Lets not confuse the two subjects

Funny how the 'its rigged' folks often point to cheating--usually by the Patriots. If the outcome is fixed, why would a team need to go to the trouble of taping practices and such?

Did you not see the media built up of this season's "revenge tour?" It's not all rigged, but it's sports entertainment. Games and seasons are influenced towards a certain result....period

There are books about it...there have been a lot of investigations that get squashed. You are risking, potentially, your life to expose powerful people... who have the means to make life for your family miserable. Is it worth it...to take on the mob and a Billion dollar entertainment corporation? It's not even a sport..legally. The corporate media would discredit them...

Not everyone is in on it.....it's controlled.

So...you ignore my point.
And I don't get the fixation on "sports entertainment." The term doesn't hold any meaning. It's just a description--people are entertained by it. Playing blackjack at a casino is also entertainment, as are many other activities.

[QUOTE=BlackOp;12093688]There are books about it...there have been a lot of investigations that get squashed. You are risking, potentially, your life to expose powerful people... who have the means to make life for your family miserable. Is it worth it...to take on the mob and a Billion dollar entertainment corporation? It's not even a sport..legally. The corporate media would discredit them...

Not everyone is in on it.....it's controlled.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm:
So what is a "sport," legally?

In 1989 WWF used the phrase in a case it made to the New Jersey Senate for classifying professional wrestling as "sports entertainment" and thus not subject to regulation like a directly competitive sport.

This how the NFL gets away with having unregulated officials...and the very core of controlling outcomes/point spreads. MLB, NHL, NBA...all have regulated, professional full-time officials. The NFL has recently gone a step further...routing all contested calls to a centralized "NFL Command Center" in NY.

Guys, the solution is clear... if its so fake and tainted, just stop watching it

If I honestly believed it to be that bad, I certainly wouldnt waste another single minute on it

Found this....

"1. Contrary to popular belief and to what he NFL wants you to think, there have been fixed games in league history. On page 308 of Dan Moldea's book "Interference" he lists over 70 NFL games that have been fixed and includes the names of the 2 referees involved in fixing those games. He also lists interviews with NFL HOF players most notably KC Chiefs QB Len Dawson. He, in detail with documented facts supported by FBI documents, has interviews with NFL players and known gambling associates to uncover massive game fixing in the league. He also notes, with evidence, throughout the book that no fewer than 26 NFL team owners have or have had continuous and developing relationships with the gambling world, most notably the Rooney, Bidwill, and Mara families all getting their starts as Bookmakers for established mid-west crime families and buying their NFL franchises with moneys earned from gambling. So that in and of itself is a hypocrisy number 1 on the NFL's "lilly white" reputation.

NFL Referees are part-time employees of the NFL. They are not employees of any team nor do they get paid anywhere close to the sums of NBA refs. NFL refs make between $25K to $70K per season. They work for the league and do what the league tells them to do. They are not there for "the integrity of the game". Referees, unlike other sports, are bound by NFL mandated gag orders which prevent them from talking to the media.

2. The NFL possesses an Anti-Trust Exemption to the law granted to it by President John F. Kennedy, which ultimately allows the NFL to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than sport, as well as incorporate itself as a single entity instead of the 32 separate "franchises" they would want you to believe. Contrary to the perception of the NFL being 32 separate franchises battling it out for gridiron supremacy. In a franchised environment, such as McDonalds (Business 101), each franchise is individually owned and operated and can participate in national promotions, have its own local promotions, or

abstain from participating (hence the fine print in commercials saying "at participating locations".

This keeps the regionality of competition in tact without having to compete on a national level. MLB has this status, the NFL does not. Instead, since the NFL has this Anti-Trust exemption, it is able to package its teams in order to sell to national television."

So...why bound your hand picked, unregulated referee's to a NFL mandated gag order? Obviously they dont what them talking for a reason...


KC also hasn't been to a SB since Len Dawson talked to the FBI...interesting.

Blackop needs to come to reality. Quit watching if you think it's predetermined

This argument never made sense to me. You watch TV shows. Those are predetermined. As long as the viewer does not already know the outcome, how does it matter?

Most tv shows arent put out there as "real"

If someone feels duped by something, they should either stop watching it because being fooled offends them, or they can say "I like being made to look a fool" and keep watching

I dont like being lied to, and if I felt the NFL was flat out lying to me... my love for it would die

I'm pretty confident (not that I'm going to waste the time required to confirm), that the refs of all the major sports are employees of that league. They all "work for the league" in that sense. I see no relevance whatsoever to whether there are "gag orders" for refs, but would like to see some proof that they exist for NFL referees in some form different from the other sports.



Sooooo many things wrong here. SO MUCH STUPIDITY.

1. ONLY major league baseball has a complete, general, anti-trust exemption. The other professional sports (ALL OF THEM, NOT JUST THE NFL) have limited exemptions which really apply to marketing/merchandising, and most importantly, broadcast/TV rights.

2. Second, the 32 separate NFL teams **ARE** 32 separate legal entities, with different ownership, management, etc. they are NOT a "single entity". The NFL does have broadcast rights for the entire league, of course, pursuant to its exemption. Which the other sports leagues also have.

Ugh, i could go on but why bother. It's a bunch of idiocy.

Oh...I find the drafting/building a team part interesting. I just no longer expect KC to be in a Superbowl. I like watching them compete...until the last 8 or so minutes.

I dont have an emotional connection to the NFL anymore...this season was the test for me after the Dallas/Detroit rig job last post-season. I just needed confirmation. Watching the worst rated QB in football be handed a title... off name recognition sealed it. It was just marketing/profit sharing theater..

BlackOp sorta rhymes with Black Bob.

Wow, I never figured the reason KC ain't been back was because of Lenny and the FBI. That's wiggy.

Dinny

Bullshit...they share advertisement revenue evenly..which is the bulk of their profits. They are 32 tentacles stemming out from one giant pile of cash. They cant sell their team to whomever they wish...it has to be voted on. Ever seen an official jersey without an NFL badge on it...didnt think so. McDonald's doesn't share it's profits with Burger King.

The players aren't important, they're just the pawns. There's plenty of factors they use to appease owners and regions of the country and the afc v nfc bias.

So who's in on it? The teams? Players? Refs? Everyone down to the clock operators, ball boys, the guys that move the chains, etc.?

Do you realize how nuts you are?

Mob/owners...vicariously through their gag ordered refs.

You're assuming the story is true to begin with.

Exactly.

Right, because joint ventures and partnerships don't exist outside of sports. Thanks for your (useless) input.

But if you think the NFL is markedly different from the other leagues, you're wrong.

The Broncos weren't even the best team in their division, much less the entire league.
.

NBA, Boxing, World Cup Soccer are all just as rigged as the NFL, if not more.

The difference is, those brands aren't nearly as compelling as the NFL brand, so no one cares.

We've been the best team in the AFC West for 5 years running. We're tied for the record of most consecutive AFC West titles at 5. Over that span we have a record of 20 plus consecutive road AFC west wins. This is our division until someone comes and takes it. You'll just have to wait until next season and maybe take advantage of the opportunity.

In the AFC for the past 4 years we have been either the number 1 or number 2 seed for the playoff with 2 Super appearances. Just just can't talk all that yank until the Chiefs do something about it.

I'm so done with this thread

They have :


http://www.footballnation.com/conten...goodell/25608/
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl,wp4565

Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy

Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln

They both got shot

You think Roger Goodell fixed all that, too??

:hmmm:

Goodell had a secretary named Hoffa

Hoffa had a secretary named Goodell

what part of-because its manipulated to be so- do you not understand?

yes dumb ass, the Broncos are always good,always have been. Its not naturally possible to win that much that often unless pieces are moved for you.
All this...because the front office is the best, the coach is a better motivator,the owner wants to win etc. ..are just bullshit story lines. You cant be that lucky with completely different groupings of people/players year after year after year,without some form of external manipulation

So all of the sports are manipulated, because we have the Celtics, Lakers, Yankees, Dodgers, Canadiens, etc.

And yet somehow nobody has ratted all of this out. AMAZING!

How dare you talk about the Patriots that way??

I don't know about NHL, MLB, or NBA, but Bubba Smith, Ray Lewis, and Terrell Suggs have all admitted knowledge that the NFL fixes games, as have the NFL's own attorneys, in federal court.

See post #427 - are you reading this thread, or just making random posts??

Okay, now you're just freaking me out.

not amazing,Its just Money and power.

you know tv is fake but you still watch. You know politions lie (all of them)
but you still waste time voting for one.

Kansas City will never win a Super Bowl.

See post #427

I was talking about Denver but both apply ROFL

dynasties are just story lines. no team can win that consistently in the real world changing personnel that often.

yeah right,its a copy cat league but somehow the Pats keep figuring it all out?
15 years? lol no

errr...no. Several players, whose opinions are overvalued because they were excellent players, speculated that the NFL fixes games.

The NFL's attorneys have NOT admitted that the NFL fixes games. Not even remotely close. What the NFL attorneys argued was that they should be considered a single, collective, unit for marketing and apparel sale purposes, rather than 32 separate teams, and therefore exempt from antitrust law. This is a narrow argument crafted by lawyers to skate through a potential problem. It is hardly an admission that the NFL fixes games.

Yeah, it's REALLY incredibly amazing that they have been winning this long. TOTALLY UNFATHOMABLE.

I mean, HOW the **** is it possible? I can't begin to imagine!!!


https://usatq.files.wordpress.com/20...si_8271799.jpg

Exactly - they're still running, catching (kinda), throwing the ball, blocking (kinda), tackling (kinda)...they're still playing the game.

Kinda.

It's still compelling TV.

Kinda.

Compared to everything else...well, it's like everything else - it's not as good as it used to be. It's too WWE, too flashy and metro. They have made an effort to appeal to a mass audience, and in doing so, have become a homogenized version of itself...

"Coach, how'd you get their defensive signals and audibles?? It's like you literally have their game plan..."

Lakers.. go to 15 finals in a 30 year period. Thats 1 every 2 years on average.
with basically 3 very different configurations of teams.

thats absurd. whats amazing is this dynasty didnt start happening till the Rams moved from LA to Anaheim and then St Louis. They made sure that major city was developing income . Notice now that the Lakers suck, the City and league are so lucky to have Clippers making the playoffs 3 years in a row into the second round..while being bought by who is now basically the top two wealthiest sports owner in the pro sports world = Ballmer

the other guy is the Seattle Seahawks owner

I'm sure they all had plenty of ****ing proof.

But that doesn't matter - I posted that in response to someone else saying "how come no one has said anything, DERRRP??"

and I posted quotes of where, as you admit, several high profile NFL players have claimed that games were rigged. "Speculated"..."admitted"..."stated on the record"..."said"..."accused"...whatever words you want to use...

At least we all agree that they said it.

ROFL

You're speaking of the antitrust lawsuit - I'm speaking of the 'Spaygate' lawsuit (in all fairness, the NFL gets sued so often for so much shady shit, it's hard to keep track...)

http://www.thefixisin.net/legal.html

I've often wondered what Marino did to the NFL. Kelly's is obvious by choosing the USFL over the NFL.

And for the record, smartypants... a dizzying number of people HAVE ratted on that count

what you are saying is you believe the story lines I just said were bogus.
no coach and no QB combined while every piece changes around them could win that much for 15 years. No ball coach and no QB are that innovative or that superior. Just 2 more dumb schlubs playing football.

isnt it amazing that both them and the Redsox have been doing so well the last decade?...and the Boston Bruins..and the Celtics owned the 80s..4 completely seperate sports and yet that region just keeps raking it in?

somehow the good sports fairy just keeps letting them get allll the mojo?

Marino was lucky he even went in the first round, after all the coke and whores talk made him drop...

He was also lucky he went to the Dolphins and Don Shula - who, after losing the 3rd SB that Bubba Smith claimed was rigged, went to South Beach where he won back to back titles, including the NFL's only perfect season. He went to the SB again in 1982, the year before he drafted Marino.

I think that Marino was a gift to Don Shula, a way for the NFL to pay back a good soldier - Shula got to pad his win statline for ten straight years without doing shit for it. One and done against the more established 49ers, and Marino got to be content with millions of dollars, and a HOF career with a coach who basically gave him absolutely no support whatsoever. It's like Shula retired in 86...

it had nothing to do with the USFL.

Reggie White, Doug Williams
Steve Young..kelly went to 4,who's complaining?


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3335/...f15e12d1_b.jpg

Marino didnt do anything. He just signed his contract and understood.

I know you're a smart person therefore I'm reposting a video and all I ask is that you watch the first minute and give me your honest thoughts without any judgement from me whatsoever.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AXlg_E2WTL0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And Philly keeps getting ****ed. Why is that, do you think? Does Philadelphia not have powerful mob influences controlling things behind the scenes, compared to Boston's? How do we get all the good stuff while Philadelphia, a larger metropolitan area, keeps getting the shaft?

Because **** Philadelphia.

Will do (in a little while).

Fascinating

Eagles do in fact keep making the playoffs, Phillies went to series in 2008-09.

Flyers keep making the playoffs. Sixers keep making playoffs too with a minor recent drop off. You dont have to win finals, making playoffs id enough reward for owner.
but yes, the Eagles havent hit the top,why?
the Eagles are the one team to have two long term starting black QBs.
Phila. is a region with a large black population.....this is a theory of mine but the math makes sense.
The Eagles are allowed to succeed better than a majority of teams but only so far

I'm pressed for time, but watched the first three minutes. That plus typing this is about what I have for now.

I would certainly admit that it is entirely possible -- indeed perhaps likely -- that SOME games have been thrown, or fixed, or what have you. The Black Sox scandal certainly happened, and the BC college hoops point shaving scandal. I'm not ignorant of these events. Far from it, having read books on both.

I also don't deny that money talks, and bullshit walks. Gambling is a vast enterprise in America, with tons of money behind it. No surprise if it could exert influence here and there.

But there is a VAST difference between a game here or there, or a player here or there, and the "NFL manipulates the outcomes of all games" type of thing that people here seem to be suggesting. First, a rogue player (or group of players), versus the entire enterprise, is a vast difference. Second, a massive, widespread conspiracy inevitably tends to fail due to the inability of people to simply keep their mouths shut.

Have you SEEN Belichick and Brady after they lose. They are, in short, very sore losers. Surly and unpleasant in the extreme, like many others in professional sports, they are hypercompetitive nutcases. You want to suggest for a single second that Bird, Brady, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, or any of the other obviously insanely competitive superstars that tend to dictate games intentionally threw one? Sure, there are superstars who might not care, but the ones that are famous for going insane if they even lose at checkers? They THREW games? That's ridiculous, I'm sorry.

Meanwhile, there's Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and others that were cited here. They claim the fix is in because of how "they wuz robbed". These same hypercompetitive athletes, unable to accept that they lost straight up, either start to believe "the fix was in" for the other team, or whatever. Let's face it, most athletes aren't really all that incredibly bright. Put two coincidences together or whatever, and suddenly they may start to see conspiracies behind every corner.

Ugh, too long already. GTG. Can revisit tomorrow.

you have no proof they care other than stories. You dont get to be the best unless you look and act the part.

NO.

That's a nice story...except Suggs and Lewis DIDN'T LOSE.

They were beating the pants off the 49ers. They both claimed that the blackout at the SB was faked in order to stage a 49ers comeback. The 49ers lost in the final seconds, but the NFL and their refs did their damndest to get the 49ers back in that game.

Dick Butkus didn't claim 'he was robbed' - do you just make shit up to fit your own narrative, or do you even actually read what is posted??

you can easily say they were told to say somethings up to make it look like a controversy.

That's why some players who look and act the part (JJ Watt) get more hype than players who may be better at the given position (Robert Quinn), but that hype also helps Houston sell tickets, in spite of their abysmal football organization.

You could say any number of things...all I have to go on is what they said.

You really think Dick Butkus was told to tell Olbermann on the airplane that the NFL rigged its games??

Houston has made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 or 5 years.
teams are usually successful like that before or after hosting a super bowl.

In all fairness the book is about certain games not all games.

no book ever will be about all games

But they've never really been GOOD.

Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, and Brian Hoyer?? ROFL. That's like saying Matt Cassel was a 'playoff caliber qb'. I mean, yes, he kind of quarterbacked a team to a playoff berth, but...

I mean, I get what you're saying - Houston gets associated with the playoff berths, the fans are placated, everyone gets paid (except the fans) and Houston is still a speed bump for real teams.

I'm sure if they listed details about every rigged game from the league's inception, they would have a multi-volume set that would be ongoing...

considering they havent existed that long,they are already ahead of the game.
funny how them,the Astros and Rockets all make the playoffs the last 2 years

But the Panthers and Jaguars both made the playoffs in their 2nd year of existence; Carolina was in the NFC Championship game that year, which begs to question :

When is the next Super Bowl at Reliant

&

Goddamn, how much does the league hate Cleveland? ROFL

Your first part is irrelevant to the NFL.
The second part is just made-up nonsense.

All made-up nonsense.
Rabbledipshit is someone who will bitch and bitch after Chiefs games about Andy's playcallng and such. Seems odd to bitch about a coaches choices while simultaneously thinking the game was fixed in the first place.

For the tinfoilers who think the NFL is rigged - Why watch? Why are you on an NFL message board? Why care at all, if this is no different than the WWE?

they dont hate Cleveland. Cleveland went to finals/playoffs plenty between the late 40s to/through the 60s.Thats the trade off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Browns_seasons
when you have a dynasty,you then have to step to the side.

its a little more professional looking than WWE lol.
I like sports history and sports helmets and uniforms and collectibles.
they are a representation of American history and an excuse to get together with the guys. The art and history of football helmets is fascinating to me.
I get to join pools and freak people out picking teams no one else does and be right more often.

damn dude! why didnt that 'Walking Dead' character actor go out the side door instead of the front ! what was he thinking, man!

I'm glad those two characters finally had sex together,its about time.

its just a show...and now plenty of white racists aint gonna watch no more :)

so tell me what the officials have said when talking to New York? I'm sure you heard those conversations..?

Why would a team even bother with signals and audibles and game plans if the outcome is already fixed?

thats the show dude.

the game plan is the script

After a while, these idiots start to conflate a rogue athlete or ref on the take vs the league, through a combination of refs, coaches, and players, fixing the whole thing. There's a huge difference.

Look, sometimes I think your trolling is funny. But 'the NFL is rigged' is just stupid. I'm pretty sure even rabbleracist doesn't really believe this shit.