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Tesla to blanket the US with supercharging stations in 2 years (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=273515)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 9724718)

Iter's not even really begun yet, and they're already years behind. Plus, even if ITER works, it's just the experiment and not going to be used as an actual power plant. We probably won't see fusion power in our lifetimes.

ITER is funded and has been under construction for 3 years now. It's moving along quite nicely right now. Of course there WILL be delays, there are always are. My point is that if we keep redirecting funding to half assed "solutions" it only delays fusion further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 9724748)

I don't count the science buildings as part of the reactor, so I don't count that as construction. The contract for building the Tokamak Complex was just signed this March. I should have been more clear in my post, so my apologies for any confusion. As for the project itself, the completion date has already been pushed back to 2022, and that's likely just the beginning. Heck, they just recently got design approval for a reactor component, so we're really talking about a project that's not even past the drawing board stage in some ways.

Also, one of ITER's problems has been cost overruns that have resulted in other projects getting scrapped so that ITER can continue, so I'm not really sure where you're getting the notion of funding being redirected elsewhere.

One example:

Quote:

ITER has been a thorn in the side of the seven partners—China, the European Union, India, Japan, Korea, Russia, and the United States—because its estimated cost has almost tripled since the final agreement was struck in 2006. This is particularly difficult for the European Union because, as host, it must foot 45% of the bill. When the full extent of the cost overruns became apparent last year, the European Union found that its funding pot for fusion research, which runs to the end of 2013, was short by €1.3 billion. An agreement was made to use unspent funds in the 2010 E.U. budget to pay for the shortfall, but that deal fell victim to the politicking surrounding the E.U.'s 2011 budget.

Now the three statutory bodies of the European Union have agreed to cobble together €360 million from anticipated unspent funds in the still-to-be-decided 2013 budget. Another €840 million will be found by shifting money from 2012 and 2013 budget lines for farm and fishing subsidies, rural development, and environment, into the ones covering research. The remaining €100 million had already been allocated to ITER in the 2012 budget.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencein...on-needed.html

Are you talking about it strictly here in the USA, even though the USA is funding part of ITER?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 9724715)

I'd actually be more interested to know about the engineering challenges facing the reactors.

I really can't speak to ITER as much as I can NIF. With NIF you have a hohlraum, which is basically a little metal cylinder that holds the fuel you plan to fuse.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...f_hohlraum.jpg

NIF has 192 lasers that they fire simultaneously at the hohlraum which are supposed to create the necessary heat and pressure to cause ignition. The problem so far has been that the compression hasn't been even... and it has to be. There are two ways to address the issue. 1)you mess with the hohlraum 2)you mess with the lasers. There are quite a few who think it's simply a question of increasing the laser output which is of course easier said than done.

They were making gains on these fronts when Congress and Obama decided to redirect their resources and scale back the project. They are still moving forward but at a much slower rate.

The most frustrating thing about NIF is that everyone agrees that it SHOULD work right now. They have met the requirements that everything we know to create the computer models say we need to meet. As with anything like this it may never work, BUT they are so close "in theory" that they could try one thing and get ignition tomorrow. Of course they get fewer and fewer chances to try different things with less and less funding.

Ok that was a very simplified version of the main issues they face at NIF. NIF is a mix of engineering issues (increasing the laser power, hohlraum shape, size, material, etc) and the fundamental physics issue of why it doesn't work now when the models say it should.

It;s important to remember that NIF is BRAND NEW and already people are giving up on it. The facility was supposed to achieve ignition in September of 2012. They are only what, 8 months behind?

Fun fact for those who have seen the new Star Trek movie... the warp core in the movie... that's NIF! (well parts of it at least)

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...n_Facility.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 9724757)

Yes I was speaking to NIF funding specifically. NIF is already underfunded and facing huge cuts.

I'm aware we fund ITER as well, which I support wholeheartedly.

As for the project details, yes it has been pushed back and I'm certain more delays will occur, it's a massive undertaking. BUT this is the kind of massive undertaking I support funding for instead of wasted subsidies to manufacture tech that needs more research to be viable. (solar) Don't get me wrong, I think we need to diversify for sure. I'm all about research money being spread around, I just think MANUFACTURING subsidies are a massive waste. Short sighted bullshit political cronyistic waste. (and don't anyone try to use this thread to assign blame to a specific group here, everyone on both sides of the aisle is guilty of this bullshit and has been for years)

https://www.llnl.gov/news/newsreleas...tarTrekBig.jpg

Another pic from NIF.

(as far as I know that is not standard attire nor does NIF have photon torpedoes... as far as I know...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 9724783)

Yes I was speaking to NIF funding specifically. NIF is already underfunded and facing huge cuts.

I'm aware we fund ITER as well, which I support wholeheartedly.

Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. As one who opposes all subsidies, I'm not coming from the same starting point you are, so I just didn't want confusion in case we had a point of disagreement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief (Post 9724783)

As for the project details, yes it has been pushed back and I'm certain more delays will occur, it's a massive undertaking. BUT this is the kind of massive undertaking I support funding for instead of wasted subsidies to manufacture tech that needs more research to be viable. (solar) Don't get me wrong, I think we need to diversify for sure. I'm all about research money being spread around, I just think MANUFACTURING subsidies are a massive waste. Short sighted bullshit political cronyistic waste. (and don't anyone try to use this thread to assign blame to a specific group here, everyone on both sides of the aisle is guilty of this bullshit and has been for years)

I hear what you're saying, and solar may never be the answer. Solar has been a bust for some 50+ years. Between regional limitations, efficiency problems and other issues, I don't just automatically buy into the notion that we're heading in the right direction there (something I was noting to Laz, I believe).