I got two kids currently in college. How broke do you think I am? :doh!:

A partner of mine has now sent 4 kids through St. Olaf, a private college in northern Minnesota, at the low low cost of just over $50K/yr.

Dude's spent just a tick shy of a million friggen dollars on goddamn liberal arts degrees from a college that nobody outside of northern Minnesota gives a shit about. His kids all had full rides from Truman State but he footed that bill anyway. So in essence, he set about 10 years worth of take-home income on fire. Can you imagine that? The guy's going to have a 30 year career and 10 years of it just up and vanished.

It is the single most absurd thing I've ever heard. How the hell can you even begin to teach your children about responsible decisionmaking when you let them do that? Now 2 of them are still 'finding themselves' and one of them is a paramedic...y'know, that thing you can do with a 1 yr certification course.

These decisions are hard but at the same time, some parents are enabling their children to make pretty staggeringly stupid ones.

Goddamn.

My best friend grew up in a poor family. Very poor. Like his Mom came to this country and they lived in a trailer as a kid kind of poor.
My buddy didn't make any excuses. He went to community college and worked full-time to do what he could. Graduated with his associates, got some scholarships and finished his last 2 years at a D1 school in the ROTC program. College paid for, masters degree paid for and now he's serving in the Air Force in a technical role making 85k as a 28 year old with an education diverse enough to land him a good job damn near anywhere if he chooses to get out of the military.

More kids needs to work hard like him.

I've been told by the time my 3 and 1 year old get to college age, ine gonna end up needing about half a mil for them to go to college at state schools and the such.

No thanks

Crazy.

At least my kids are both going into engineering fields at state schools and have been able to get some scholarships but it is still bloomin' expensive.

I suppose it's a lot less to forge a degree than to pay for one.

I am so broke, I asked Vince Young for a loan.

The problem is High School administration seems to pump up College as the way to success and put down Trade School To me that is totally stupid of them. Also alot of HS has done away with most trade type classes, I know they are under tight budgets but that does not help either.

I think the problem is not so much going to college, it's going without a plan. To many kids go to college and plan to "figure out" what they want to do once they get there.

Doesn't work out so well

The problem is by the time that becomes a thing, our gubbment will create a cheap foreign worker plan to import cheap labor and those jobs will not longer be available to American Born Citizens.

:rolleyes:

That makes literally no sense at all. First, it's a thing NOW. And it's a rapidly growing thing.

Finally, the H1B etc. visas are a completely separate hot tpic for discussion, but given the degree of technical competence, and limitations on immigration, this field isn't going to be dominated by foreigners like farm work.

You can't just blame schools though.

Education is self-driving. Both my wife and I have graduate degrees and were the kid to not at least get a college degree, we'd see that as 'backsliding' a bit.

As more and more people get degrees, they'll expect their children to do so as well.

It's a natural progression but at the same time, it has definitely led to some unrealistic expectations. No - not everyone is 'college material' or would benefit from 4 years removed from the workforce at the cost of a six figure debt.

I'm so broke I can't even PAY attention!

Things are so bad here,I've got to jack the dog just to feed the cat

It does make sense to me, busting your ass getting a certification or a degree, going broke spending money on it thinking you can get a good job and pay back the loan. Then WHAM you get out of school to find the job market flooded with cheap foreign labor, that not only makes it hard to find a job, but also devalues salaries.

1. the number of skilled laborers coming into the country is limited.

2. this would be a skilled field

3. there is an NSA certification of some sort for this type of field. You think lots and lots of foreigners will have this certification?

4. this entire field is exploding, as hacks and viruses proliferate. Not only US government, but increasingly all types of private enterprise are being targetted.


This isn't picking fruit, or a call-center type position. While it's certainly possible that some jobs get offshored, this field is growing so rapidly that demand will greatly outpace supply. Besides, are huge U.S. companies really going to offshore THEIR IT SECURITY?!

"Let's ship our IT security jobs to China because we're worried about Chinese hackers!"

It would not surprise me at all if they do that, they are worried more about the bottom line and the shareholders. Plus the foreign schools have a ton of shady certificates and degrees. We will see though, I really hope you are correct.

Sorry to hear that, Rico. Weren't you going to school to be a nurse? I thought that was about as solid a career path as it gets these days. At least as far as job availability and a decent salary floor are concerned.

Here's my worry - when I was in high school everyone was pushing computer science/programming degrees.

And sure, there was some sense to that, but when you're on the cutting edge of a field, you'll spend your entire career looking over your shoulder. The technology sector is terrifying because every 5 years a new brood of employees that are cheaper than you and more fully immersed in the most recent round of technology (the stuff that came AFTER the stuff you were trained on) will be unleashed.

Most of the computer science kids ended up working at Geico manning call centers. Or ended up getting shuffled into apple to work in the mall and poke away at phones all day.

Chasing the 'hot' sector strikes me as a good way to get lost in a morass. In the end, we may be heading towards that socialist utopia either way. It may become more and more difficult to distinguish yourself and as the 'traditional' jobs start to phase out, those time-tested paths to advancement are more and more archaic (y'know, paying dues and working hard).

It looks more and more to me like future success is going to be as much about blind ****ing luck as it will be skill-sets or education.

Wait....really?

Damn man, if you finished up, go be a traveling nurse. That's a six figure income if you're not tied down and you'll get great experience.

Not really sure where you lived 25 years ago, but college wasn't relatively inexpensive back then. That's part of the reason why I never went....well that coupled with the fact that college life just wasn't something I cherished doing.

I've taken college courses along the way, expanded my educational base in my industry and kept myself ahead of the learning curve technologically.

I don't have my degree (and that's nothing I am proud of) but I have made a good living. I have had to bust my butt, and work 2 times as hard as the guy with a degree to prove I am just as capable. But I have been lucky that companies have seen my experience as more a factor than a degree I might have obtained 35 or more years ago.

And in many cases I have had associates on my teams who had advanced degrees who are making at the level you state above just because they have to take "secondary" jobs because the jobs in their fields aren't plentiful.

Oh....and Rico, I feel bad for you man. I see people in your situation all the time. In life the choices that people make, or sometimes circumstances beyond a person's control, put them in positions where they are left with few choices but to take the path you are having to take.

So I shouldn't have went to college?

Where did anyone say that?

Lay off O.City.

He's probably drunk by himself in a closed bar again.

I'm not saying it was cheap in absolute terms, but relative to today, college cost NOTHING back then. For you, you were able to take some classes here and there, didn't get a degree, but you're generally OK. For kids today, if they take a few classes here and there but don't put them to good use, it can set them back a decade financially.

http://inflationdata.com/articles/wp.../education.jpg

I Hate Big College

I think he may be referring to my post....and my answer to him would be the same one I gave my kids. Don't go down the path I did because it's not the easiest way to go and not everyone has the drive to succeed that way.

I thought so too?

And it's a great profession. Lots of jobs everywhere. And you're right, if you can swing a travel gig, even 8-13 weeks somewhere, you'll make amazing money.

Rico?

No one.

I'm not drunk again.

I went to college for 8 years and have to deal with shit like this. (Not for the weak stomachs)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGsIdkLPzdu/

Obviously, that's not my case, but it's not a rarity to see stuff like that.

OMG is that cheese?

Nope. Calculus. Tarter whatever you go by.

Basically calcified plaque.

I'm in the tech field so I definitely see what you're describing. Most of the time the people who are laid off are the ones who are lazy and don't try to get better. Certifications like CCNA and PMP+expereince keep you in.

You really need to add to your knowledge on a yearly basis to keep your value. Some people hate it, but I guess I'm the other type that loves it.

GOD
DAMN

Then why the comment?

Is that seriously from someone who NEVER brushes their teeth?

Because that's an insane amount. Wow.

Tongue in cheek joke?

Yes. That's pretty severe oral hygiene

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9onbJfiLCV0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Woke up this morning
My dog was dead
Someone disliked him
And shot him through the head
I woke up this morning
And my cat had died
I'm gonna miss her
Sat down and cried
Came home this evening
My hog was gone
The people here don't like me
I think I'll soon move on
And now somethin's happened
That would make a saint frown
I turned my back and
My house burned down
Woke up this morning
My dog was dead
Someone disliked him
And shot him through the head
I woke up this morning
And my cat had died
Don't you know I'm gonna miss her
Sat down and cried

Hammer and chisel would fix that right up

I could retire if I wanted to sell all my property, live in some shack in Vegas and get drunk all day like Leaving Las Vegas. I think I could make it a couple decades on the money I would have

Not even close to broke, not even close to rich though either. My wife's BSN and my BBA are done and paid for completely (so nice to say that). I have a year worth of expenses in my savings account, I have 4k cash in our safe at our house for emergency needs. We have a nice, but reasonable house that we have a 30year mortgage on (meh), she drives an 09 Highlander (paying on) I have a 04 Odyssey that we paid cash on, I have a 99 K1500 Silverado that has a touch over 100k miles we paid cash for. We have a 7month old, we are very frugal, but can splurge if/when we want because of our aforementioned frugality. We are trying to stock away money for retirement, the only thing materialistic that I do want is a barn or outbuilding. I didn't think that not having an outbuilding or barn would be a big deal, but it sucks. My dad had 2 massive barns and 3 smaller barns on his old property and I think I took that for granted. Barns/outbuildings are just stupid money. No way in hell and I spending 40-50k for a decent barn, I am not mortgaging away our future for a want not a need.

Who do you place most of the blame with? :hmmm:

Amen. I am a lawyer, and any time anyone asks me about law school I do my best to persuade them to do something else. When I speak at the career fair at my kid's school, I make sure the kids know that law is nothing like what they see in the movies or on TV, and it sure as heck isn't the way to get rich.

I have a law degree, an MBA, and a Bachelor's in finance with minors in management and economics. Financially speaking, going to college was the absolute worst decision I ever made.

That's not to say I'm poor; my salary is above the national average, and if you only looked at that you would think that I have a fairly decent job. However, when you figure in all the money spent on my degrees, plus all the years of my life that I wasted in getting them, I would have been much, MUCH better off going to a trade school right out of high school.

If I could do it all over again, I would go to trade school and learn to weld or become an electrician or HVAC tech. Maybe a plumber. I don't know; any job that doesn't take years of your life and $100K to learn, and cannot be shipped off to a call center in India, so you would have good job security and wage growth.

A figure came out at the end of 2015 that said around 60% of people have less than $1,000 saved.


That's an astonishing figure.

Yeah

that's pretty bad

WTF are we going to do when all of those people decide to retire?

Social security will hold up for a little while, but at this point, anyone under the age of 50 or so who is counting on it may be in for a rude awakening.

Jesus...

Yeah, my savings definitely do NOT count on it

Depends on how you define broke.

I've been broke before, and I ain't planning to ever go back.

I just turned 50. I plan on having enough money to do whatever the hell I want and to live comfortably through my 80's. If I live longer than that, I will probably be a financial and medical burden to my wife and kids. At that point, I'm sure my kids will be plotting to kill me

We are doing okay on just what I make but my wife can't work (and get paid, her clinicals are a 40 hour a week job for two years unpaid) while in school doing her DNAP. Doing the whole one income thing sucks. Especially given we bought our house over three years ago when we both worked so our income to debt ratios are way off. We are getting by but I certainly can't buy some things I would like such as new golf clubs.

But when she is done it will definitely be worth it. Spending a lot on school is not a bad thing if done wisely. We are really racking up the student debt with her but when you are guaranteed a minimum starting salary of 140k with the potential for 180k right out of college that's a good investment.

Circle of life goes like this.

Your born
Parents put diapers on you so you can poop your pants.

You grow old
Your kids put diapers on you so you can poop your pants.

...once a man, twice a child.

Nope, still live debt free... bought me a Ram a couple years ago , did finance it to get the 5k discount but payed it off in full as soon as first payment came due.. replaced all the money I bought it with + about 25k... It's easy to save money when everything is paid for

We surely don't count on it. I leave it completely out of our retirement planning, meaning we invest and save more so that we can meet out retirement amount goal with it not included. If Social Security is there for us 30+ years down the road, we will be very financially secure. If it's not, we should be fine as well.

Would you rather die with $10,000,000 in the assets you can't take with you or die with $10,000,000 in debt that no one can ever collect from you? :hmmm:

I've lived a life of extremes

HIGH SIDE: flying business class 17 times to Hong Kong and Beijing for business, riding in limousines, flying in helicopters several times, owning a brand new Jaguar in 1986 at 23 years old, having $5,000 cash in my pocket all the time when I was in my early twenties, tons of hot escorts, eating and drinking at great restaurants, buying 5 houses in 1983 for rental properties, having a net worth of $8,000,000-$12,000,000 in 1999 during the dot com bubble, taking a 11 week vacation in 1987 to Fiji, New Zealand, Australia for a month, Barbados, Rio De Janiero 2 weeks, Cayman Islands, visiting 38 countries in my life

LOW SIDE: working for over 11 companies that didn't make it as startups or young businesses where I lost my job, selling all my belongings to have money for food and shelter in San Fran after a business collapse, sleeping in my for for 4 months, having a business I invested a lot of money and time into collapse after 5 years because a partner and his wife were secret crack and heroin addicts, losing my $25,000 deposit from a brand new home in Scottsdale's Pinnacle Canyon neighborhood because I took the money they gave me back and invested in Lucent on margin and it went to $6 from $45, working for 2 years for a startup at $20,000 a year in the DC area, having a crazy ex-girlfriend cost you $20,000 when you are just getting back in financial shape.

IT'S BEEN A CRAZY RIDE!!! :eek:

Never did count on it. I know I did not save enough the first few years-but feel comfortable now. Unless some President comes in and takes all of it.

Already looking at retirement options. Even though I have kids not out of college until 2026.

Sorry to hear that.. Hang tough man, it'll all work out...

I steer a lot of young people towards trade schools. Most have no idea they even exist. Going to college is all they've ever been taught.

We have a 21 year old, 2nd year apprentice, that will make $60,000+ this year and probably around $80,000 when he reaches his fifth year. He won't be a millionaire, but that's pretty good money for his age.

Plus, our retirement is pretty damn good. I have my 401k plus a pension that will pay me $70,000/year at age 60 and 6 months.

We also have trade schools for miners. I know quite a few miners pulling in six-figures.

:eek: holy shit. That is a hell of a roller coaster, my friend

This is the anti-Amnorix. I'm a plodder. Slow buildup of wealth. A definitely lack of crazy excitement. Riding on the edge and holding on to the life isn't for me.

What you describe as your life is basically my worst nightmare. And mine is probably yours. :D

Oh, and to answer your question -- die with $10 million, because my retirement years and last few years will definitely be a helluva lot better if I have a mountain of cash, not a mountain of debt!

Life is good...

This.

Wish i had just gone to trade school. I went to school for Graphic Design. While in HS, i did RoP courses for Auto Body.

In my current line of work, i use skills learned from both, but it was my Auto Body courses that got my foot in the door here.

Craftsmen make damn good money and they generally aren't saddled with debt either. AND they get to make cool shit that they can stand back and be proud of. AND their craft generally keeps them in good working shape.

What would be yor advice for under 50 people who want to save for retirement? Obviously there's 401k, living below your means and getting rid of debt, but I'm trying to have multiple streams of revenue to my retirement and I want to start early.

I've looked at the stock market, but dividedend stocks seem to only be worth it for people who can put a lot in initially and buy a lot of stock.

Advice welcome from all. It's been on my mind for awhile and I'm always open to older folks who have experience.

My best advice is to die before you retire.

Do you own your own home?

Here's how I started moving forward with it some time ago:

1) Invested in 401K up to company match

2) Cut expenses to the bare minimum, but still enjoyed my life. Just trimmed cable, phone, electricity, etc. costs)

3) Paid off credit cards

4) Save, save, save up to 1yr living expenses

5) Once there, moved living expenses to IRA. Basically a living expense savings account now as I can draw off it if needed without penalty or interest. Repaying it is just replenishing the account. The interest sort of covers the cost of living increases.

6) Increased my 401K investment as it was doing great at the time. Still is. (Fidelity).

7) Anything left after that to invest? I have my 401K company doing other investments for me. Now I just look at my 401K and which companies are doing best in my funds/indexes and move money to them if the trend is right. And my "Personal Banker" advises me on 401K allocations.

I'm pretty simple like that to this day and it's nothing to brag about but it works for me. And #2 is still in practice. CC's now work to my advantage too. I've always had a great salary so that helps...

Of course a house is a revenue stream. And in that vein, you can get into rentals too. Just hire a management company for all the BS and let the appreciation commence.

Baconeater has solid advice as well.

Yeah I've done most of those. Forgot to mention I got a Roth IRA 6 months ago. I do own a house (as of January) and plan to gain equity over time. No credit card debt to speak of. I've always used my discover to pay for things like gas, Pay it off on time and use the rewards on things like an Amazon product I want.

I've actually cut a few expenses and have used them towards paying off my Accord, which is projected to be done by March, so that's progress.

I'm a frugal guy. I always try to live below my means and save where I can.

FIRST, eliminate all credit card debt.

SECOND, contribute at least whatever is needed to your 401(k) to take advantage of any match. For example, if they match half of your salary up to 4%, then put in the 4%, if not more.

THIRD, eliminate the bullshit fees and costs in your life. Your bank charges a fee every time you use an ATM, and to maintain that checking account? Go find a credit union or something. Look at where you're getting nickeled and dimed to death by some kind of bullshit, and get rid of it.

FOURTH, eat out less. I'm not saying become a hermit eating rice, but I know too many people who live paycheck to paycheck who eat out for lunch EVERY ****ING DAY and then go hit Dunky's or Starbucks twice a day too. YOU ARE PISSING AWAY YOUR ****ING MONEY. STOP THAT SHIT. Are you really such a coffee snob that the office Keurig isn't good enough for you? Are you really incapable of bringing lunch to work a few days a week?

FIFTH, eliminate all debt in your life other than housing debt (mortgage). Got a car loan? Well, unless it's zero financing, pay that shit off.

SIXTH, take a look at the expenses in your life. What do you NEED, versus what do you WANT? What can you trim back. The fastest way to save money is to reduce expenses. Eating out less is an obvious one. Are there others?

SEVENTH, have a rainy day fund. A pool of cash for when your tires need replacing and that crap.

EIGHTH, increase your 401(k) contributions beyond the match and/or create an IRA. Tax deferred wealth accumulation is where it's at.

From there many avenues become possible.

Bottom line -- CONTROL YOUR FINANCES, OR YOUR FINANCES WILL CONTROL YOU.

Good luck!

This is great. Smart use of credit cards is excellent. Eliminating car loans is awesome.

Advanced tip -- in the future, if you have to use a loan to buy a replacement car, you can consider a home equity loan for the funds. Home equity interest will be at a lower rate, and will be tax deductible. Straight up car loans are at a higher interest rate, and not tax deductible.

Also, if you are paying PMI on your mortgage, then keep an eye on how/when to refinance and/or eliminate the PMI by either paying down the mortgage sufficiently, and/or through appreciation of home value.

More htan half the battle of getting to retirement is eliminating bullshit expenses in your life.

PMI is the devil.

What, you don't like paying insurance to cover someone ELSE'S risk?

Yeah, every homeowner who pays PMI must work to eliminate it as soon as possible. It does absolutely nothing for them.

Make sure that you don't have a pre-payment penalty on your loan. If don't, see if you can add some extra principal reduction every month. If you're just a few months in and have a 30 year note, even a few hundred extra a month will save you thousands and thousands in the long run.

Yeah. I had PMI when we made the huge leap from KC housing prices to Denver. I got rid of it in less than a year.

errr....wellll....maybe. I'm actually not a fan of doing this, and here is why. If you do not keep the mortgage until you actually pay it off, all you've really done is given the mortgage company an interest fee loan for all the time from when you prepaid whatever amount until you sell the house.

Let me rephrase -- the above advice is terrific if you are definitely going to stay in the house until you pay off the mortgage. Otherwise, it isn't.

And that includes refinancing. If you're going to refinance, then you essentially get no benefit for prepaying, other than having a lower principal amount. You could, of course, pay down the principal WHEN you refi, which means you had that money working for you until such date, instead of given to the bank.

There is also no way to get it back once you prepay, so doing the above definitely comes after establishing a rainy day fund, etc.

Though the above is generally considered sound advice, I actually disfavor it unless you are not good at saving money. If the money will be "burning a hole in your pocket" and get spent, then sure, prepay the mortgage. Otherwise, meh.

Sorry, yes, only if you plan on riding out the loan term. And, it does help build equity faster, of course. At least a little.

I just turned 50, so I'll give you my advice, or shall we say, impart some common sense.

1. Live within your means. I had friends when I was younger, and still have friends at my age, that will spend right up to the very dollar they make......and more. I used to think that they must be super wealthy, but come to find out, they were actually just super stupid. Also, living within your means means that you actually have to save money each and every month. Don't listen to any specific percentage other than the one that works for you at the time that you are making the decision. Adjust it every 6 months to a year, depending upon how your life is changing (income increase/decrease and expense increase/decrease).

2. There is the tortoise and there is the hare. Both will cross the finish line eventually, but one gets there sooner than the other. One spends an enormous amount of energy trying to be first, while the other knows it's a lost cause to do nothing more than to keep a steady, slow pace. Figure out which one of these two you are, or which one you resemble the most. Why? Because it will help you in planning for the future. I knew a guy that wanted to retire when he was 55 (hare), but he wasn't on a career path that was going to allow that (tortoise). It's a bit of a conundrum and can create issues for you down the road, especially if you have convinced your wife you can provide something that won't come to fruition for several years down the road.

3. Along the way, don't forget to be happy. Money issues seemed to rise up all the time for me between the ages 28-40. There were some great earning years in the age frame, but it also cost me a great deal of time away from Family and Friends. Ambition is great, but ambition doesn't care about you after you retire. Money will come and go, but Family and true Friends are there forever. Find the balance that makes you happy, and I promise you'll never worry about how you didn't didn't spend more time in the office or on the road working. I missed a lot of time with my oldest Son when he was a toddler due to traveling overseas on business. I'd substitute the bonuses and salary bumps I made to have that time back with my Son.

4. Last - Have a retirement goal. Figure out where you want to retire, how you want to retire, and how much money it will take to get there. I fully realize that plans and desires change over time (especially when you are younger), but it's immensely difficult to cross the finish line if you don't know where you are running to. Just a FYI, I never used a pen in planning out my retirement goals. I generally used a pencil with a giant eraser.:D

Good luck, and enjoy the ride - it goes a lot faster than you think!

Wow I can't really believe this figure. Sad if true.