Huh? This OF is pure dog shit

The current iteration is in part to O'Neil being hurt. They've also completely ****ed up Carlson's development.

And you're going to say Noot is ass again for no reason.

Volatile would indicate that he's had some good years & some bad years. He's had 1 good season, had an OK 60 game sample as a rookie & has been pretty bad in every other season. If you want to use WAR as your baseline, he's had 1 season out of 6 where he was above 1.4 WAR. You can't look at one season that is looking more & more like a statistical outlier & claim that player is actually consistantly playing at that level.

I mean you could argue that Kent Bottenfield was a 3+ WAR per season player because he did that in '99. But the lack of ever being able to duplicate that kinda means he's probably not really that player.

No, not ass. Just a bottom of the order borderline every day/platoon guy and sadly he's the best they have

Perfect analogy except Mo has probably made the owner far more money. You'd think that with the support of the franchise, that others from outside the organization would love to be the GM.

I'm willing to accept that 2021 was an outlier but also recognize his true talent is probably that of a 3-4 WAR player when he isn't injured, which unfortunately has been a problem the majority of his time in STL.

And when Garcia/Bader/Arozarena were moved, TON was the highest rated of the bunch. I'm willing to conceit Arozarena probably shouldn't have been traded, but I view Garcia as an outlier in terms of career development arc.

Noot isn't a platoon player and can play every day. He struggles more vs right-handed pitching but admittedly has been better this season. And he gets on base enough regardless if it's a lefty or righty to justify playing him. He's not like Carlson.

He's gone screaming past it.

Like I said, at this point he's right on Pioli's rear bumper...

I guess I just have a hard time calling someone a 3-4 win player when they've only gotten over 1.5 in 1 out of their 6 seasons. He was healthy enough to play 96 games last season & was only good for 1.3. IMO he's a 1.5 to 2 win player who had one really good season.

Outside of 2021 there's no true evidence of that.

There wasn’t any evidence of Garcia being that until he was 28.

I guess I'm not getting the point. Garcia getting good carries no weight in regard to TON.

Read the Mo article without all the ads. **** Mo and his lying ass


“When you look at what we’ve put on paper, it should’ve worked better, but it didn’t. The front office [and] ownership know we have to do something different. This is not the model we’re going to follow. That’s something we’ll take a hard look at [and] try to address it, but changes will happen.

When you think about all the injuries we had and how it’s affected our starting rotation, bullpen and every day club it’s hard to work through all that. We’re not necessarily waving the white flag, but all decisions or all moves we do are really going to try to set us up for next year.

When you’re trying to give your internal guys that first shot, the hindsight is we probably should’ve had some depth to cover for it. Dakota Hudson was someone we penciled in for our rotation, and he’s pitched almost the whole season at AAA. That’s a problem. [Matthew] Liberatore is a guy we wanted to give a chance to pitch. He got optioned out in spring training and ultimately has pitched for us, but hasn’t taken that next step to where we could count on him every fifth day

I still speak to groups, and I’m still out there. I think when [fans are] face-to-face with you, they have empathy and feel bad for where you are. I think when you go online and read what people are writing about you, there’s real anger. I’m sure a lot of people are calling for my job. I can understand that to some level. It hasn’t been a good year. We get it.

Adam Wainwright wants to come back and pitch. He really wants to prove he can do this. But there’s a physical element to this. Out of respect for what he’s done with this organization, we’re going to try and allow for that to happen. But we’re going to have to be realistic. If it’s not going to happen, then that page may have to be turned.

I don’t think the coaches have any fault in this. They’re handed the players. Unfortunately, it didn’t work, but I think Oli and his group do a really good job, they work really hard [and] they continue to do that. Their level of frustration is probably as real as the fan base.

Right now, I can tell you, we’re going to trade people, you just don’t know if it’s going to be household names or guys who are more likely to not be here next year. It’s easy to talk about what we may or may not do at the moment, but we’re not going to just give away players. We want to get some value in return. We want to get some value that helps us in 2024. And that’s really going to be our focus as we enter the trading period.

I think I have a pretty good resume. I think the history of our decision-making overall has been pretty good. I think, the best way to approach this is recognizing that we do have a problem, admit it and try to find a solution. We understand that. I’m not trying to sit here with you right now and defend what we did and blame other people. I know we’ve made mistakes, and we’re going to try and get it right.”

- St. Louis Cardinals POBO John Mozeliak

Our brilliant GM right before the season started. Mo was satisfied with the roster.

Cardinals prospects in Baseball Prospectus' top 50 update

33. Tink Hence, RHP, St. Louis Cardinals

Why he’ll succeed: Another Futures Game standout, Hence has a potential plus-plus fastball/curve combo—the slider and change will play too—which is top-of-the-rotation stuff. The fastball routinely hits the upper-90s with good ride, getting swings and misses at the top of the zone. The hook is a tight downer he can drop in at the bottom of the zone or induce chase out of it. He has a good chance to be in the top tier of pitching prospects by the end of the season.

Why he might fail: The two main quibbles about Hence remain the same. He’s an undersized righty with a bit of effort in his delivery, and he’s yet to throw a full-season in the minors. His career high in innings pitched is 60, and while he has plenty of time to get stretched out—he won’t turn 21 until next month—we don’t know if the stuff pops as much across longer outings and a longer season.



38. Masyn Winn, SS, St. Louis Cardinals

Why he’ll succeed: Winn is a plus defender at shortstop with one of the best infield arms in baseball. He runs well, makes a lot of contact, and has started hitting the ball harder the last couple seasons. His upper minors performance—while not overwhelming—is good enough to suggest there is enough in the bat that while Winn might be a glove-first shortstop, he won’t be glove-only.

Why he might fail: While Winn hits the ball harder in aggregate now, only a thin sliver of his contact is 100+ mph. That suggests he may not do enough damage on contact in the majors to avoid the bottom of the lineup.


50. Chase Davis, OF, St. Louis Cardinals

Why he’ll succeed: Davis’ 2023 batted ball data and performance was not far off Wyatt Langford’s, honestly. Davis hit the ball consistently hard last year with excellent top-end exit velocities. In a bit of nominative refutism, he doesn’t chase much at all, and his bat-to-ball ability got all the way to above-average after a swing change. The Cardinals have historically done very well maximizing out prospect hitter traits, and he has some real strong ones.

Why he might fail: Prior to 2023, he had major issues making contact, and given he takes a huge cut you could visually project that popping back up. He’s never hit much with wood bats, either. Perhaps his batted ball and plate discipline data is a single spring wonder?

I have serious doubts if any of the arms they drafted this season will ever make it to the big club.