i'm saying Pioli signed Routt early on so Carr could leave and he could save Clark some money, and **** the fans.

Carr was tendered for a first round pick just before training camp last season. When Pioli did this, negociations were off until after the season. A team could have traded for Carr but would have had to give a first round pick. He never should have been tendered. He should have gotten a contract.

Right now Belcher has a 2nd round tender . He will probably walk too.

A tender is sort of like a mini tag....

Honestly, I think that's the point that Babb has been trying to make, Mr. mcaj22.

Pioli was hired to "get things right". He was not hired to screw around with bad decisions on HCs or make head-scratching, first-round draft picks.

In return for his enormous salary, free rein, and all the accoutrement associated with the position of GM, comes responsibility. And it isn't the type of responsibility you can switch on or off. Or, the kind you can selectively apply depending on the situation or the particular player or the particular deal.

He is ultimately responsible for every damn thing that happens in this organization ... from the candy wrappers in the stairwell to the end-of-season records.

So, yes. Carr's leaving rests on Pioli's shoulders to the extent that, he made no effort to retain him ... so far as we know. And, in the process, broke up a cornerback tandem which was, arguably, developing into one of the best in the league.

FAX

Bullshit.

And it's spelled negotiations. This is second time I've seen you misspell the word.

Carr's agent and Pioli could have negotiated a contract, which Carr could have signed the minute the season was over.

It didn't happen.

LMAO

The reason he was tendered was so that he wouldn't go anywhere and the Chiefs could continue to negotiate. He was absolutely right to give him the First Round Tender, otherwise, he could have walked without ANY compensation.

JFC.

Good. He ****ing sucks ass. It's awesome that the Chiefs continue to pass on ILBer's. Daryl Washington, anyone?


No, it's not.

We aren't who Pioli thinks we are.

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well Pioli has 1 get out of jail free card this offseason (franchise) tag for essentially 3 guys: Dorsey, Albert, Bowe

2 of them are guaranteed to walk. And really there is no excuse for that.

I know people dont care about Dorsey, but lets be honest. There is nothing behind Dorsey thats of any talent. And do you really want Dorsey to walk and opening the chance that Pioli might draft his REPLACEMENT IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE DRAFT. Because this place will explode if we take another d-lineman in the first round. And that very well be the case.

But yea. Bowe, Albert, Dorsey > Baldwin, Stephenson, whoever the **** would play for Dorsey lets just say Poe.

There is a gigantic backwards step and talent drop off of "Pioli's picks (guys)" as replacements to Herms.

It's an awful theory to consider. And Pioli has done a terrible job at it in four years

A lot of good points ...

For my part, it isn't that I don't care about Dorsey, it's that I think he's being asked to do something incompatible with his natural ability and instincts. Even so, you're right about the dropoff behind him.

But, when you step back and examine this overall situation ... and not just focus on the individual players ... it begins to look something like this; players don't want to be here.

Gonzo didn't want to be here. Carr didn't want to be here. Bowe doesn't want to be here. DJ almost quit the game a couple years back. On and on ...

That, my friend, is serious. Players aren't all the dumb jocks people might make them out to be. They understand the playbook of life as well as anyone their age. And they must realize that this organization is broken. Have any of these guys experienced the kind of extreme paranoia and secrecy surrounding this team? Or, have they ever been exposed to this degree of utter dysfunction? I doubt it.

When you have a team that is the home of last resort for NFL players, you have no reason to be optimistic about anything.

FAX

Who said Pioli never offered him a contract?

Iirc it was in the media that they had a standing offer for Carr that was around 7 million per year.

Maybe you meant we didn't offer to match the Dallas offer.

I'm not gonna go digging for a link though, as I'm not 100% but I do remember it being discussed.

That wouldn't have even came close to Washingtons offer.

They gave up #6 and #38 as well as the next two first rounders and change.

Even if we offered the whole 2012 draft AND 2013 draft...Washingtons offer was still worth more.

FTR both Pioli AND RAC said at the scouting combine that RG3 is the guy you "go up and get"

Pioli even said he would let RG3 marry his daughter.

Even Reshard Langford talked about KC being poorly run compared to the Lions.

Hey, Mr. BossChief!!

Below is an excerpted from a March, 2012 Fox Sports article. I think this is a pretty accurate analysis of what happened with Carr..

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The Chiefs have developed a credibility problem with their fans - team chairman Clark Hunt and general manager Scott Pioli say one thing, but their actions say another.

Never was the more evident than in the club's failure to re-sign cornerback Brandon Carr. Despite public assurances that they wanted Carr, a four-year starter who was coming off his best season to stay in Kansas City, they were unable to keep him from reaching free agency, and when he did they stepped back and were not a factor as Carr found a new home in Dallas after the Cowboys agreed to a five-year, $50.1 million contract.

That average payout of $10 million per season was much too rich for the taste of the Chiefs. It's not because they didn't have the cap room or cash dollars. They began the free-agency period with more than $30 million in cap space. Because they've not spent a lot of money on their payroll the past three seasons, there's no question the team has the cash stash to make things happen.

Money was the only reason that Carr was looking for a new home. The former fifth-round draft choice has grown into one of the AFC's better cover cornerbacks. The key thing is he's always available, having started all 64 games he's played since joining the Chiefs in 2008. At 26, he's just now coming into his prime seasons.

Plus, Carr wanted to stay in Kansas City. He came into the NFL with a very talented draft class for the Chiefs in '08, joining the team with defensive end Glenn Dorsey, cornerback Brandon Flowers, tackle Branden Albert and running back Jamaal Charles.

http://www.foxsportskansascity.com/0...blockID=690252

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Now, Babb and Mellinger (sp?) are both reporting that the reason Pioli didn't want to pay for Carr's services was to avoid upsetting Flowers. That is a football man's rationale?

FAX

If true, $7 million is an insult.

Fine, then throw in the 2014 first rounder. I don't care to debate value. The point is that Pioli should have given up the ****ing farm to draft RGIII.

I couldn't care less about some "mythical" first round lineman that would somehow save the day.

Thanks. One thing I don't understand about the NFL is the money/business side and how contracts effect the cap etc.

So another words, you can spend out the ass on signing bonuses, as long as the actual contract is under the league mandated cap.

Essentially, yes. I haven't studied the new CBA much and am unclear what changes will be made going forward ... or when those changes take effect, but that is how it has worked in the past.

All football players are interested in are the "guaranteed dollars" (and rightfully so) which are typically structured as signing bonuses. The only way the league could retain a salary cap and signing bonuses was to include the bonus as part of the overall contract and amortize the amount throughout the term of the deal.

To be honest, it's really more of an accounting trick than anything else.

FAX

The "guaranteed" money isn't really guaranteed. Roster bonuses are more en vogue, as they are "guaranteed" money for that year, but you can get out from under the contract easier.