Leaving the pitcher in too long and not telling Hosmer to wait a few pitches and to send Dyson is pretty ****ing stupid. Today, Yost hate is welcome.

I'm still wondering why, yesterday, with bases loaded, tie game, bottom of the 8th, one out, we're not bunting the guy home (or at least trying).

That is a manager's call, and he's taken crap for not knowing when to, and when not to, play small ball. I think that was an eyes-wide-open mistake yesterday, and that's on him.

But I agree, with the rest of what you say.

Beautifully constructed lineup and great pep talk before the game that got the boys rolling from the get go

is this one of those threads we need to create a new one for so this can be locked? Or have we done well enough in the last ten games that it can wait awhile? I forget.

Bump.

I won't ever agree with his management style, but he's made the right decisions to a much larger extent this year. He's got a stacked pitching staff that it's hard to miss with

Chiefs country will tell you that you never remove a relief pitcher until they've given up the lead. He claims that it is baseball 101.



Ned has realized that less is more, or he is sitting still due to the injury to Hoz limiting his pinch running for Billay coupled with our lack of Pinch hitters off the bench. Either way we are winning and his moves have been solid.

I've never bashed Ned (that I know of) because I think te GM makes all the diff. Dayton gave him 3 beasts to close out 7-8-9. Who can screw that up?

Guy is Currently Kicking ASS and taking NAMES ..... Props ... Period!

Ned's the result of this winning streak. HIS bat has been hot!!!

Ned is going to put Hosmer back at first and **** everything up.

Flip flop planet.

Royals record now +3 over their expected (PyThag). There can be no clearer indication that Ned is pulling all the right strings this season.

Ned can't help it, he's already said as much.

Of course(sp){CP} spelling...reach

Neds gonna bring KC a World Series victory. Royals vs Dodgers. Royals win in 7. Come back to this in October...

Revisionist History..

Ned magically started making guys like Butler hit??

Keith Law was ripping on Ned on the radio today.

Ned's usually standing by Eiland. I wonder if he's helping him with some of the decisions this year

I wasn't a fan of bringing Crow or Frasor into the game today. But we won, so whatever.

Had No Idea Ned had that power .... its his job to make Butler Hit? ... What's Belly's Job? Please Go be a Niner/Giants fan and evacuate this ****ing board.

If Ned isn't responsible for Butlers hot surge, he's not responsible for the terrible start Butler had either. That was easy

Ned. Neeeeeeeddddd.

Eiland has been a great addition to the Royals, IMHO.

Can't tell if serious?!? Ned is the recipient of players taking responsibility. Trace our fine winning streak back to a player's only meeting where the soft-spoken Alex Gordon told everyone to look in the mirror.

Truth is, if Ned didn't have his head up his a$$ as a tactician on the field and culture-setter in the clubhouse, this team would have been in the playoffs LAST YEAR. Francona would have managed these guys to the Wild Card at the least, last year.

So again...why should I celebrate the guy that's management style was finally overcome by his players taking responsibility for themselves? Teams can win in spite of their managers. Unfortunately, they can also under-perform because of their managers as well. Responsibility is still on the players to overcome, but a manager can either manage them to overcoming or enable and under-performing culture.

I would LOVE that. And Ned would still be a terrible manager and a forgettable one, eventually.

Ned seems to be a great guy and keeps the clubhouse happy.

A happy clubhouse is an important thing.


still doesn't mean that he's a good field manager though

barely average

I think what we are finding out is that a Manager in Baseball doesn't really buy you much in the way of wins and losses.

I had lunch with a former colleague the other day, who was in town to cover the series with the A's for his pub (introduced him to LC's. He was very pleased).

He summed up Yost pretty well: A pretty bad tactical manager who you hope can make up for it by keeping the team loose, and have them being relaxed pay off with good performance.

I don't have much more to add to that.

I will point out one moment from yesterday's game as an EXCELLENT example of Yost making a really shitty tactical decision and having the players cover it up for him: The 7th inning.

With one out, Kratz hits that single. Down 1 in the 7th, lumbering catcher on 1B. Yost decides to not pinch run for him, which means his only chance of scoring is on two hits OR a home run. But I understand not pinch running there, as he's your catcher, you're trying to get your starter a day off, and you still have two more cracks with the top of your lineup still due up.

Then Christian Colon rips that double to left, leaving Kratz at 3B (Cain would have scored from first on that play). NOW Ned Yost pinch runs. NOW.

Jarrod Dyson comes through with a single (after Bob Melvin curiously went to his pen and brought in a RHP to face Dyson), the Royals go on to score two more, and it ends up not being a problem.

But if the A's go to Abbad, he gets Dyson without letting the run score, and retires Aoki, the Royals leave the inning still trailing. And that really poor tactical management pops out much more easily.

I've said it before, but I think its worth repeating, I'm fine with Ned Yost. If DM gave me the power to hire a new manager, I would retain Yost.

That doesn't mean I think Yost is great or is responsible for a lot of wins. I generally think the manager can't get you many, if any wins, but he can definitely lose a lot of games. A manager is all downside, almost no upside. I think over the course of a full season and including all decisions not just focusing on the bad ones, on a net basis Ned doesn't lose many games. I don't think we can do much better. Assuming a very minimal ability at lineups and pitching changes, there are really only two ways a manager can significantly hurt your team.

1) He can forget that he's in the American League and play small-ball too much, too early. (Ned doesn't, he manages like an American League manager)

2) He can overwork our pitchers and hurt them. (Ned doesn't, he generally pulls young pitchers after 100, and doesn't let our vets go to 120+ more than once or twice in a row.)

Ned meets my very, very low bar of expectations, so he's fine. We had a long line of managers who failed one or both of those 2 tests I have for a manager, and Ned's the first one in a very long time who passes.

Hypothetical situation:
Royals make the wildcard this year but fail to advance. La Russa indicates that he would 100% manage the 2015 Royals given the opportunity. What do you do?

nothing

managers are so overrated it's not funny

Cardinals fans hated LaRussa....absolutely hated the guy.

Why? Because fans overreact and the manager is always the easy target.

You see La Russa a few nights ago when they interviewed him and showed him several times at his desk or area to watch the game? He looks like he could play lead in "About Schmidt II". Dude acts like he's not all there

I don't necessary agree.

Some managers have a knack for knowing when to pull a pitcher. That can absolutely help you win games. It can't be quantified, there is no stat to prove it but if you watch the games you can see it.

Some managers are good at getting the matchups that favor them. Again very hard to write that down on paper but Yost has been schooled a few times by it.

It's mostly handling the pitching staff.

Yost just goes by the standard baseball 101 rules, no 'feel' for it at all.

Veteran pitcher stays in through the 6th. If pitch count allows he stays until the 7th.

setup man in 8th
closer for the 9th. Unless it's not a save situation then Yost throws somebody out there until a couple of guys get on base. Then it's closer time

blah,blah,blah ... He could be reading a book and let a computer make the call.

Now that's not going to make a big mistake that everyone can blame him for either. It's the safe,standard practice method. Makes very little allowance for the specific situation.

Yost also puts 'not letting the starter take the loss' ahead of what is best for the team. imo

several things

Honestly anyone could make the moves yost does. I imagine somewhere he has a little cheat sheet in his pocket showing what to do. lol

That said, it keeps the players from getting pissed because there is never a decision made that can stands out enough to make them pissed.

No highs,No lows,No Risks,No reward, No fallout .....

Yost could not exist and it would be the same thing

No...because LaRussa is a douche. Everyone in baseball just understands this. He's a douche that does better with his talent than most guys. So there's that...

I do not believe that this is a thing that exists, at all.

I assume we're ignoring the extreme cases I referred to before when a manager comically leaves a pitcher in way, way, way too long running up huge pitch counts. I'm also assuming we're not talking about obvious situations like a pitcher at 95 pitches walks 2 guys and loads the bases in the 6th with one out and that big scary lefty slugger is coming up so you go get your good LHRP.

Those obvious things aside, "knowing" when a pitcher needs to come out reads like a belief in voodoo magic to me, combined with our natural human bias to focus on bad outcomes and forget good outcomes.

I do not believe in "good" managers.

I think managers are either bad or some degree of "acceptable". I think Ned is acceptable. So, I'm not interested in a change. If Ned was hypothetically replaced with another "acceptable" manager, I would be completely indifferent.

I guess I should mention a 3rd "test" that very rarely comes up, but that Trey Hillman actually failed.

3) If the players don't like the manager, then he needs to go.

I'm not interested in stories about how much players love a manager and are playing harder for him. I don't know how to tell the difference between a genuine love for the manager, or PC happy talk that all players are used to feeding to the reporters. It is rare that we hear about a widespread dislike for the manager, but when it happens, you've got to act on it. I don't think players should have a vote on retaining a manager you otherwise want to get rid of, but they can basically fire him.

Yosted tonight's game away.

1 run

Can Yost bat too?

He went back to old Ned tonight and left Ventura out to dry at nearly 100 pitches. Ventura scrapped out 6 innings of 0 run ball with horrible control. Take that and get to your lights out pen.

Trade
 

Should have tried to move him by trade the past few weeks, maybe other owners thought the Royals success was the result of their manager.:banghead::banghead:

yeah I kinda question leaving Ventura out so long with our dominant ass pen, and also why take Ibanez out when he appears to own their closer?

He was trying to save the bullpen. Geez guys, it's not hard to figure out.

We have to sustain the bullpen through 2 more months of baseball, and they've showed signs of fatigue.

Yost isn't a mensa, that's for sure...but I'm not going to beat him up for this. We scored 1 freaking run.

Pinch hit for Ibanez and let Moose bat given the history was odd.

Saving them for the off-season? Nothing they have done means anything if you don't make the playoffs. I bet you were ok with shutting down Strasburg too...

The two have nothing to do with each other. I'll say it again. The Royals scored 1 run. Hell, Holland gave up 2 last night in one inning alone. The more you use them consecutively, the worse they perform.

Might as well forfeit with that attitude.

Herrera has pitched one inning on 8/15, 8/11, 8/8, 8/6, 8/1, 7/30, 7/29, 7/26, 7/25...

Davis has pitched one inning on 8/15, 8/14, 8/11, 8/10, 8/8, 8/6, 8/1, 7/31, 7/30, 7/26...

Holland has pitched one inning on 8/15, 8/14, 8/11, 8/10, 8/8, 8/6, 8/3, 8/1, 7/31, 7/30, 7/26...

So maybe they were going to use Herrera in the 9th if they could get there? Still, you have other guys in the pen and it seemed to me Ventura was about tapped as he hit 100 pitches and leaving him it really kinda put it out of reach for us.

:spock:

This makes more sense as a criticism. You do need the other guys to step up to be viable.

But again, we scored 1 run. Not gonna win many games 1-0, folks.

No, but maybe 2-1 in extras. You can't piss away games down the stretch like that when you have the lead. Down 2-1, 3-1, yeah maybe try to squeeze another inning, but you can't lose those games like that you are leading after 6 for the sake of saving the pen. I don't give a shit if it's 1-0, 2-1, or 3-2, keep that lead and win the game.

This was my biggest problem. You want to give Holland/Davis/Herrera a day off? Fine. But we have enough other pitchers in the pen that you didn't have to leave Ventura out there at 100+ pitches while struggling with command.

If you put in some combination of Bueno/Chen/Frasor/Crow and they blow it (which I have little doubt they would have), I can live with the "day off" excuse for why we didn't have the A Team in there.

Biggest test is tomorrow. Gotta bounce back & take the series (and preferably score more than 1 frickin' run). Can't let this be the start of something worse.

Nope. But the Royals had a legit shot to win this one before Ned went full Yost.

I guess it's agree to disagree. His bullpen management really hasn't bothered me all that much. I'm sure now we'll win or lose the next 10 games by more than 5 runs, making me wish we had used the HDH approach, but yeah.

Nice to see Ned take his head out of his ass and move Gordon up in the lineup tonight. Well done sir. Now fix that damn 2 hole asshat!

Was surprised Ned put Davis in the 8th, I was sitting there loving the decision, especially w heart of the lineup coming up in the 9th. Nice job Edgar

Ned does a decent job of this when Davis has been rested.

At this point, we needed Herrera, Davis and Holland to get some work regardless today/tomorrow.

Bump.

Figured this would come in handy.

This last ****ing week has been stupendously bad from Ned.

**** HIM.

I mean, if we get swept by the Indians on primetime, doesn't Dayton have to think about it?

We are the Royals so we should be happy with even being here.

So no.

There's a less than zero chance of GMDM firing Yost...

This year is do or die for GMDM. I am inclined to believe that he is motivated to do whatever it takes to win.

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

No, not Dayton.... He's going to die with GMDM at his side. They are tied at the hip for life! Perhaps nut-to-butt!

The Royals are now 4-8 with 30k+ in the house, right?

Would love to hear the Yost apologists on this one.

Based on tonight, I'm not seeing it. He was more than ready to lose this one. As creative as most 3-year-olds playing chess!

Ex-motha****ing-goddam-****ing-zactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not bunting Sal over. GG.

Not letting Holland, Davis or Herrera go another inning. GG.

Not using Willingham. GG.

Three strikes and you are out Yost.

Yep. Complete karma bite in the ass.

Shut the **** up about the fans from here on out, Ned. Concentrate on managing games better.

Dude, that made zero difference in the game. Sal wouldn't have scored from 3rd.

Remember, Ned Yost was so bad tactically in his last job that he was fired by a contending team on September 15.

He would be moving on contact when Cain pulled it to the right side. He would score on that play.

subscribed

Willingham had a stiff back, so that is def a pass there.

The usage of the pen is the worst.

Dayton Moore signs the dipshit pitcher, utility guy, and Ibanez.

FIRE NED YOST. TODAY!

Discuss......

What he did today, should be the subject of his next news conference. He should be called on the carpet by the media, because his pussy boss sure the **** wont do anything about it.

I have so much hate for Ned. I literally hate this mother ****er. Just good enough to almost get you to the playoffs isn't what we need.