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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2015 STL Cardinals Thread III.*** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296)

DJ's left nut 12-17-2015 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11958628)
He offered the largest contract in Cardinals history to the best FA pitcher on the market. A full market offer. We can't stop the Red Sox/Yankees or whoever from doing some kind of crazy offer.

They offered the most money in all of MLB to Hayward. He didn't want to play with us. I don't think there is a systemic issue with players not wanting to play for us, this was just a Hayward thing.

He got rid of a shitload of dead weight, Cruz, Kozma, Jay, Bourjas Reynolds, Choate etc.

I don't see how you can say he has given up on the season. As Hamas says...........show your work

You're citing things that happened before Theo made his play.

Once the Cubs got Heyward, I believe Mozeliak gave up on running with them. Once the Cubs brought their financial wherewithal to bear, Mozeliak packed it in.

The Cardinals have lost about 12 WAR from last year's team in Lynn, Lackey and Heyward while the Cubs have gained about 9. It looks to me like a team that already had a talent disparity on paper has simply been left in the dust and Mozeliak seems disinterested in doing anything about that.

And if that's the case, rebuild it.

BigRedChief 12-17-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11959252)
You're citing things that happened before Theo made his play.

Once the Cubs got Heyward, I believe Mozeliak gave up on running with them. Once the Cubs brought their financial wherewithal to bear, Mozeliak packed it in.

Really?Really!@$!!! He hasn't made a major knee jerk move in the last week so he has given up on the 2016 season?

DJ's left nut 12-17-2015 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11958823)
Heyward would also get on-base about 70-80 points more often. That's pretty damned significant.

Mo made a strong run for Price and Heyward, but someone outbid him. That happens. I'd rather that happen than be paying Price $32 million in his age 37 season.

Remember who won the offseason last year? San Diego and Boston.

Justin Upton is still out there. Maybe the Cardinals don't like his defense, but I've always been a huge fan of his, and his bat profiles really well with the team. Maybe he goes somewhere else.

For whatever reason, Heyward didn't want to play here. You can't make the guy play here, and I don't think going the route of the Red Sox is particularly wise.

Now if they sign someone like Gordon, I'll be upset.

I am in lock-step with you here. The only distinction is that I'm simply operating under the assumption that Mozeliak isn't interested in Upton (stupidly) and that he's going to double down on his run prevention fetish by chasing Gordon.

Which makes me wonder WTF he was doing losing Bourjos on waivers when he had a half dozen open spots on the 40 man. Bourjos gets you 4 WAR with his feet alone and gives you the versatility to get Piscotty more starts at 1b.

DJ's left nut 12-17-2015 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11959265)
Really?Really!@$!!! He hasn't made a major knee jerk move in the last week so he has given up on the 2016 season?

We shall see. When the man comes out and says they are not pursuing any more dynamic signings, that tells me he's not interested in running with the big boys anymore.

For all the talk about 'payroll muscle', they sure gave up on that road pretty quickly, didn't they?

Pasta Little Brioni 12-17-2015 10:46 AM

Why in the **** would a team give up over someone signing heyturd that's just silly. They aren't gonna pay top dollar for mediocre talent.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-17-2015 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11959266)
I am in lock-step with you here. The only distinction is that I'm simply operating under the assumption that Mozeliak isn't interested in Upton (stupidly) and that he's going to double down on his run prevention fetish by chasing Gordon.

Which makes me wonder WTF he was doing losing Bourjos on waivers when he had a half dozen open spots on the 40 man. Bourjos gets you 4 WAR with his feet alone and gives you the versatility to get Piscotty more starts at 1b.

I'm totally with you on waiving Bourjos. It made absolutely no sense, but I think we both know that Captain Dumb**** had some kind of grudge against him. Maybe he doesn't tithe, I don't know.

Which of course illustrates a broader problem--Matheny isn't just a bad tactical manager, but he forces the GM to make poor decisions because he won't use the valuable pieces in his lap and he'll continue to run out ineffective favorites to the detriment of the team.

I've said it before, and I'm sure people are probably tired of hearing it, but Matheny holds this team back. If the Cowboys can win a SB with Barry Switzer, then the Cardinals can get to four straight playoffs with Matheny. Of course, in each case they've been bounced out by losing three straight, which has to be some kind of record.

Swanman 12-17-2015 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11959417)
I'm totally with you on waiving Bourjos. It made absolutely no sense, but I think we both know that Captain Dumb**** had some kind of grudge against him. Maybe he doesn't tithe, I don't know.

Which of course illustrates a broader problem--Matheny isn't just a bad tactical manager, but he forces the GM to make poor decisions because he won't use the valuable pieces in his lap and he'll continue to run out ineffective favorites to the detriment of the team.

I've said it before, and I'm sure people are probably tired of hearing it, but Matheny holds this team back. If the Cowboys can win a SB with Barry Switzer, then the Cardinals can get to four straight playoffs with Matheny. Of course, in each case they've been bounced out by losing three straight, which has to be some kind of record.

When the GM is constantly releasing or trading guys just because the coach won't stop favoring them over better players, then it's crystal clear that the coach needs to be dealt with. Off the top of my head - Boggs, Kozma, Jay, Cruz, Craig, Choate and probably many others. Not to mention the criminal mismanagement of the entire pitching staff that led to pretty much the entire staffs' arms falling off by the postseason.

DJ's left nut 12-17-2015 12:12 PM

Mozeliak's radio interview this morning:

On FA evaluation:

Quote:

"I don't know if I can articulate it in 10 minutes...but we look at what future production is going to look like and we have a price point were willing to pay for that. Perhaps (after this offseason and market) we need to recalibrate what it costs to sign these players. But I still think our rationale behind these things are still very true."
Oh you think so, Doctor?

Really did your homework this year, didn't ya Mo. Wade out into the market after 2 guys, they both say no and your response is "oh...well I guess we probably need to figure out what we're willing to spend next time..."

Like I said, he got punched in the mouth and now he's bitching out.

Oh but it gets better:

Quote:

"I think it's most important to (have that discipline) when you feel like there's a lot of action around you. (If you overreact that when's bad decisions tend to be made). I understand (fans want to see action and a counter-move), but sometimes they're not there. Sometimes trying to create something that isn't in your long-term best interest isn't the strategy you want to do. That's not to say we won't try to improve or have opportunities along the way, but I look at our club right now and feel like trying to find an upgrade that's better than giving someone we already have on our club a true chance, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially because of what you'll have to pay for that."
Mozeliak and DeWitt do not have the stomach for this. He's shown his true colors yet again. He was just positive he was going to go out there, make his big time offer and come home to STL a conquering hero. Well it didn't happen and now he's limping around like a kicked dog.

BigRedChief 12-17-2015 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 11959417)
I'm totally with you on waiving Bourjos. It made absolutely no sense, but I think we both know that Captain Dumb**** had some kind of grudge against him. Maybe he doesn't tithe, I don't know.

There has to be something we don't know about. Promises made and not kept. Some kind of blow up but we will never know. What would we get for Bourjas? One helluva long shot. Not a biggie to me.

BigRedChief 12-17-2015 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11959530)
Mozeliak's radio interview this morning:

On FA evaluation:



Oh you think so, Doctor?

Really did your homework this year, didn't ya Mo. Wade out into the market after 2 guys, they both say no and your response is "oh...well I guess we probably need to figure out what we're willing to spend next time..."

Like I said, he got punched in the mouth and now he's bitching out.

Oh but it gets better:



Mozeliak and DeWitt do not have the stomach for this. He's shown his true colors yet again. He was just positive he was going to go out there, make his big time offer and come home to STL a conquering hero. Well it didn't happen and now he's limping around like a kicked dog.

Dude, you probably forgot more about the statistics in baseball than I know but I'm not feeling ya on this the Cardinals are cheapskates trip you are on.

raybec 4 12-18-2015 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 11960662)
Dude, you probably forgot more about the statistics in baseball than I know but I'm not feeling ya on this the Cardinals are cheapskates trip you are on.

I can't speak for DJ but I don't think he's saying they're cheap. I think he's saying they're soft.

They are in a unique position that almost no other sports franchise can boast, Mo and DeWitt know that win or lose they're going to sell 3 million tickets and they won't pursue guys past their antiquated price point to get them.

I can't speak to specifics but they have a delta in mind for what they want their margin to be (per ticket or game or however they've set it) and they won't make improvements to the club that put them on the wrong side of that number. If they want to be in the conversation to sign some of the bigger impact players in free agency (which is something they don't have a track record for) their going to have to be willing to eat some cost of goods sold.

BigRedChief 12-18-2015 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4 (Post 11960868)
I can't speak for DJ but I don't think he's saying they're cheap. I think he's saying they're soft.

They are in a unique position that almost no other sports franchise can boast, Mo and DeWitt know that win or lose they're going to sell 3 million tickets and they won't pursue guys past their antiquated price point to get them.

I can't speak to specifics but they have a delta in mind for what they want their margin to be (per ticket or game or however they've set it) and they won't make improvements to the club that put them on the wrong side of that number. If they want to be in the conversation to sign some of the bigger impact players in free agency (which is something they don't have a track record for) their going to have to be willing to eat some cost of goods sold.

Largest contract offer ever made by the Cardinals to the top FA pitcher that by all accounts was going to make him a Cardinal until the last day.

They offered more money to Hayward than anyone in baseball. I'm not seeing your point that they won't "pursue guys past their antiquated price point to get them." what am I missing here?

The Franchise 12-18-2015 10:54 AM

:facepalm: ****ing Dodgers. JFC.

Prison Bitch 12-18-2015 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11959266)
. Bourjos gets you 4 WAR with his feet alone

I'd love to see the math on that one.

Marco Polo 12-18-2015 12:33 PM

Interesting turn of events....Holliday has volunteered to start working out at 1B. But I don't want Gordon; give us Upton!

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/...ing-up-of-spot

Cardinals outfielder Matt Holliday is working hard at first base in Jupiter, Fla.

Holliday was said to be resistant to a move during the season. According to spies who have seen workouts over there, Holliday is doing it on his own to try to lengthen his career, but if he looks really good there, maybe they'd still consider free-agent OF Alex Gordon.

In any case, with the losses of Jason Heyward, Jon Jay and Peter Bourjos, there isn't much outfield depth in St. Louis. So they'll need to sign someone for the outfield, preferably someone who can play center field.

Holliday, 35, hit .279 last season with four home runs and 35 RBI. He was limited to just 73 games due to injury.


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