian (Post 6426415)
Yes, and he "led" the Jets to a winning record.

Some posters here are full ****ing reerun.
Seriously, not since Tony Eason with the Patriots in 1985 has a qb been literally carried by his team. Put Manning on the Jets with that defense and running game and they go 16-0....um, since Caldwell isn't the coach.
Hell, Cassel showed in 2008 that if you put HIM on this Jets team they would have been 11-5 this year.
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TheGuardian 01-09-2010 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie (Post 6426426)
Seriously, not since Tony Eason with the Patriots in 1985 has a qb been literally carried by his team. Put Manning on the Jets with that defense and running game and they go 16-0....um, since Caldwell isn't the coach.
Hell, Cassel showed in 2008 that if you put HIM on this Jets team they would have been 11-5 this year.
Posted via Mobile Device
I don't know that I've seen a QB carried more than Sanchez has been this year. At least Dilfer was a good game manager and didn't turn the ball over. Sanchez sucks ****ing goat balls. Course some of us knew he would while stupid MF'ers talked about him as being a franchise QB. "If there's a franchise QB in the draft you pull the trigger on drafting him" and ****ing horse shit like that.

B_Ambuehl 01-09-2010 01:20 PM
Quote:
In the pocket, Manning and Brady are far better than anyof the other names you mentioned.

Favre and Romo are "gamers" because they use their legs more than others, while still maintaining some semblence of a pocket presense.

However, QBs like Manning, Brady, Montana, and an up and coming Rivers move/ed in the pocket better and have a more instinctual feel for avoiding pressure while still working inside of the pocket.

It's not just about pocket presence it's the way they see the field and process information. Favre and Romo often literally throw no look passes on the football field. They see everything at once, without zeroing in on anything. They're both extreme examples and perceptive ability of that degree is not rquired of NFL QBs, but you cant' be a total robot either. QBs like Cassell see and do only 1 thing at a time and whatever they're seeing, thinking, or doing is zeroed in on with tunnel vision. Rivers is the closest of the successful QBs to be that way but can also do things with his accuracy that Cassell can't.


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