See Twisted's post.

I didn't imply anything about Kelce or his age. There's a lot of football left there. My point is that having a 32 year old WR on the team for a year isn't going to do anything to develop our existing WR corps. We're already having discussions on which of the 12 on the roster today to cut. This isn't a damn the torpedoes, all in this year because it's our only chance to win a SB. This is a dynasty in the making and the only way to keep it rolling is to draft/trade for young players and develop them. There's only so much money and you can bet your bottom dollar Hopkins will be asking for a large chunk of that next year.

Basturd. LMAO

Darren Smith on Twitter


People seem to forget when the #Chiefs had like $2.73 to their name in the form of cap space in 2019 yet somehow found a way to sign Patrick Mahomes to a ten-year, $450 million dollar contract extension. If Veach and the Chiefs (ie, Mahomes) want D-Hop, they can make it happen.

if we get Lord Nuk i'm flooding the internet with Darth Reidius GIFs

https://media.tenor.com/uRA09XxmhJIAAAAC/darth-maul.gif

DHop said he wants to play with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Herbert or Hurts.

Ravens already paid a ton of money to OBJ, drafted Flowers with their first rounder and have another former 1st rounder in Bateman

Chargers have Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and first rounder Q Johnston.

Eagles have AJ Brown and Devonta Smith.

Are any of those teams really going to pony up north of $15M for DHop?

It will be Chiefs or Bills IMO. If I remember correctly the Bills 2024 cap is already wrecked. We will see if Buf wants to offer DHop an incentive laden contract which would hurt their 2024 cap even more.

Why is a 31 year-old WR, that necessarily takes fewer hits, and has to play a less physical style of play more of a liability than a 34 year-old TE, that has to play a much more physical game? That just doesn't make any sense to me.


And our WRs going into the season are likely

(Hopkins)
Toney
Moore
MVS
Rice


Do we really care how many balls the rest of the WR room catches?

And Hopkins isn't a volume WR. he doesn't need 150 targets to be productive. He's literally one of the few WRs in history to see over 100 targets and catch every single ball in a season. he's incredibly efficient; if you have a QB that can actually put the ball somewhere he can get a hand on it.

In this offense, he needs between 80-100 targets. With Pat throwing to him, he'll catch 70-85 balls for over 1,200 yds/8-10 TDs. Btw, if he does anything like that, then even Travis doesn't need 150 targets. More like 120-130.

Quid pro quo: Plenty of balls for Toney/Moore/Rice.

Pepperidge farm remembers

The we get a comp pick in 2025!

Biggest issue for Dhop is whether someone gives him a multi year deal for stupid money or he wants to win a ring. I suspect the Chiefs won’t offer enough (absent Mahomes insistence). They will likely take the same kind of $3mm-$5mm with another $8mm-$10mm in incentives sort of deal that Juju took, but if he wants to go to the highest bidder — even if it’s just the highest bidder among the handful of teams he’s expressed an interest playing for — then he won’t be in KC.

I think KC believes they’re in good shape with the current cast as well — making a pursuit of Hopkins even less likely.

Current Chiefs WRs 2022 total yards

MVS 687
James 569
Watson 315
Moore 250
Toney 171
Rice 0
Ross 0
Ross 0

...we could use the help.

Hopkins will want at least $15m to match OBJ, probably more.

Apparently, we can get $16m by extending Chris Jones and we have $1m currently available.

I don't know that teams bereft of talent and who had a losing record (Panthers and Jets) having to overpay to bring talent / names (Thielen) are in the same position we find ourselves in.

Gage's cap hit in 2023 is $7m to MVS's $9m. Gage also had 51 receptions on 70 targets for 5 TDs. MVS had 42 receptions on 81 targets with 2TD last season.

Coming into their respective contracts... MVS put up 430 yards on 26 receptions off 55 with 3 TDs targets while Gage put up 770 yards on 66 receptions off 94 targets and 4TDs.

With Gage coming up on a $16m payday next season due to the way that 3-30 contract was written up... I would be shocked if he is still with the Bucs next season.

7m > 9m

Buffalo is going to have a hard time making it work.

Who's numbers are you using, because that's not what I have (Pro Football Reference)

MVS had 5 drops (6.2% Drop Rate). Kelce had 8 (5.3% Drop Rate). Not saying he doesn't drop the ball, but just wanting to have honest information.

I don't think MVS is as negative as you make him out to be, as he showed in the AFC Championship game that he can fill the other facets of this offense if he has to, plus he very much fulfills his role. If he didn't have some concerns in dropping the ball and had an extra step in his lateral movement, he'd be a lot better player (but he'd also cost an additional 6 to 10M AAV)

Plus, it's important to remember that he was literally our 2nd option at receiver last year (so realistically 3rd behind Kelce) and got 687 yards.

Lets look at some beautiful data:

He was 55th in yards amongst all pass catchers (46th amongst Wide Receivers only), making him an average WR2 in the grand scheme of things, in an offense where realistically he is the 3rd option (if we go off of qualified players in Receiving Yds per game he fares a bit worse at 68th, or the 55th Wide Receiver making him an average WR2 option or a top 3rd pass catcher)

So lets run with his worse set of numbers, looking at guys around him in terms of production output last year (In terms of Yards per game), we see veteran receivers like Corey Davis (62nd), Mack Hollins (66th), Curtis Samuel (71st). If we include other pass catchers we also add Zach Ertz (67th), Dalton Schultz (72nd) and Tyler Higbee (76th)

Lets look at salaries...

Corey Davis 12.5M AAV
Mack Hollins Vet Minimum, had no other season historically over 223 yards
Curtis Samuel 11.5M AAV
Zach Ertz 10.5M AAV, Tight End signed 2022 (Same year as MVS)
Dalton Schultz Rookie Deal, was playing on 5th year Option @ 10.9M, Tight End
Tyler Higbee 7.25M AAV, Tight End signed 2019

MVS 10M AAV.

For comparative production from a WR, MVS actually cost comparatively than the veteran receivers around his production. Not a great deal by any means, but not the albatross that you're making it out to be. In fact, one could claim compared to those counterparts on that list and the fact their contracts were written before the Christian Kirk contract and before MVS contract, one could claim that his contract is cheaper than it should be.

I'm not going to argue that, but it's not an albatross and he's not awful like you're attempting to make him out to be.

Tons of players would love to play here but won’t take a discount to do it. Here’s hoping he is willing though. He is a FA so he no longer has to concern himself with who Arizona could trade him to.

btw Hopkins had 717 yards in 9 games last year.

With Colt McCoy as his QB for most of those games as well.

Would we rather have WR Deandre Hopkins or DE Yannick Ngakoue for 2/3rd - 1/2 the price or maybe NT Ndamukong Suh?

Hopkins would be our best WR, Ngakoue would be our best edge rusher, Ndamukong Suh would be our best NT... by a mile.

Some good options still out there for sure.

I can see going either way, however

The KC DL is good enough to win a SB.

The WR room is a bag of ? marks and MVS.

Would he though? Expecting an even better season from George this year.

No one will sign him until after the 4th of July. Too strong of a possibility someone mistakes him for a turtle. Then shove am M80 up his butt

You’re ignorant

Because he was literally the only option when he played. He was targeted 96 times in those 9 games. JJSS was targeted only 5 more times than Hopkins, but he played in 16 games and not 9. Those 717 yds in 9 games isn't anywhere near as impressive as people want to act like it is and is really just proof of how bad/injured Arizona was last year.

BEP level of stupidity.

Also does he not get any money from the Cardinals now? They have a dead cap hit, but none of that goes to Hopkins correct?

I don't even get the joke

You'll breed thankful for the information when he has another bird on his helmet

First, name all the FAs the Chiefs have signed the last few seasons at a clear discount to the market because we’re a winning organization. I’m very excited to see your list.

Second, we signed MVS in the third wave of FA because we had traded Hill and needed to re-tool the WR room. We didn’t have a surplus of options.

Third, you’re not even looking at contracts in a remotely sensible or comparable way. Both MVS and Gage signed for 3/30mm. MVS got 8.5mm at signing and then 6.5mm if on the roster for 2023. Total 15mm at 7.5mm/yr for 2yrs or 8.5mm/1yr. Gage got 15mm at signing and then 5mm if on the roster for 2023. Total 20mm at 10mm/yr for 2yrs or 15mm/1yr.

If a 1yr deal, 8.5 < 15.
If a 2yr deal, 7.5 < 10.

Happy to see the value we got with MVS?

Lol, like somehow it was Hopkins fault that he was the only option. Wildly silly take.


"JJSS was targeted only 5 more times than Hopkins, but he played in 16 games and not 9."

JJSS had the best QB in history throwing to him, entirely 1v1 all season. DH had three of the worst QBs in the league throwing to him, and yes, they force-fed him the ball because no one else proved to be reliable enough to count on. And yet, even doubled for much of the season, he still caught 64 balls for 717 yards.


It took JJSS 16 games to accumulate a less than stellar 933 yards, and managed just a measly 2 TDs, with Mahomes throwing him open, in Andy's scheme.

If DH had played the 6 suspended games (15 total games), he projected to eclipse 1,200 yards, even with those shitty QBs struggling to get him the ball.


Gee, I wonder what Hopkins could've done if he'd had a good QB throwing the ball?:hmmm:

Yeah, same here.

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="18792139" data-share-method="host" data-aspect-ratio="1" data-width="100%"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/slow-down-chris-rock-take-it-easy-relax-chill-out-gif-18792139">Slow Down Chris Rock GIF</a>from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/slow+down-gifs">Slow Down GIFs</a></div> <script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

Super stupid, sure...but BEP level of stupidity?

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/lead...e=NFL&rank=232

I understand your position and I thank you for the added context.

Career catch %:

Corey Davis (team with losing record) - 59.2
Mack Hollins (team with losing record) - 58.9
Curtis Samuel (team with losing record) - 64.7
Zach Ertz (TE on team with losing record) - 67
Dalton Schultz (TE on team with winning record but still on rookie deal) - 70.1
Tyler Higbee (TE on a team with a losing record) - 68

MVS (#2 WR on a SB winning squad with GOD as his QB) - 50.3 (51.9 with Mahomes)

I get it... this is one stat of many but it is, arguably, one of the most important stats for a receiver. How often does he catch the balls thrown to him.

Perhaps saying he is overpaid is an exaggeration. How about we leave it at I just don't trust him as anything other than a 4th option. I have more faith in Kelce/Rice/McKinnon as the first 3 receiving options than I do MVS.

I want to eat crow. I hope be balls out and you all get to quote me for the next 5 years on this. I never want our players to fail but I'm not gonna put on rose colored glasses regarding players solely because they wear our logo.

I hope you all see something in him that I'm missing but he seems like a whole lot of meh.

someone is gonna give him a pretty large deal you would think but maybe not. It would be nice if he just wanted to come get a ring but his window for getting big contracts is closing fast so I would imagine he's going where the money is.

Soooo....for anyone using Tenor for gifs, look at the code. See this section here? ""host" data-aspect-ratio="1" data-width="100%"><a "

Change the 100% to like, 30% or so and the Gif will be normal size rather than gigantamus.

(Credit to one of hte mods for showing me that. Either Bearcat or Bowser i dont recall which).

We have no money and we have invested in young wrs. Unless it guranteed another title we should pass becuae it doesn't.

Tada!

Interesting situation. The teams that have the space don’t have a need. And the teams with the “need” don’t have space.

I’d like to see it, even though the WR room is already overcrowded. But I’m guessing he goes to the Bills. They’ll find a way to overpay him, as another desperate attempt to strike while the iron’s hot.

That's ok. Because the Cardinals are paying him $21M to play for us.

His money is already set.

Cards will be paying him $21M this season to play for another team....

Gage has 79 more receptions than MVS, but 309 less yards and 1 less TD. I'd take MVS over Gage all day every day. There's absolutely nothing wrong with MVS contract, especially since he was signed last off-season when Christian Kirk got $18 mil/yr and Mike Williams got $20 mil yr. Yeah those guys are better, but they damn sure aren't $8-$10 mil/yr better. Considering the deals that were handed out last year we got MVS for a steal.

What I read is that the Cardinals won't be paying him anything.

We sign this dreadlock muther****er yet?

Pretty positive that's not how it works.

Still a lot of vets on the junk pile this offseason.

Someone will pick up the scraps.

Wonder too about Julio Jones.

They already did in the way of bonuses. He has that money…that’s why it’s dead.

.

/shrug. Idk, whatever.

JJ is probably done. I mean, he's 33 so maybe he has another good season left in him. But he hasn't played a complete season in four years. Hasn't played more than 10 games/season in three years.

did we sign this piece of shit yet?

The money is *really* on Buffalo with us second:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Where will DeAndre Hopkins play game 1 of the 2023/24 NFL season?<br><br>Buffalo Bills +110<br>Kansas City Chiefs +300<br>New England Patriots +300<br>Chicago Bears +550<br>Carolina Panthers +550<br>Detroit Lions +750<a href="https://t.co/xw6fkbAjwp">pic.twitter.com/xw6fkbAjwp</a></p>&mdash; Odds Shark (@OddsShark) <a href="https://twitter.com/OddsShark/status/1662150693518442509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Right off the bat... Ju-Ju at $3.76m (which went up to $9m on incentive bonuses) vs MVS at 3/30.

I understand why we got him and why we had to pay him. I'm just not happy about it.

No, I'm not really happy with the "value" for MVS. I complained about no other regular as much as I did about MVS all season long. I sincerely hope that D-Hop wants to ring chase, Rice balls out, and we have someone come calling for MVS.

I guess it was an exaggeration to say he is overpaid when compared to others. Every dude in the NFL is there because they can play the game. Him going off in the AFCCG was phenomenal and I'm grateful. Do I trust him as an effective receiver all season long? No. MVS is Demarcus Robinson with a lower catch % and WAY more expensive.

The Patriots have JuJu as their #2/slot guy for less than we have MVS as a 4th option.

Wonder where we will land on. Good luck to DeAndre!

The guarantees are generally already paid they just accelerate onto the cap if you had them spread over several years.

Either way Hopkins waaya top 3 paid WR during his time in Arizona and has made 111 million over his career.

Sorry, dude, but you don’t know what you’re talking about with respect to contracts if you think 1/ JuJu signed with the Chiefs at a lower value than he could’ve gotten elsewhere (still waiting on the rest of your list) and 2/ that JuJu is signed for less than MVS is getting right now. Not really worth continuing the discussion when you continue to make these claims after tapping out in 5 seconds when it’s clear your initial take that he’s “overpaid” was wrong.

It’s okay to not love MVS. He’s not great. He has flaws. But he plays a role in this offense and comparing a player who leads the league in average depth of target annually with other receivers like Demarcus Robinson is missing the point.

Adding to post count

He was spotted at KCI……obligatory post

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d10725c8f6.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Dude looks more like Larry Fitzgerald.

He’s still getting $21 million from the Tards for this season too.

From the looks of things, his base salary this year and next were not guaranteed. The only new money they may have had to pay him was his 4.5 mil option bonus. But that may have been paid in a previous year too, idk.

So in that sense, it makes sense that they weren't willing to eat any of his salary to facilitate a trade. It would have cost them more in dead cap just to get a mid pick back.

11 mil was part of his signing bonus a few years ago. 7 mil was a restructure from who knows when. Both of those had been paid to him at the time of those deals. There was a 4.5 mil option bonus that MAYBE they paid this year.

But the cards are not paying him 21 mil this year. Not how that works.

He signed a 1 year “prove-it” deal with the highest flying offense in the NFL with Jehovah himself as the QB. Yeah, I’m sure that wasn’t a massive motivation in signing with KC. But I don’t know the dude personally.

Did I “tap out” or did I concede a point like a rational human does when shown they have misspoke via exaggeration? As for by leading the league in average depth of target… what does that actually mean when his catch % is, on average, 10% lower to that of other players being paid in the same range?

you ****ing idiot it says boston

He took the Phoenix to Boston and then drove to kc

So what’s the latest smoke

Apparently he’s in Boston or KCI depending on who you ask.

I’m sure he was motivated to sign in KC, but do you think he could’ve gotten a better deal elsewhere? Do you think all of these players are clamoring to sign with the Chiefs and we’re consistently getting discounts? Absolutely not.

And you made an exaggerated claim, realized you were incorrect, and tapped out. It’s like telling me that MVS is getting paid more than JuJu.

As for average depth of target and catch percentage, do you think you should be comparing a guy who is regularly targeted, say, 5-10yds downfield with a guy who is targeted 15-20yds downfield? Do you think catches per target should be equal between the two of them? No. Hence, the guy who leads the league in ADoT should be expected to have a somewhat lower catch percentage.

Becoming Knowmo is happening!

To me, this is the whole thing.

Wanna sign for cheap, collect your Cards money, win a ring, and cash in? Sure, welcome.

Want a big contract? Nope.

Pretty sure it’s a running joke. That pic has been used in many “I saw him at the airport” joke posts. Maybe even going back to Larry Fitzgerald years ago.

Got it. I didn't concede because I realized I exaggerated... you MADE me tap out. :thumb:

As for JuJu...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-engl...chuster-21804/

Current Contract
JuJu Smith-Schuster signed a 3 year, $25,500,000 contract with the New England Patriots, including a $7,900,000 signing bonus, $16,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,500,000. In 2023, Smith-Schuster will earn a base salary of $1,100,000 and a signing bonus of $7,900,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,674,509 and a dead cap value of $16,000,000.

Though on other searches it says a 3/33 contract. Based on sportrac... it seems that Juju had/has a 3/25.5 contract to MVS's 3/30 which is what I was basing my argument about his current contract on.

I'm more than happy to be wrong and I would have to rewatch all 17 games again to point them out but... dude dropped/failed to catch plenty of short/mid range passes. He wasn't dropping/missing only bombs. Alas, since I can't point them out by game and with a time stamp I'm just gonna say you are right and I'm wrong and go about my day.

Cheers!

It like he’s new here or something lol

Yup. KC can’t compete in a bidding war with salary. Their trump card is Mahomes and a very legit shot at a ring.

No, not gonna happen. I've been told that teams don't get FA "discounts" because they are x2 SB champions and current contenders.

Go on... name them.

Did we sign this pos yet?

We did the motorcycle wave as he flew east

if it helps the team, I’ll lease my Leawood summer house to him below market.

Let Bart Vatch know I’ll pay part of his salary if necessary.

I’ll put the chances of us signing Hopkins at less than 30%. We’ve already made moves to fill the roles needed in the offense, haven’t we?

I can definitely see immediate surplus value of a HOFer like Hopkins around all these younger players for a year, but these young guys need to play to improve so with his age a 1 year contract might be a perfect fit for both sides.

He could win a ring and retire if he wanted to.

Yes. Odds say explore weaknesses. Instead of setting up a fluffy tail between the legs

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">People seem to forget when the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> had like $2.73 to their name in the form of cap space in 2019 yet somehow found a way to sign Patrick Mahomes to a ten-year, $450 million dollar contract extension. If Veach and the Chiefs (ie, Mahomes) want D-Hop, they can make it happen. <a href="https://t.co/X3GsSIYQzs">pic.twitter.com/X3GsSIYQzs</a></p>&mdash; Darren Smith (@DarrenSmithWHB) <a href="https://twitter.com/DarrenSmithWHB/status/1662201775192174592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, they pushed money forward. You absolutely do that for a 24 year old MVP QB. You don't for an over 30 WR. You just can't mortgage a chunk of Mahomes' prime for him.