Lol, no. Some of the elements of some of those movies were ok. The Burton movies were not bad movies. Maybe like a mixture of the Burton and Nolan Batman universes? They can make a fantasy comic book movie and not make it silly or ridiculous like Schumacher. Even with the shitty Schumacher movies, some of the atmosphere in that portrayal of Gotham was kinda cool. The issue was just silly, stupid characters with shitty dialogue and plot. Either way, I'm interested to see where they go from here.

LMAO

I dont know if I can rate these movies in order of my preference. They all kick some serious ass IMO. I don't like Katie Holmes, but that's been discussed here many times, and it's not enough to make me not like the movie any less than the other 2.

The 2 Burton Batman's weren't bad, the first one was good I thought, even though it was a little out of the story line.

Shumacher's Batman was hilariously bad. One of the worst movies of all time. LMAO

Just got back, enjoyed every minute of it, but... its third best imo.

It seems like he introduced not only too many characters, but too many plot points as well, and didnt flesh out really any of them to my satisfaction... i keep thinking of the Matrix movies after the first one, trying to do too much & muddling everything in the process.

Despite the truly awesome ultra-geek diatribe by Wallcrawler, i'm not at all bothered that Nolan took liberties with the stories of Bane or whatsherface Al-Ghul, he had to try to tie it all together in 3 hours one way or another. Bane was expertly played by Hardy, loved the unexpected voice he used, almost like a Bond villain & his eyes projected as much evil i can imagine possible.

As i figured all along, i am NO fan of the Selena Kyle character, despite Hathaways incredible hotness... Kyle is unnecessary & beyond the bounds of my suspension of disbelief. JGL, his character was a bit more understandable, a cagey & troubled guy for Wayne to pass the torch to.

In the end, i dont feel at all cheated of my $8, but its still the third best one.

I never watched Batman Beyond but was that a good series? i loved the original animated show and at that point it was the best batman anything imo

It's a finish to the story...less batman for sure in the 3rd one but some really emotional and tight scenes cause of the first 2 movies.

I loved it, all 3 of them actually

Yeah, theres plenty of gripping emotional scenes & i will still buy this for my collection, but its not quite what i was hoping for.

And despite my best intentions, i was glad to see that Wayne lived (atleast in my world) & ran away with the Kyle, although the character seemed to be lesbian... who wants to see Wayne die, anyway.

Just finished seeing it again and it filled in some plot holes for me.

The first is the Bat making it six miles. It's obviously fast, as it can outrun missiles, so that gave me the "comic book movie logicical justification" to let the blast radius thing go.

The stock market fiasco is still a joke to me. I don't understand why it's difficult to determine that trades which wipe out a billionaire at the same time an attack happens are fraudulent. And the sundown at warp speed is a bit weird still.

When Bruce first tries to escape the prison, there are still two months left before the bomb goes off. Even if you give him a month to try two more times and get out, that still leaves a long time to get back into the city. And Bane's forces flat out tell the national guard that they don't have enough men to keep people from crossing the bridge. Fear is the only thing that is holding the people inside. And there is nothing stopping Bruce at that point from going in, especially since there's no way they can guard every way in to the city by water. They allude to as much when Gordon first gets shot in the sewer, saying that the tunnels lead everywhere and they could never find him.

Police officers will be kept alive, Bane says. He was intentionally giving them supplies and feeding them.

Talia early on says something about restoring balance to Gotham, so that was a cool tipoff for later in the movie.

I still don't see how Blake isn't going to be Robin. They never came out and called Kyle cat woman, but you know she is. Blake said he didn't want to wear a mask, and if he's Batman, that would be sorta mandatory. The statue in Batman's honor just signifies that he's gone. Wayne left Blake with the ability to become a new hero for Gotham and the Bat signal just means that someone is going to pick up where Batman left off.

Yeah, the warp sundown was the thing the bugged me at the time. My oldest was asking me about it too.

The thing I liked best about TDKR was that it had the same climatic ending as the 1960's Batman movie- Somedays you just can't get rid of a Bomb.


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ian4/136415634/" title="DaBomb by 1an, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm1.staticflickr.com/47/136415634_03f6dea387.jpg" width="400" height="464" alt="DaBomb"></a>

As I previously said, IMHO JGL becomes the next Batman. This sums it up:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhugh...ises-spoilers/

That's what I took from the movie. Doesn't really matter though. He's gonna be the next "hero" of Gotham, whether he's Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Blue Beetle, whatever he may call himself. The last scene with him in the cave and the bats flying past him made it feel like he would be Batman. That doesn't really prove it, but it's just how I felt.

He'll be Nightwing, because that stands the best chance of making a shitload of cash.

A Nightwing origin story > *

That's all well and good, except Robin never became Batman after he was done being Robin.

I don't think the title has as much literal interpretation to it as some are assigning it. Do you remember the last shot of Batman Begins before it went to the title? What did that have to do with "begins?" I don't at all see it any way except a "hero" rising. Batman left him the capability to fight crime, but I don't see how that makes him Batman. When he became a bat, he was embracing the thing he feared and that's what helped make him so powerful. How could Robin embrace that same thing to the same extent? He needs something of his own to motivate him. He needs his own symbol for justice, not something that was copied from someone else before him.

So if JGL becomes Batman, what's the story behind of how he gets his weapons, and how does he learn how to fight etc. Bruce Wayne got that from League of Shadows and his company's Applied Sciences dept.

It's not about what he needs, it's about what Gotham City needs.

Gotham needs a hero. It doesn't necessarily need Batman. Harvey Dent could have been the hero that Gotham needed.

Bruce could teach him to fight. He also could just continue using stuff Fox gives him. JGL is obviously part of the loop so I'm sure he will be taken care of by Bruce's people.

Actually three of the Robins did try to become Batman during Battle for the Cowl. Dick Grayson has become Batman on 3 separate occasions- one of those stints lasting more than a year.

I think Batman is the symbol. It doesn't matter who takes on the Cowl, but I do think it needs to be Batman.

But those were temporary, weren't they? I haven't read that particular story arc, but from what I gather, he was only there to make sure people didn't think Batman was dead, and Bruce reassumed Batman when he came back from injury. But Gotham already "knows" Batman is dead, so they just need another hero.

EDIT: Wasn't Azrael a cop, also?

Tom Hardy raps!

Impressive



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You kinda whiffed on this one buddy.

It wasn't about climbing. Bruce didn't struggle with the climb. It was about that one jump. That one moment.

If he had the rope and he failed... no big loss. He could try tomorrow. Without the rope it was all or nothing, and at that moment when he prepared for that jump the fear of failure would push him to exceed himself.

I've herd people say that this was the darkest of the three. Not sure I would say the same thing. The Joker's character made that movie dark. I'm not sure if it was Heath Ledger or the media hoopla surrounding his death shortly after that made that movie seem like more than it might have been, though. Anyway, I enjoyed the last one. Very well done.

Loved it even at the man allergies at the end

It seems a lot of people (not just here, but on other boards, reviews, etc) are saying they felt Bane was neutered in the second act, that it was a big mistake to take all the wind out of him in favor of the "lame" Talia twist. People are saying they don't care about Talia at all, that they want more Bane. I happen to disagree, but it seems a common issue with the film.

For those who didn't like the twist and felt it hindered Bane, can I ask how you felt about Ra's reveal in Batman Begins? Because that is sort of the same thing, isn't it? Scarecrow seems to be the villain, he sort of disappears later in the movie, has a final scene that feels maybe anti-climactic, and all in favor of revealing that Ducard is alive and is, in fact, Ra's al Ghul.

If Batman Begins didn't bother you, but TDKR did, may I ask why? Is it how powerful Bane is versus how powerful Scarecrow is? Is it because we had more time to invest in Ducard/Ra's? I'm just curious. This isn't meant to be a challenge or anything, just conversation.

Don't listen to Red Brooklyn....he's challenging you.

Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?!

The rope was the very thing that prevents people from completing the jump. Only two people have escaped from that prison, and both didn't use the rope. That jump was so easy a little girl made it.

It totally makes the hyper-intelligent Bane look like a ****ing idiot for not figuring it out. Which leads me to...

I'll need to watch Begins again, because its' been like six or seven years since I've seen it. But it probably has to do with how powerful and smart Bane is, and how much the Talia twist directly takes away from what the audience was to understand was the source of Bane's power and intelligence: his ability (that allowed him) to escape the prison.

I'll need to see TDKR again, but I'm interpreting that differently. I'm not sure the rope was a trick, or a puzzle to be solved. I had the impression that the jump is actually very difficult. The only reason Talia made the jump was desperation and fear. Same with Bruce.

I don't think there was anything for Bane to figure out.

Also, I'm not sure how long Bane was in prison before Talia busted him out. Actually, now I don't remember, do they ever tell us how Bane got out?

I was mostly being facetious when I said it was easy. But I am convinced that it is impossible to make the jump with the rope.

Bane was rescued by Ra's and his team of mercenaries. He was chilling out in some corner of the prison with cloth covering his bloody mandible, presumably living in excruciating pain.

Right. Cool. Thanks. So he wasn't probably in there too terribly much longer after Talia escaped. I mean, it was probably a matter of months, not years, right?

I'm guessing had Bane still be in prison once he returned to full strength, he probably would have made the jump.

So I don't see that (the rope/escape/Talia reveal) as taking away from/neutering the character.

Bane wore the mask for pain caused by the plague that was spreading through the prison, right? That is why his face hole was all bloody when he was rescued?

Oh. Maybe. I thought it was from the massive beat down he took helping Talia escape.

I need to see it again.

That was my interpretation.

I thought the doctor said that it was from the beatdown he took, but I could be wrong.

If it was from the beatdown then why does Bane need the medication mask? You heal from getting beat up.

I dunno. I usually try to avoid getting my ass beat.

Good point.

Maybe it's a combination of both? The infection caused by the plague or whatever was made worse because of the wounds he suffered? I don't know.

I thought the beat down was so bad that it permanently damaged his respiratory system. And the doctor tried to repair what he could, but much like Joker in Burton's Batman, the operations couldn't really repair anything/ just made shit worse.

Is the mask medicinal? Or is it just kinda like a super advanced respirator?

I thought it was supplying painkiller medication to him.

I should really see this movie again.

You and me both.

Actually, it took my 20th viewing to notice that loophole. When Batman is in the prison, his helper/warden is telling him how a child escaped, and how we assume that child is Bane. In the same scene, I believe, he mentions that Bane was beaten by the prisoners and how the mask "controls the pain". Well, if supposedly we are led to believe a child escaped, and the child is Bane... how the **** did the adult Bane get beaten by prisoners to the point of needing a pain-controlling mask? :shrug:

As for Bane being dispatched quickly, I also felt that to be a bit cheap. He'd been built up all through the film as this combination of cerebral anarchy/socialism and physical power. And as soon as Talia reveals herself as the child, Catwoman blows Bane literally out of the film with the Batcycle's guns. Seems like a rude and unfitting end to a guy who was built up all film as "the baddie".

The thing I hated was how easily Bane was ultimately taken out. Catwoman showing up at just the right time to obliterate him. Drove me nuts seeing Batman win because somebody else killed his opponent. They should have had Batman win that battle on his own. That was disappointing.

EDIT

That is what made Begins so satisfying for me. It was a great ending in the way he took out Ras

The child they say escaped was Talia, not Bane. We just don't know it at that point.

He was speaking to the point that everyone thought it was Bane. If we would have paid attention, we should have realized that Bane couldn't have been the child.

This was also my only beef with the movie. Everything else was awesome but Bane was there one second and gone the next. Their final fight could have been much more epic.

Maybe I'm just too easy going. I didn't have a problem with any of that. Bane and Batman had just had a great fight and Batman had taken him down. Bane was only saved by Talia. I thought that was a great moment when Batman turned the fight in his favor and started knocking Bane around.

Plus, his faith in Selina Kyle paid off. That was important, especially after his trust in Miranda Tate had just been destroyed. When it reached the brink, we found out who everyone really was.

The most recent "death" of the Bruce Batman was billed as being permanent and was known by all who really knew him. He was killed by Darkseid and during the Blackest Night series, you even have characters walking around with Bruce/Batman's skull. During this period Gordon realizes something is up when Dick is Batman and Bruce's son Damian is the new Robin, but he doesn't explicitly say that he knows that the first Batman is gone. How did the skeletal Bruce return from the dead? That story is too weird to explain.

Azreal as a cop? I'm not sure. I just remember that he became brain washed by the spirits of the Order of St Dumas & became a crazed vigilante knight with a flaming sword.

To be fair, Bane's ass got saved by a backstabbing bitch (literally). Batman had him curled up like a masked fetus. It is kind of interesting that both of these cerebral and physically powerful men were each saved by a woman.

Also, I'm sure it's been mentioned and I haven't read it, but was Hines Ward on the football team?

Yes. He was the kickoff returner that survived.

Thought that was him. It showed his face during the National Anthem, too.

Just saw this tonight. Not to troll or anything, but IMO this whole trilogy is completely overrated. The movie was fun and all, but the plot was ludicrous and there were several "what the ****" moments in the movie, and not the good kind. It wouldn't have been such a problem if the series didn't take itself so goddamn seriously.

Gotham has some stupid ****ing cops.

Finally saw it.

I will say this: Nolan shares my intense love for brunettes.

LMAO

That's what I thought. Eight years with no organized crime really made them go soft.

Maybe I'm wrong....

I believe they are talking about a child that escapes, but it is never said that is Bane. They are also talking about how the child had a protector, but never specifically say that it is Bane. None of that (mask to control the pain, etc) is really revealed until Talia explains it to Batman at the end of the movie.

Yeah, in the movie Bruce Wayne says, "Bane" when the dude is telling him about it. Filling in the blanks for the audience. If we didn't have our heads in our asses we would have known at the time.

Yep, the whole point of the story was to get the audience to assume the child was Bane. Only the people that were aware of Banes origin knew there was no way he could have been the child once they revealed Ras to be the father.

Nope. Talia reiterates it during the stabbing scene, but Batman's warden in prison says that Bane has to wear the mask because he was attacked by prisoners, and that the mask controls the pain. I'll get the exact quotes in a bit. (Right now I'm at the scene where Wayne sneaks into the hospital to see Gordon, so it's about an hour away.)

This is pretty true. They could have done a better job with the rematch.

Sometimes the situation is so dire that you don't have the luxury of waiting for optimum conditions.

See, I disagree here. Fox said that bat thing was made for crowd control. He just had to use it to take out some tumblers and then he was wide open. Why didn't he just plug away at the league of shadows dudes? Nope. He dumps it and goes to beat on Bane.

But from the story perspective, I understand why it was important. He had to show that he was back in it. He had to beat Bane. But tactically, he sacrificed a SHITLOAD of cops lives because he didn't blow holes in Bane's force with his plane.

That being said, I didn't think it detracted from the movie much. I tremendously enjoyed him pisspounding Bane.

So, indeed, the child is mentioned first, the implication/assumption is put forth that it's Bane, and then they mention the plague/mask, and then go right back to the child story. So, clearly, unless Bane somehow grew up outside the hole, then accidentally tripped and fell back in, it's impossible for him to get beaten up and need the mask.

---------

First scene of Batman in the prison (after the one where Bane tells him his plan and says, "When Gotham is in ashes, then you have my permission to die."

Warden: "They pay me more than that to keep you alive."

(prisoners tying rope around one man)

W: "He will try to climb."

Batman: "Has anyone ever made it?"

W: "Of course not."

(man fails)

(blind old man in other cell mumbles in foreign language)

W: "He says there is one who did. A child. A child born in this hell."

B: "Bane?"

W: "An old legend. Nothing more."

Next scene in the prison, after Bane sets off all the bombs and gives his speech in the football stadium and then frees everyone in the prison.

(Batman falls out of bed onto floor, tries to get up.)

(Old blind man muttering.)

W: "He says you must first fix your back."

B: "How does he know?"

W: "He was the prison doctor, (and) a morphine addict... (inaudible dialogue, something about "he took care of the prisoners here" I think)... including your master, Bane. Many years ago, it was a time of plague. Some of the other prsoners attacked Bane. In the doctor's fumbling attempts to repair the damage, it left him in perpetual agony. The mask holds the pain at bay."

B: "Bane, is the child you spoke of, he was born here?"

(story of the warlord's daughter)

W: "This is Bane's prison now, he wouldn't want this story told."

Batman doesn't use guns against people, does he? I don't remember what the bat thing is that you're talking about.

The plane? You don't remember the plane? Right before the big end fight, he flies it right up to City Hall. Then ditches it and fights Bane.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the plane. Did it have any non-lethal incapacitating weapons on it?

The Batman in this movie was not thinking things through. He was fueled more by anger.

The plot made that clear.

Here's a question I have:

Why is it important that we believe that story about Bane trying to ascend out of the prison, only to learn that it's Talia?

In what way does that serve the story?

I'm just trying to understand the movie better.

Then write it differently.

It was kind of a weak "boss fight."

There's a great Batman comic about Bruce Wayne taking out Azrael, who had been impersonating Batman for some time. Batman doesn't beat him with brute force. He does it with cunning, forcing Azrael to shed his armor and weakening his advantage. Batman defeats Azrael and Azrael admits Bruce is the true Batman.

Nolan gave us YARRR PUNCH PUNCH BRAWL ARRRRRRGH CATWOMAN SNEAK SAVE

He blew some shit up with it. IDK. Fox just said it was crowd control. And wouldn't you know it. Bane had a crowd out there.

Yeah, it kind of sucks. That's not Batman.

There's a lot of hamfisted screenwriting in this movie. It's awesome, but could have been better.

The whole Talia plotline is a complete waste of time.

I mean, at the end of the movie she's fighting HARD so she can die in a nuclear explosion.

What?

Eh. I don't know. When he was pisspounding Bane, I thought it was a pretty good boss beatdown. The only reason Catwoman had to come back was because after he had annihilated Bane is because Talia stuffed a shiv in his ribs. He had beaten Bane.

EDIT: and isn't what Batman did to Azrael exactly the same as Bane? He went for the mask and jerked the hoses off weakening him.

Well, Batman's not a real person in this universe. Bruce Wayne is.

And Bruce Wayne's inability to harness his fury was what drove him into the arms of Ra's Al Ghul in the first place.