ChiefsPlanet - 2014 NFL Combine - Players

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Both Hageman and Tuitt have been criticized for being lazy and completely disappearing in games.

Hageman has had numerous off-the-field issues where he's tended to gravitate towards the fun zone.

Both are prototype in terms of the size and athleticism for the position, but both have question marks about their drive and desire.

We've got a guy in DeVito who absolutely brings it every single play. No, he's not an impact pass rusher, but the guy is strong like bull, can rag doll dudes and demands a double team a lot of the time. Just eats the gap like it's a big fat Sugar Daddy.

Walker has shown he can pressure the pocket on a shit Raiders line. Bailey can pressure the pocket in the right alignments. And if the rumors are to be believed, Catapano will be showcasing a new 295 lbs. body - and if he maintains his relentless drive I think he's got serious upside. That's four guys. We don't need another one, especially one with a first round pick that has question marks about their drive and love of the game. None of these guys like we have have any questions about their drive. They all bring it. Dorsey isn't going to draft a dude with question marks on their work ethic. He didn't do it last draft and he's not going to do it now.

No way, no how either Tuitt or Hageman will be the pick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10565221)

Both Hageman and Tuitt have been criticized for being lazy and completely disappearing in games.

that is the argument against just about every big defensive man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10565221)

Hageman has had numerous off-the-field issues where he's tended to gravitate towards the fun zone.

I think you are really over-stating things.
2012 disorderly conduct arrest. charges dropped.

other than that, Hageman had a rough upbringing. He overcame that. Those experiences (and the opportunity he now has) seems to drive him, much like Tamba Hali's experiences while in Liberia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10565221)

That's four guys. We don't need another one, especially one with a first round pick that has question marks about their drive and love of the game. None of these guys like we have have any questions about their drive. They all bring it.

DeVito is not a 3-down lineman.

Bailey is JAG, and will be a FA in 2015.

Catapano is a 7th round pick who is bulking up. He hasnt really done much to warrant the hype yet.

Walker has pass rush ability, but he is switching to a new scheme and is not prototypical as a 3-4DE. Who knows if he will be a liability or not against the run playing an end position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10565221)

Dorsey isn't going to draft a dude with question marks on their work ethic. He didn't do it last draft and he's not going to do it now.

No way, no how either Tuitt or Hageman will be the pick.

Dorsey drafts workout warriors, and Hagemon fits that description. Dorsey has already drafted a player who was suspended by their team for violating team rules in Travis kelce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc (Post 10565281)

Dorsey drafts workout warriors, and Hagemon fits that description. Dorsey has already drafted a player who was suspended by their team for violating team rules in Travis kelce.

He also drafts high energy guys who get after it on the field.

Fisher, Kelce, Catapano, Kush, Davis all put in the effort.

From NFL.com:

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A raw, converted tight end with a basketball background, Hageman is a big, athletic, finesse three-technique with intriguing dimensions and movement skills who fits best in an aggressive, one-gap scheme where he could fire into gaps. Will probably be restricted to nickel pass-rush duty initially until the game slows down for him, but has impact potential if he ever figures it out. Is still maturing, having endured a harrowing childhood to get to where he is today, and would be best served landing in a structured environment with veteran mentorship. Classic boom-or-bust prospect.

Pretty much sums it up.

He doesn't look good at all when asked to two gap and he's much better off on the edge versus inside. He plays mean and violent when he gets to the ball or gets through a block early, but there's a noticeable lack of effort when he's stood up or the play goes away from him. He gets knocked off the play a lot, especially when he gets double teamed.

The measurables are there, but he's raw and there's a lot of stuff that will need to be corrected and motivation found if he's going to be successful at the next level.

He was fun to look at/consider initially, but there are a lot of warts on his game once you get past the initial size and athleticism that he has.

Three clips of Hageman:

Highlight/lowlight reel:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GCsD1fs7CMY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pure highlight reel:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/h6VGw6D2BkQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All plays in 2012 Bowl Game against Texas Tech:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CHjCRb49ER0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Drafting a boom or bust prospect in the 1st round is a sure-fire exit strategy for a GM if he busts. I'm not a fan of taking big-time chances in round 1. I like chances, but the price is too steep. Take those guys after round 1. Less money tied up in the mistake, and fewer expectations that the player must be a starter. I wouldn't touch a single defensive tackle in this draft in round 1.

Some people are just fixated. That's all.

I think the NFL.com assessments that saccopoo posted are fair and valid. I still think getting that type of player @ #23 would be good value.

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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...orced-to-reach

Quote:

By my count there are close to 13 players that fit in the DE/OLB category depending on the scheme being played, and that should be enough to have every GM say they got the guy they wanted somewhere in the first three rounds.

I'm not so sure the same could be said for the defensive tackles, which I break down later in this article. As for middle linebackers and inside linebackers for 3-4 teams, it appears to me that the need far outreaches the supply and that could cause a few teams to reach for C.J. Mosley, Ryan Shazier, Christian Jones, Chris Borland and Preston Brown, among others.

In the secondary there should be enough corners to repopulate most rosters but the safeties may fall short. By my preliminary count 11-12 teams need a safety fairly early in the draft to come in and play early, but I don't see enough safeties with grades in that area. I ran these observations by one GM. Without giving away his draft intentions he thought with all the teams looking to infuse a lot of defensive talent this year it might cause some reaching, or as he said, "rushing" to grab talent.

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Film room: Defensive tackles
Here's what this film study uncovered to me and my top six prospects.

1. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh: Donald is the best one gap penetrator in the draft, which he demonstrated at the Senior Bowl. After watching him in the Notre Dame game I haven't changed my opinion. He is a 3 technique with the ability to shoot a gap or even hop over two gaps and get in the backfield. Occasionally he gets a little too upright in his swim and rip techniques, but he runs like a linebacker, stays on his feet, and can hold the point of attack against a double team. He is quick enough to play left defensive end when needed.

2. Timmy Jernigan, DT, Florida State: Earlier this year I had concerns about his stamina and the ability to play well for an entire game. Some of those concerns are gone after watching him against Clemson and Nevada. Jernigan plays with leverage, has a burst off the block, and is quick enough to line up over the center and hop over a down block by the guard and play the 'B' gap. He has upper body strength to torque and throw a blocker. His short legs give him natural leverage to penetrate.

3. Will Sutton, DT, Arizona State: Sutton is lighter now as he was in 2012 when he had 12 sacks from the inside. He has first-step quicks and the bulk to hold up against any co-op blocks. Watching the Notre Dame and Texas Tech games you can see the leverage, push and power he can generate. I like him more than the next three candidates.

4. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota: Hageman went to the Senior Bowl to prove he could play with a high motor all game long and was fairly successful demonstrating that, but questions were still there about him. I watched him against Nebraska and he was a rotational player who was not on the field the whole time like so many of the other candidates. When he took his turns he was effective and had two sacks when Nebraska's center and guards were simply overpowered. He has a surprisingly good stance and get off for a 6-foot-6 guy and may be considered a 5 technique end for some 3-4 teams. In spurts he's pretty good, but in order to go high in this draft a coach is going to have to be convinced he can do it all the time.

5. Ego Ferguson, DT, LSU: Ferguson plays in tandem with the next candidate, Anthony Johnson. Ferguson can line up anywhere across the front but is at his best as a 1 technique. He is stout and can hold up at the point of attack as demonstrated in the Ole Miss game. He can push the pocket but he struggles to work an edge on a blocker and get to the QB. At times it looks like he fatigues and, like Johnson, had to come out in a long drive that ended in an Ole Miss touchdown. Ferguson is a run-down player who will need to be in a rotation.

6. Anthony Johnson, DT LSU: Johnson is a heavy 3 technique and flashes some decent run ability. He tends to be on the ground too much when he tires. Johnson is strong and demonstrated a spin move as well as some stunt skills. In a rotation he could be an effective inside player.

A rotational guy with limited pass rushing ability is good value? Since when?

In general, it takes Defensive lineman 3yrs to develop.

Whether the player is Aaron Donald or Hagemon that player would be best used in a rotation. While I believe that Donald can never be a 3-down player in the chiefs defense, I think Hagemon can be at some point in his career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc (Post 10566447)

Hageman has just as much chance of being the next Wendell Bryant.

There's no reason, with the holes this team has and the number of picks they don't, to draft a developmental defensive linemen with big time attitude issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10566469)

Hageman has just as much chance of being the next Wendell Bryant.

There's no reason, with the holes this team has and the number of picks they don't, to draft a developmental defensive linemen

you can make a statement similar to that about any player. there are no sure things.

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Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10566469)

with big time attitude issues.

what would that be?

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Originally Posted by planetdoc (Post 10566476)

what would that be?

The guy would disappear for entire series' at a time. I've seen him play a lot the last 2 years. For all of his athletic gifts, he's just not a difference maker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10566505)

The guy would disappear for entire series' at a time. I've seen him play a lot the last 2 years. For all of his athletic gifts, he's just not a difference maker.

how is that a "big time attitude" issue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc (Post 10566653)

how is that a "big time attitude" issue?

Have you ever tracked the careers of defensive tackles in the NFL?

Some of us started doing it around the time the Chiefs took Ryan Sims.

Lack of work ethic is a HUGE red flag for interior defensive linemen, who have spent most of their formative years dominating people solely on the basis of their size/athleticism ratio.

They almost always bust in the NFL.

1. I would like to see that data

2. I dont think that "disappear for entire series' at a time" is the same as a "lack of work ethic" or the same as "big time attitude issues."

In Hagemon's case it could be the lack of technique and experience.