But we do have a backup... Only problem is he's the starter.

I agree that no matter who the Palko thing is on it was fail on basically all sides.


However there is a reason that guys are backups. Look at Chicago, Indy, etc. You don't plan on your top qb going down. I realize you have to have a backup plan but when you have to play a backup, there is gonna ba a drop off.

I think CP tends to jump to the "it's either one thing of another" mentality and doesn't see the grey matter alot of times.

I tend to agree that haley got a shitty deal with Cassel. I don't really see alot of other options that he could have brought in to start. The search for qb is neverending and we shouldn't stop looking til we find one.

I think Pioli knows that. I think Cassel was brought in to be a stop gap type of player. Don't know why he got that much money but anyway. I think Pioli saw the roster and needed someone that would be a good leader and set a good example, which is something Cassel has done.

Now the roster is basically built, assuming the 3 ACL's come back healthy as they are a key piece to the pie.

Now it's time to go get a guy to lead the team with his ability at the qb position.

That was quite obvious when Palko wasn't even on the active roster after Romeo took over. There is absolutely zero reason why Orton shouldn't have started the Bears game but yet Haley still trotted that bum out there. I don't care if Orton had to draw plays in the dirt in each huddle, he would have been an upgrade over Palko.

I have to correct you, specifically on #4. Orton NEVER started under Haley.

I though he started for one play before getting injured. I might be incorrect though.

Remember the Oakland game we won earlier in the year? Similar situation. No doubt Orton is a better QB than Palko, but the results might not have been any different. Remember how awful Boller was? They trotted a Carson Palmer out who had no time to learn the offense and he was just as bad. That is why QBs are usually given a week or two in order to learn the offense.

Orton was a waiver acquisition. It stands to reason, the guy who's been on your team all season, probably knows the playbook better and he did put Orton in the game-Orton got injured on the first play he was in.

http://www.810whb.com/page.php?page_id=140 Go to the Jeff Chadiha podcast 18min Mark

He thinks Crennel only got the Job cause Pioli wanted the Power and Crennel doesn't have the power to pull Cassel out of a game.

Yep, and Haley was fired because he wouldn't be Pioli's puppet any longer. Pioli is an arrogant, egotistical puppet master, and everyone knows it. It's terrible for our franchise. Just ****ing terrible. Clark needs to put an end to it asap.

I could see it.

Pioli wanted a whipping boy, and he KNEW this was the ONLY destination Crennel would have another HC job, so Pioli could have his cake and eat it too. (I know, I hate that saying also).

Pioli wishes he was Al Davis (60's) soo bad. If only he could be HC, GM, Owner, it would make his life complete. Too bad he's a ****ing dumbass.

Crennel probably thought to himself "one more crack at HC before I retire". Anyone know how much more money Romeo got for becoming the HC?

There were rumors that Crennel wanted to be a HC again. This was the only place he could get away with it.

Not sure on his contract. Probably not much. Actually...I bet his pay is in the bottom 5 of the league.

Again, remember when Haley was fired and he went on the espn show with the ex players and they were all talking about Haley not having a qb. Haley just smirked. Its like you could tell he wanted to say something but he held it in. Im sure off the air or in between commercials during that segment Haley told them some good dirt.


I wonder if its up on youtube at all. imma go look for it.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZYcXaTD4urI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cF_HNq3ZUME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

there it is

I would pay money to here the off the air talk.

Compared to DC, he's obviously paid more as HC.

The importantest part might be his pension. It's very likely that he'll get credit for at least one additional head coaching year. That could make a big difference overall.

Honestly, though, you have to be dense not to see that Roleo doesn't care a damn about winning. Not one whit. He doesn't care about winning, who starts at quarterback, or what the fans think ... none of it.

He's here to take maximum advantage of his relationship with Pioli. Period. And so far as that plan is concerned, it's working out pretty well for him.

FAX

Maybe Matt Cassel knows where Pioli hid the bodies or something. Because **** if I can figure out why he continues to trot that shit sandwich out on the field every week like he is a legitimate NFL QB. They had to come up with a game plan that involved no forward passes last Sunday. How do you stick with that ****ing guy at the helm unless he will get you sent to prison?

EGO! proving that someone can do something no one beleive he can do. Its the only answer. Pioli is the ONLY one that beleives there. You know Romeo doesnt, he proved that time and time again. Romeo is just like people said cashing out before he retires. From that standpoint, i cant blame him, but its a ****ed up situation. The only ones hurt in this are the KC fans. Cassel made out like a ****ing bandit. He just walked into a bank and stole everything. Cassel didnt even need a ****ing agent taking 10 percent of his check.

This is just a slap in the face to the fans. Clark gave him the keys to the city and Pioli said let me get all my friends some good money. Then he will ****ing get fired eventually and go back to his old spot in New England.

I really want to smack Pioli in his bitch ass face.

He's a cull.

For sure.

FAX

It is unfathomable that Cassel hasn't been pulled the last few games. Reporters have repeatedly asked Romeo if he ever considered pulling Cassel, and Romeo has repeatedly stated "no." Someone needs to ask Romeo the obvious follow-up question, "if you didn't consider pulling your quarterback in the last few games, under what circumstances would you consider pulling your quarterback? Cassel has more than thirteen turnovers to just four touchdowns- just how abysmal does Cassel have to be for you to pull him?"

I wonder what the fear is in pulling Cassel?
That it's an indirect admission of a mistake?
Pioli isn't above making a mistake.
Neither is any other GM.

Admit you were wrong about Cassel and move on.
Guess what? If his replacement plays well...you'll get credit for it.
That's the job.

He has to be hurt.

I know right. If Brady does actually look decent. Pioli will get credit for the signing. I just don't understand. Has there ever been a situation where an organization so blindly stuck with a QB?

35 min. What am I looking for. I don't want to hear what they have to say about the FN Cowboys. Again, what am I looking for?

Its been obvious for awhile now. Crennel is a "yes man" who wont rock the boat.

Its why alot of us were against him being hired as HC.

Hes an OK DC, and a fine guy, but hes in over his head as a HC. heck, we already had 4 years of evidence of it.

uncle romeo's boat is full of suck-up and shut-up .....

I'm sure there has been, but I'd also guess that QB was drafted HIGH by that organization. Refusing to part with a poorly-performing player acquired in a trade makes ZERO sense. Even when considering the contract.

I think some coaches/GMs get caught up in the guys potential and have a blind eye to a players negatives. Cassel looks like, and sometimes plays like, a good NFL QB but he doesn't do it on a consistant basis. Coaches and GMs think that if they stay with the player, or get the player more talent araound them, that the player will somehow be the player that he is on the good occasions more often than not. Cassel has shown that he is an inconsistant player all of the time. It is past time for the GM to realize this and move on.

Goes the other way too. I think sometimes a coach or a GM overlooks a guy with talent over the few things they don't like about the guy.

I honestly wonder how many careers have been derailed because a coach didn't believe in a guy.
Who might have otherwise been able to show something.

I think a lot of Planeteers and Chiefs fans in general are still sipping the left-over Kool Aid that's been sitting in the back of the fridge for 3 years.

Roleo doesn't give a tinker's damn about winning. He doesn't give a damn about the Chiefs and he doesn't give a damn about the fans. He's here to wrap up the twilight of a career and support his old buddy, Dr. Evil.

People talk about his laid-back personality, but he hasn't always been that way and he doesn't have to be that way now. The fact of the matter is that the fire in old Roleo burned out some time ago.

Meanwhile, Piolio is sticking it to the fans whenever he can. He views us as a bunch of redneck, tractor riders who wouldn't know which fork to use at a dinner party. He's an elitist megalomaniac and we are the fly-over-state dumbasses who are supposed to snap up tickets for an 8 and 8 team and, when they don't, they need to #getaclue.

We're caught up in a perfect storm of absentee, mainly emotionally-detached owner, narcissistic GM, and indifferent head coach. At this point, caring about this team is, as Mr. Iowanian would say, akin to sending love letters to your bad girlfriend.

Cassel is a symptom. Not the disease. And that, my friends, is the sad, horrifying truth of it all.

FAX

:clap::clap::clap: Post of the year Mr. Fax!

Beautiful, Mr. FAX, just beautiful.

Way over 40 characters.

I totally agree with this also. I think there are a lot of players that don't get much of a chance to make a team because they don't fit some of the measurables the coach wants in his players ( long arms, 4.3 speed, etc...).

IMO the whole thing comes down to a GM that can't admit a $60 million mistake, a coach who has no pull to override the GM because the GM was handed the keys by an owner who would rather be watching soccer. The owner is in it for the legacy of his father which he has no knowlege or inclination to add to, and as a business. Despite the empty seats, the Chiefs still make money. Could they make more? They'd have to spend more money.

FFS, How many forks are there supposed to be?

I don't get why Romeo's afraid either. What's Pioli going to do if he benches Cassel, fire him? He won't survive another in-season firing. Firing a head coach because he won't follow the GM's marching orders for one particular player (who stinks) is bad bad PR. Pioli doesn't want that at this point.

I'm baffled by the reluctance to make a move EVERYONE now agrees this organization must make.

Be baffled no more, Mr. Micjones.

They don't give a sh*t.

It's really that simple.

FAX

I'll give you the best reason they won't bench Cassel:

Brady Quinn is a POS.

Yup. Pioli assembled the most talented team picking top 5 ROFL GM of the millenium.

We are gonna be the best 5-11 team ever.

At least we won five games. /Hermeo

I don't buy that. I think every party involved wants to win.
They may not have the right formula for winning, but I don't think anyone in this organization is comfortable with where this franchise is.

Let's look at it this way;

Let's say 0 is "Wants to lose" and 10 is "Wants to win". We are functioning as though we are somewhere in the 5 range.

For example, Roleo just informed us that we should be happy we didn't lose the last game 40 to 10. That should tell you everything you need to know about the commitment to winning that permeates this organization.

I know that we all want to believe they really care and desire success. Show me the evidence that it's true.

FAX

Lamar Hunt was more than content from 1972-1986 when the Chiefs missed the playoffs each and ever year, finished with such stellar records at 2-12 and three consecutive 5-9 records.

This team is currently in the midst of of an almost two decade playoff win drought and for some reason, you believe the owner is uncomfortable?

Why? It's their natural territory.

Who cares what's he's saying in post-game press conferences?
Press conferences in pro sports aren't exactly platforms for transparency.

The team stinks. That's all I care about.
We're seeing the Peter Principle in play for Crennel.
He may not have anything convincing or reassuring to say because well...he may not have an answer. That's a problem, but that doesn't suggest to me that he doesn't care.

Which is why he started the current administration by making Pioli the highest-paid GM in the NFL? Because he doesn't give a shit?

I look at this organization and see poor decisions being made in key areas, not apathy.

If Clark really cared, he would have addressed the media by now.

Not only was there a banner flown over Arrowhead for an hour asking for the firing of his hand-picked GM and starting QB, but it received massive national attention as well.

Furthermore, their highest profile and highest paid 2012 free agent acquisition just accused 70,000 Chiefs fans in attendance this past Sunday as being "sick".

If there was ever a time for a statement from Clark Hunt, it would be now.

We're only 5 games into the season. He may still do that.
I'm more concerned about what he's doing behind closed doors anyway.

I'd actually prefer to hear from the GM, but I don't disagree with you entirely.
I still don't think that suggests he simply doesn't care. He bears a proud football family name. I can't imagine he's okay with seeing his franchise flailing about the way they are right now.

In my opinion, he should have addressed these situations immediately after Sunday's loss, if not Monday morning.

Failure to do so makes him look disinterested.

Again, I believe it should have come from the owner. This GM is uninterested in the media, so it's no surprise that he hasn't addressed the situation.

Proud? In what way is the name "Hunt" associated with a "proud" name? As I pointed out earlier, the Chiefs missed the playoffs from 1972 to 1986, then from 1987-1990. They haven't won a playoff game since the 1993 season.

I think you'll find very few people outside 200 mile radius of KC that is even familiar with the Hunt name, let alone the "pride" behind it.

I know I can't convince anyone that what I'm saying is true. People have to come to that realization on their own ... if they ever do. Years of faithful loyalty don't just evaporate overnight and it's difficult to believe that an NFL franchise could operate with no emphasis on consistent success.

For my part, I've heard all the arguments that our situation is simply the product of a long history of poor decision-making or bad luck and I finally had to reject them. It just doesn't make sense. And, if you set them aside for a moment, you begin to realize that there is more going on here than mere incompetence. There is a lot of money being paid out to people who are not producing positive results ... a lot of money. Meanwhile, people who strive and fight for accountability are fired while incompetence is rewarded.

If you step back and look at this entire situation with cold, impartial objectivity, the fact that the Chiefs organization could barely care less about the fans and/or fielding a truly competitive football team becomes frighteningly clear and it's not just reflected in our record.

FAX

Dane, will you admit Clark cares if he fires Pioli?

Cares? I don't think I'd go that far but I would compliment him on making a fine business decision.

Or it may suggest that he's not willing to be a meddlesome owner.

It's still part of his job.
He could be compelled, by the owner, to address the stat quo.

It's a respected name in light of its overall history.
People respect the Hunt name. So does Clark.

If we're talking the average fan, sure...
People who are knowledgeable about the history of this league respect the name.

Widen the scope and look at other organizations who've had long bouts with failure. It's not just the Chiefs. There are other organizations we can name. Ultimately the organizations that have won consistently...have done so because they've consistently made good decisions, put good decision makers in place, and been good stewards of personnel. Some organizations have winning philosophies.

I'd say he's the exact opposite of "meddlesome", which would be avoiding, dodging or ignorant. You choose.

As defined by whom? If anything, the President of the franchise should address the notion that 70,000 fans were out of line, if not the owner.

Crickets.


Dude, give me a break. Go ask someone in Seattle or San Francisco or Buffalo or Tampa what the Hunt Family means and get back to us.

That idea is ludicrous. As it's been discussed in other threads, most people outside that region believe that the Kansas City Chiefs play in KANSAS.

And it's the average fan that continues to fill up Arrowhead Stadium, isn't it?

Which leads right back to ownership.

Duh.

And we can take that mean we don't have one because they don't care to have one?

:facepalm:

Haley's dad was able to determine watching ONE PRACTICE that Cassel simply didn't have it. Yet Pioli watched him for years in NE during practice, and watched him shit all over himself here, and still thinks he can play.

Just think about that. WTF does the say about Pioli?

He made a statement today defending the fans.
How's that for dodging?

No General Manager can avoid the media entirely.
And Pioli hasn't. His philosophy is such that he doesn't give much to the local media, but that's not unlike most other GM's.

The AFC Championship Trophy bears his family name.
I think that suggests it has a smidgen of value.

That idea is ludicrous. As it's been discussed in other threads, most people outside that region believe that the Kansas City Chiefs play in KANSAS.

I get it though. You want to believe Hunt and company don't care.
You're entitled. We should probably agree to disagree at this point though.

The Hunt family didn't care about the Chiefs fans in the 70's or 80's. They "began" to care in the 90's, when TV contracts, thanks to Jerry Jones, became far more lucrative than they had in the past.

Lamar Hunt had an issue with firing people, hence Steadman and Schaaf for 29 years and Carl Peterson for 17 years. And instead of cleaning house immediately after assuming control of the Chiefs, Clark gave Peterson two more years, even though it was clearly time to move on.

My personal feeling is that Clark knew his back was against the wall with the Kansas City (i.e., stadium upgrades) and the fans when he finally fired Peterson in late 2008. Does he feel, once again, like his back is against the wall?

If not, don't expect anything other than more Pioli.

Firing Peterson in 2007 would have been premature. They were a year removed from a playoff appearance.

He fired Peterson at exactly the right time.

Eh it didn't make much sense to begin a rebuilding process with a GM/coach for 1 year.

Explains our drafts.

If you aren't any good at evaluating the QB or skill positions just don't draft them. Build your team from the "front back."

A great offensive line makes the HB and QB look good.

A great D line makes the LB's and DB's look good...

I disagree.

While I was and am extremely happy with the 2008 draft, I'm of the opinion that Clark should have cleaned house immediately and begun a new era. Instead, he extended the era, which IMO, has only been further extended under Pioli.

Clark's going to need to bust his ass to get this next move right.

I hate to agree with GoChiefs but I do.

He was 2-2 with HC's, drafted some HOF players, and there was a chance to believe in him going against the grain and hiring an offensive guy in DV.

It didn't work.

We moved on.

I honestly think when rebuilding the HC should get 3 years and the GM 4.

Well, both have happened and we're seeing the same results as the day they got here. Time for the GM to leave as well...

I argued with a few friends (outside of this forum) that Herm deserved to keep his job in 2008, due to the "Youth Movement" and excellent 2008 draft, in which he and Kuharich took personnel decisions from Carl.

That said, the time for Clark to cut the cord, IMO, was 2007. While CP had a phenomenal ten year run, his final ten years ruined any chance of a legacy in Kansas City.

I always hated when someone back then said we were on a youth movement. If you're on a youth movement you try to sign young players that will be your future. They got young guys that were warm bodies to fill out the roster. We had so many guys on that team that should have never been in the NFL.

Like who?

Herm pushed for Croyle to start over Huard -- the wrong QB, but youth nonetheless. He cut Surtain and started Carr and Flowers as rookies. He cut Wiegmann for Niswanger (again, wrong guy, but youth nonetheless). He gave Tank and Turk a lot of playing time and played Pollard and Page over established vets like Knight and Wesley. And when everybody insisted that he wait for Branden Albert to learn the Left Tackle position, he started him right away.

It took guts for Herm to do what he did. He could have played veterans and saved his job, but he instead committed to playing youth, even if that meant losing.

Bad coach, but he put this team in a much better place.

Pat Thomas
DuJuan Morgan
Tyrone Brackenridge
Weston Dacus
Ricardo Colclough
Will Franklin
Brian Johnston
Oliver Celestin
Tommy Jackson


There were probably more that were picked up and cut. That's just a cursory run through. We had tons of players we brought in that year.

I think you're being a little critical if we're going to get upset over those players, mostly late round picks and bargain basement guys, not panning out.

The youth movement had some failures like Niswanger and Croyle. It also got Albert, Flowers, Carr, and others quality "young guy" reps. Most importantly, it cleaned up the cap and set the table for a GM to be successful.

Herm helped KC immensely. Even if you don't like him as a coach.

JFC.

DaJuan Morgan was a third round draft choice in 2008. Franklin was a 4th, Johnston a 6th. Are you telling me that they should have been cut in training camp?

LMAO

Brackenridge was signed in 2006 and Dacus in 2007. You know, special teamers and developmental players. Every team needs them.

Colclough was a former starter for the Steelers, Browns and Panthers. He was far from "young" during his 2008 stint.

You're going to need to better than this to prove your point.