Why does it imply Mizzou would have been a 3 seed had they lost? They could have had the 2 locked up regardless of what happened in the championship game. Even if Baylor was the top 3 seed, it doesn't mean it would have changed... that gap could have been large enough for the outcome of that one game to not make a difference.

No.

Losses typically drop your standing. Bottom #2 could easily be top #3. At least Jason King thought so, it was his opinion, not mine. It was the first time I saw anyone speculate that way, which is why I posted it. I thought it was an interesting comment.

You're thinking of it like Mizzou was #8 overall before they beat Baylor, so they would logically have to drop had they lost. I'm saying that's not necessarily true... they could have come to the same conclusions had Baylor won -- that MU won 2 out of 3 of the meetings, etc; they deserve a 2 seed. Like I said, the gap could have been so large, MU could have locked up a 2 seed regardless of the Big 12 championship game, even if it was the last spot.

That is a complete valid viewpoint. Clearly Jason King believed Mizzou to be higher than the bottom #2...Mizzou finished the last coaches poll as #3 with one first place vote, I don't see any way that they should have been a #3...but the committee chairman's comments could have taken that way. I only read them, did not hear them, so maybe it did not sound that way. Jason King is pretty respected, and he seemed to think that Mizzou was closer to a #3 seed than most folks were thinking. Otherwise, I don't think it would have gotten the mention in the blog. Like I said, it was an interesting opinion, and something different, so I posted it.

I think if you based the seedings on location, then Mizzou is clearly the bottom #2. I think if you look at the opponents in the brackets, I think it is clear that Duke is the bottom #2. Duke has a much tougher road to the final four than Mizzou, and I am perfectly okay with that.

I get his point about the "eyeball factor," and understand what you're saying... and for Mizzou, it seems like the statement is "they had the 8th best resume" instead of "they're the 8th best team". When 2-8 are so close, and one team's non-conference SoS is significantly worse than the others, is it fair to overlook that in favor of the "eyeball test," when the other top teams played each other in non-con?

It does seem like it's give and take with the top lines... you get a #1, but you get shipped out of region, you're pushed down to #2, but stay in region... and in Mizzou's case, I'm sure they weren't blind to the eyeball test, so while they couldn't ignore the non-con SoS, they put them in with the weakest #1 in a true neutral court setting. With 6 teams from 3 conferences presenting a challenge for seeding, it seemed to end up fitting together nicely.

Why do KU fans post in here? I just skip everything they post, so it doesn't matter. But why the **** would I ever post in a KU thread? Who gives a shit? I hope we don't have anyone replying in their thread.


But anyway, I like the set up. At this point, you have to play real teams. If you don't want to play big games, **** off and go home. I can't wait.

Your second paragraph is basically what I said in my last posts...Mizzou got the "last" #2 based on geography...but they were put with the weakest #1, and the weakest #15. I like Mizzou's path to the final four, and hope they can take advantage and play their best basketball of the year.

I'm a basketball fan. I post in basketball threads where basketball is being discussed. What exactly is the problem (other than your own ridiculous hostility)?

KCC is alright. I don't always agree with his opinions, but at least he is coming in here with opinions and discussion. Much better than the occasional Gayhawk troll that just wants to sling shit and leave.

I'd put Bearcat in that same category

Virginia is a scary potential second game for Mizzou. They are very similar to Bo Ryan's Wisconsin teams; they walk the ball up the court, use all 35 seconds on offense, play tough half-court defense, and limit possessions. We will have to grind out a win in that one, and it will likely come down to the final couple possessions.

I have no doubt UVA will beat Florida, who has lost their edge after losing Will Yeguete.

I'm really not sure who to root for in that game. Florida's rebounding took a hit, that's for sure.

I think UF is far more of a threat to Mizzou than UVA. UF plays Mizzous style which means they can keep up with us in the speed and three point shooting category. UVA will get killed by Mizzou if they play each other. They do not match up with us well. Only two teams in MU's region really do, UF and Marquette.

I have no interest in facing Marquette. That looks to be among the toughest draws for us, IMO.

Eh, we avoided Kentucky and Syracuse; two teams I had no interest in facing. We got slotted behind the 'old balls' schools that guys like Digger !@#$ing Phelps love to fawn over (jesus, do I hate that asshat). We'll always get slotted behind the old balls schools until we win something.

So let's just win something and shut them the **** up.

Like Denmon said - we don't set up the pins, we just knock them down.

Maybe if we don't play well.

But the worst thing any team in the country can do is try to play our style. And I mean any team. There's not a school in the country that's capable of simply going out there and out 'quicking' us. Nobody can throw as many shooters/scorers out on the floor as we can either.

The worst matchups for us are actually schools like the B1G schools. I'm trying not to worry myself about Michigan St. because I don't think they'll actually survive to the Elite 8, but a school like them an Virginia can make things difficult for us.

Go ahead and try to play our game - but there's a reason Mizzou paces the country in offensive efficiency. Unless we come out and simply play a bad game, nobody's going to beat Mizzou at what Mizzou does. And if Mizzou just comes out and plays a bad game, well they can lose to anyone.

So lets not play any bad games...m'kay?

Jesus. Take the time to read a bit. Most of us, minus Wickedson of course, are just in here talking about Missouri basketball & basketball in general.

I agree, but to me I don't worry about the Big 10 type teams as they can't match our firepower. Teams that struggle against us are the teams that try to play our style but are not built to do it. Teams like Florida and Marquette are though.

Missouri ranked No. 3 in the coaches poll, and actually got a first place vote.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

The only teams we truly struggled with were maulers like K-State and teams with a dominant interior player like KU.

We lost to OSU because L'Damien Nash caught fire; shit happens. But when OSU tried to run with us, we destroyed them in the next 2 games. When Texas did the same, it was no skin off our ass.

The teams that want to try to score points with us are going to regret it unless all 4 of our shooters come out cold. And if all 4 shooters are cold, either Pressey makes some easy buckets for Ratliff, or we lose anyway.

The raw matchups really aren't that tough, there are just some very good teams that are either premier for their slot (Marquette) or a little under-seeded due to some late struggles (Florida).

Geography is the only thing that really pisses me off about this bracket; otherwise Mizzou can win it.

Florida is Missouri minus the great pick-and-roll game, unselfish sharing of the basketball, and highly efficient post.

I actually am not 100 percent sure UF gets past Virginia.

I like Missouri's draw. Would rather have Michigan State in there than UNC, Kentucky or the Cuse (especially with their recent injury problems). I don't think Michigan St. survives to the Regional Final. If the Tigers can get by Marquette, I think they're playing a 12 or 13 seed to get to the Final Four (the 4 and 5 seeds in Missouri's bracket are the weakest, IMO).

Marquette and Florida both try to play the same style as Missouri. They're just not as good at it as the Tigers are.

I'm not worried about anyone playing our style and beating us.

Agreed which is why I say teams that are not built to run with us struggle when they try to. I do think this bracket is winnable and if we do make it to the final four I could see us beating UK as Vandy did and they are a fast jump shooting team like us, so that works in our favor as well.

Agreed, other teams can't run with Mizzou.

That's why officiating will come in to play for the Missouri team. If they allow maulers, we could be in trouble. I have wondered during the conference play how Missouri and Kansas would matchup against the shitfest basketball they play in the East and BIG. Kansas is built to play that style while Missouri struggles with it. One of the pluses is that speedier teams like UNC and Kentucky seem to excel against the slower roughshod play
How are the officiating crews selected, anyone know?

Now here is a well-thought-out bracket:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...anus-picks.htm

Look at the history of the Big East and B1G teams.

Generally speaking, they flame out early. The muckers and maulers don't tend to do well in this tourney. It's only when those muckers happen to have a Kemba Walker or 2 that they win anything.

The problem is that it only takes one loss. By and large, our style fits the tournament much better than the slopfests from the B1G and the East, but all it takes is one day with flat jumpers and a trigger-happy referee.

Jesus.

Kansas City would burn to the ground...

How awesome would that be?

Love it. But I could see the score differential being 20

Michigan State is the only real "mauler" team in our bracket, though. Marquette and Louisville are both finesse teams. New Mexico is a smallish mid-major (Drew Gordon is very talented, though).

Virginia qualifies to a certain extent, I guess, but it still lost 7 games in a very mediocre ACC and I'm not positive the Cavs even make it past Florida.

I got a Basketball Jones!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JIbp5C-5WXM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If that match-up is even remotely possible I'm roadtripping to N'Awlins.

I'd be thinking long and hard about as well.


So you headed to Vegas this week? I told the Mrs. about your trip for opening round and she said she'd love to do that one year. Maybe next year...

I have MU and KU both making the Final Four but losing in the semis. Congrats in advance for your historic run and an amazing season!

I honestly think there's a decent chance at a Memphis-Mizzou E8 matchup, and I cannot imagine a better way of getting revenge for that Sweet 16 upset three years ago than making our fourth* Final Four and keeping you out of your first. I'd be thrilled just to get to the E8 considering how this season started and the whole 8 seed thing, though, and would much rather see Mizzou make it than any other team in the region. Best of lucks.

*the ncaa can take away our banners but they can't take away our memories~

yee yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Damn, ONE lower seeded team winning on Thursday/Friday?
I know that you were only referring to the final, but damn.

How is Dan Beebe still on the selection committee? I'm sure he was pleading Mizzou's case.

You have Memphis > Michigan State?

How are your bigs?

Tarik Black is a stud and can definitely man up with Green.

It's hard to believe, but on paper Memphis might even have more talent than Michigan State.

It is far better than Jay Bilas's bracket. I saw it this morning on ESPN. He has all the #1 and #2 seeds making it to the Elite 8 with all the #1 seeds making the Final Four. Then he has UK the number 1 overall seed winning it all. It was a ballsy bracket by him.

His implication is off. The committee chair said as much yesterday. I'm paraphrasing, but he essentially said that there was a large gap between the #2s and #3s.

I thought that Mizzou may well have deserved the 4th #1, and had I been making the brackets they would have ended up with the top 8 in this order:
Kentucky
Syracuse
UNC
Mizzou

Michigan St
KU
Duke
Ohio St

If you go with the true "S Curve" that would have only flip flopped the #2s in the last two regions from where they ended up.

Kentucky is the vegas favorite at 7:2

Ohio State is second at 5:1

Mizzou is third at 10:1

True, but MSU has the X-Factor that Memphis does not. They are coached by Tom Izzo who is an outstanding coach, especially in the tournament. Memphis does not have a coach of that caliber.

What's up with the love for OSU? I think MU, MSU, KU, UNC, and SU are all better than them. I guess Vegas thinks otherwise.

Ohio State fans must be putting their money down early.

Absolutely true. Izzo is one of the all-time greats.

OSU is my pick to win it all. They have outstanding talent, are very good on both offense and defense, and a relatively easy bracket.

Where did you get those Saul? Here is what mine is showing from scoreand odds (all of the ones that are under 100-1)

Kentucky 2-1
North Carolina 5-1
Ohio St 8-1
Missouri 10-1
Michigan St 10-1
Syracuse 12-1
Kansas 12-1
Duke 15-1
Marquette 25-1
Florida St 30-1
Baylor 30-1
Louisville 30-1
Vanderbilt 35-1
Wichita St 35-1
Georgetown 40-1
Wisconsin 40-1
Indiana 50-1
Connecticut 50-1
New Mexico 50-1
Michigan 50-1
Cincinnati 60-1
Memphis 75-1
Kansas St 75-1
Florida 75-1
Gonzaga 75-1
Temple 80-1
Notre Dame 80-1

Tarik Black is an incredible post player. Not an incredible rebounder just yet, for whatever reason, but he's easily Memphis' most talented, imposing big since Joey Dorsey. He's also way more skilled offensively than Dorsey (he's just not as insane on the boards, is the tradeoff). I honestly don't even know if it's that Tarik's not that great a rebounder yet or if Will Barton sucking up so many boards from the 2/3 spot (he averages 8.1 per game) makes Tarik's numbers worse. His biggest knock has been, like Joey Dorsey, foul trouble, but he's gotten much better about that over the past couple of months.

Wesley Witherspoon is a 6'9" wing and only plays the 4 out of necessity, but he's composed and does a good enough job. He's not a "starter" but he'll get the bulk of the minutes unless Ferrakohn Hall is playing out of his mind or figured out how to make a hook shot or something.

The aforemented Ferro is a hometown guy who transferred back from Seton Hall last season and became eligible in January. He's still exceptionally raw and is ungainly as **** offensively, but he's an energetic defender and is learning how to use his size effectively (the knock against him out of high school, and the reason Memphis didn't recruit him when Cal was there, was that he was a 6'8" wannabe-winger who didn't play tough inside; he's made huge strides there).

Adonis Thomas will never be a 4 in the NBA, and he's been hurt for two months, but he's a pretty solid college 4 when he's called upon to play there. He's got such a mature body despite being a freshman.

Stan Simpson was the #1 ranked juco big man this offseason. He's garbage, I don't want to talk about it. I'd rather talk about Hippolyte Tsafack's wasted scholarship, because at least Hippo tries hard sometimes.

Which brings us to the undersized, unheralded DJ Stephens. He's 6'5" but freakishly athletic (44-inch vertical or thereabouts, IIRC), and even though he came into Josh Pastner's first recruiting class as a glorified body for practice he's become a fan favorite and genuine spark off the bench with his timely blocks and dunks. His motor never stops and he's been playing with incredibly sore knees for something like a year and a half now.



I'm not usually a sucker for Scrappy McGritterson stories, but DJ Stephens owns and I have confidence in him whenever he's on the court.


Honestly, I think Mizzou is the one team in the region with the athletes to match up with Memphis. Everything causing our struggles in November and December stemmed from immaturity/egos/players trying to figure out their roles. The attitude is completely different now, and it's glorious.

They feel like a "real" Memphis team again, which feels unbelievably arrogant to say but it's how I feel. They're so talented and play such amazing team basketball.

As do the other teams I mentioned. I don't doubt the talent on OSU, just think that the other teams I mentioned are better overall. I guess it is all opinion.

I have Caltucky beating tOSU in the final (and Wisky knocking off Cuse in the S16). At least I get to be really happy if my bracket gets busted early this year.

Also, sorry about all those words up there. I've grown to really love this Memphis team and can't help but go on at length about how rad they are. SLU is a really tough first round matchup, but if we get by them I feel good about our chances of knocking off Michigan State if the team doesn't start playing like a bunch of sophomores again (even though most of them are exactly that). That's not to say I'd favor Memphis over MSU, but if they play to their potential (which they've largely been doing since the Xavier game) the upset is a definite possibility.

Agree, and you can make a case for any of them. I just like OSU's talent and region this year. I like UK too but I live in the South and everyone will be picking them to win in my bracket challenge, so I want a different pick. LOL, how's that for hard hitting analysis?

I used to extensively research every single team in the tournament for days before making my picks, but with age I've come to realize that it primarily comes down to matchups and luck. For instance, there is no statistical reason why anyone should have picked VCU to make the Final Four last year, but they did it anyways.

Most at larges have looked like top 15 teams at some point during the season, but the lower ranked teams are more inconsistent. It's pretty tough to tell if a team will be able to channel their true talent by the end of the season or if they are maxed out.

I think that is best as the tournament is too much of a crap shoot. If things went the way they always should then it would always be the #1 teams making the Final Four.

BTW, ku fans, thanks for all the memories......OF US WINNING THE BIG 12 TOURNEY AS WE HEAD TO A BETTER CONFERENCE.!

That's a factor. I dunno about the deciding factor, though. Talent can easily trump great coaching. See also:

So has Memphis actually grown up since Maui? Or have they just looked like it because of weaker competition?

Yes and no. When there is a clear difference in talent, then yes. But look at VCU and Butler. They were not the most talented teams but were very well coached and they went far while beating far more talented teams. Those are just a couple of examples, but there are plenty of other teams out there that fit the VCU/Butler mold while there are plenty of examples of more talented teams losing because they were outcoached.

They've grown the **** up. All of the negativity is gone. They had a hiccup at home against UTEP last month that fortunately served as a catalyst for cementing the new approach. They're unselfish, hard-working, and making the absolute most of their ridiculous abilities.

C-USA is better now than it was in 07-08, and over the past couple of months this team has been annihilating league opponents (including several top 50-75 teams) in even more resounding fashion than they were then. They just set a C-USA tournament record for margin of victory (which wouldn't be relevant except as a comparison to the Elite Eight/Final Four teams of a few years ago), and since the UTEP loss they've won 7 games in a row by an average of 23 points. I honestly think Marshall had a good enough resume to get into the tournament proper and the Tigers absolutely destroyed their mature, talented team (with a future NBA player in DeAndre Kane) twice in the past few weeks (once on the road).

Oh the imagery.

I went to that game, and it was awesome. Maybe its just the OCD talking, but I can't remember if we remembered to turn off the conference lights before we left with the championship.

Denmon named second team All-American.

It was one of the funnest games I have ever attended. I went to get a pretzel about eight minutes before tip-off, and the arena was about 70% full. I got back right before the game started, and the arena was completely full. The crowd was into it the whole game, and energy was awesome.

There was a group of beakers right behind me, and one guy was a loudmouth cheering for Baylor/against Mizzou. He and the rest of his group got mad and left halfway through the second half. Seeing us extend the lead, with Moore's dunk the cherry on top was phenomenal.

I haven't had a sports experience like that since the 2007 MU-KU Arrowhead game.

Meh. There was a group of Mizzou fans behind us cheering for Baylor on Friday night like that. We all have our idiots.

The KU fans wearing Jayhawks gear and cheering against Mizzou was the lamest thing ever. Who does that?

If you want to cheer against your rival, go for it. Wearing KU gear to a Baylor/Mizzou game is hilariously pathetic. Thanking them for visiting Missouri while they left early was one of my favorite things about winning that game.

Mizzou was still in the tournament, though.

There were three groups of KU fans in my section. They were all fine, except the one loudmouth. It was still nice to see them tuck tail and leave before the game was over.

I bought my tickets for $40 each from a couple decked out in KU gear. They were pretty cool, though.

Yeah, I don't get it... I'll see MU fans do the same thing during the tournament when KU is playing, and I saw it at the ACC tournament one year when UNC fans were rooting for FSU when they played Duke in the championship game.

I understand people pulling for the team playing your rival, and if I was in Omaha for the KU games this weekend, I'd expect to see some light-hearted cheering/jeering from both sides... but, I've seen MU fans sitting at BWW cheering for UNI or VCU like it's the most important game ever, and then cheer KU fans out the door.... uh, congrats?

And yeah, I wouldn't show up after my team was eliminated just root for a rival... that's dumb.

Doing it at a bar isn't that big of a deal to me, especially if you aren't wearing your own team's gear. Even then its lame, but it's not awful. Somehow, wearing your team's gear to the game to root against your rival after you've been knocked out is WAY worse.

I am a KU guy and have seen it from MU folks my entire life, and to be fair more than a few KU fans as well. I just never looked at things that way. I have always wanted MU to beat everyone else BUT KU. If KU beat Mizzou twice in the regualr season, then in the Big 12 tournament and then for the National Championship and they were perfect agaisnt the rest of the country... that would be perfect. That and I am an old Big 8 guy and want the teams from TX to always fall short agains the old big 8. But I will most like pull for Baylor in the NCAA.

Yeah, they were wearing MU gear, and they were obviously there to watch KU. At least the KU fans who showed up Saturday already had tickets and were going to a top 10 (er, 11) matchup... I doubt many bought tickets after KU lost just so they could root against MU (it's possible, and it would have obviously been incredibly lame).

OTOH, WTF wants to watch KU play VCU, besides KU and VCU fans? If you just happen to be at a bar, blah blah... but, come on. I'll watch MU's tournament games for the same reason as any other... for the entertainment. I'll watch MU/Florida, but I'm not going to watch them grind it out with some mid-major... I have a hard enough time watching Kansas do that.

I have no problem with people cheering against their rival heck I do it all the time. But if MU lost the night before I sure in hell wouldn't show up at a game the next day cheering against my rival to lose. That is ****ing pathetic I don't care what side that happens on.

In general, I hardly ever root against other teams... it's not a high road stance or anything, it's just not why I watch sports. The only exception is if it benefits a team I root for, like when the Chiefs needed the 49ers to beat the Broncos to get into the playoffs.

But, oddly enough, I enjoy watching the Red Wings and Canucks lose far more than any other team in any other sport... I'm not a "root for your conference" kind of person (even though it would be cool to watch ISU or KSU win 2 games this weekend), but I'm not going to go out of my way to watch them fail.

I truly wanted to meet KU in the B12 tourney championship, but as I was watching them play Baylor Fri on tv, I couldn't help rooting against them. I think meeting them in the NC game would be the sports highlight of the decade so really hope we both make it, but it is seriously hard for me to watch them play and root for them to win.
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If KU met MU in the national championship game, would it be the biggest basketball game ever played by any teams at any level?

If you already had the tickets, going to the game and cheering against your rival is fine. Just don't wear your own team's gear.

This could cause bloodshed. Seriously.

2008 was bigger being that it was the only time all four #1's had met and the story lines were tremendous. (Roy vs KU), Calipari and his band of misfits...

Also the tourney set the record for most attended so there were lots of eyes on that game.

KU-MU in the final would be truly epic though, I agree.

You have an uncanny knack for saying stupid things. Kansas versus Memphis wouldn't be one of the 25 best finals matchups of all time. The game against UNC was huge, but it didn't mean as much to UNC.