Exactly. I don't even agree with the decision, but who really gives a **** at this point?

There is clearly a backstory to this thing a mile long, until we know the details I would think this regime has earned some slack

Not liking it at face value, wondering WTF is one thing... but there are some pretty strongly worded posts in this thread

OTW is just a whiny bitch. I've never seen him say anything positive in my time here.

I mean, he said it himself. He doesn't give a **** about this team. I think that says all we need to know about his level of butthurt.

DJ is just bitching because he can feel right again about his draft day meltdown. That probably made him feel stupid for a while, but now he's got his confidence back, so that good.

It's definitely a wtf move, but I certainly understand the concept that occasionally some people just need to go away. Quickly.

I'm not really calling anyone out, especially OTWP, too many times in the past I did so only to be proven completely wrong by the likes of Peterson and Pioli... sometimes crap is crap, and no amount of positive thought will fix it

It just seems to me that there is still an awful lot we dont know about this deal, and considering Dorseys track record with KC thus far... maybe the more pessimistic among us should step back a bit, and wait for further info

My own initial impression is that for this regime to make such a drastic move, Russell must have been a monstrous ****up

smellway can be our KeiVarae Russell

I love all the conspiracy theories. It can't just be that they feel White and Acker are simply better football players with more potential after seeing them on the field and there wasn't enough room on the roster to keep all of them.

There were guys here calling him a day 1 starter after the draft. He must be a world class turd.

He didn't even look that good against future insurance salesmen. Of all the guys that looked competent in the preseason, even against inferior talent, Russell was nearly invisible. Turns out he just sucks.

Now he can go back and get his degree.

Because the Notre Dame coaching staff isn't one to shit on their players.

Hell, for all we know, Brian Kelly didn't want him back for his Senior season.

That's the fascinating question here. What could have made them so clear that nothing was going to change, improve, or progress with time. Can't be his play. You don't pick a guy in the 3rd round, be that excited about it, and cut him even if he looked like Cliff Clavin out there. Insane to go from loving his talent to we are confident his talent won't progress.

Even with the locker room issues, Reid is pretty confident in controlling guys and the locker room has leaders. What could possibly have happened, or continued to happen, that they just said "you're donezo." This second part seems more likely, but it's really intriguing to wonder what it could have been.

Looking at this through a microscope, it's a bad thing. We blew a 3rd round pick. Might be less of a blow because some of the later round guys might pan out. But looking at the big picture, it's a positive, in my opinion. If a guy isn't on board with the program, if he's more into himself than the team, or if he's just not the player you thought he was, cut bait. Don't wait around. Pioli probably had to stick with guys like TJackson and Arenas because most of the rest of the roster was equally terrible. It's nice to finally be in a place depth-wise to be able to admit a mistake-or a programmatic non fit (props to Mike Childress)-and move on.

They "blew" a 3rd round pick created out of thin air.

While it sucks that Russell sucked, in the grand scheme of things, who ****ing cares?

it would be a bigger deal to me if this wasnt a veteran winning team. 99% of the positions were already set.

a good draft is getting 3 or 4 solid contributors. ultimately, does it really matter what round those players come from as long as your getting them??

Who ****ing cares? My mother just spent the last 3 months knitting me a KeiVarae Russell jersey. THAT'S who ****ing cares.

Dorsey has been doing this for decades and I highly doubt he got swindled. A player drafted that high being cut so soon is not a good thing. It's not horrible, especially if White steps up, but it is a bad look for any GM to do this.

if this happened to the Broncos or Raiders, we'd all be laughing at them calling them morons.

Say hello to your mother for me

You can pretty much classify it as one of five factors:

1. Wasn't athletic enough.
2. Wasn't smart enough.
3. Bad attitude.
4. Off-field stuff was about to blow up.
5. So much talent and depth that a good player had to go.

#1 is highly doubtful. Too easy to measure.
#2 is possible, but a good athlete who's dumb can usually still find a place on a team.
#3 is likely, because it's something you can't fix and can affect other players.
#4 is quite possible, and if so we'll know soon.
#5 is possible, but you'd hope that a third-rounder would be one of the better players.

My bet is that he was riding deep on the bench and was pouting about it and being a bad locker room presence. I have no information at all to support that theory, but it just seems like the most likely thing other than an impending arrest.

Yep. In fact. I think that people were laughing at Tennessee for cutting last years high picks

Please. You get as hard over draft picks as anyone on this site. Now you're going to pretend they don't matter? Hypocrite.

Again, we get really caught up in individual players when really it's the players fitting into the system that matters the most. This is why we let Sean Smith walk...we utilized his body size to work certain schemes. But he got burned way too many times against high end receivers that he couldn't justify high end pay. His benching in Oakland supports this thought as does his mediocre play as a Dolphin.
Complain about the secondary all you want, the real problem is our inside linebackers. They look incompetent and DJ is showing his age. Teams are going to run the ball down our throats and set up 2nd down and short plays which put our defensive backs in very vulnerable positions.

**** off, twat.

I called him out weeks ago and said he should have been cut.

Where the **** have you been?

I'm with Dane on this one. Seahawks and Pats are well known for maximizing picks by trading down . Seahawks have a handful of 5th rounders and undrafted players that have become absolute gems for their defense. And guess what, they are a helluva lot cheaper on those contracts

Let's not forget Spencer Ware is a 6th round pick as is Antonio Brown.. Doug Baldwin was undrafted and he's a #1 receiver now...

Exactly this

The kid never flashed a single play in preseason.

If he did, they would have found other ways to deal with the "culture" issues.

The culture issues just make cutting the 3rd rounder more palatable.

Bingo.

Maybe the stress fracture he had in his leg is not really healed. I would think he could be IR if that was the case but maybe he just does not move like he did before.

Without a doubt.




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I think it's a combination of #2 & #3.




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Not to send this thread another way, but while watching the Chiefs game and looking at Ford, one thing was abundantly clear: Gaines looked very good.

The guy has the best cover ability on the team. It seems like the staff really trusts him bc he made tackles he didn't make before and was staying with Benjamin.
Seth Keysor is breaking him down form anyone who wants to see. He's got gifs up.

Nelson was not bad, but he wasn't good either. He gave up a few catches but didn't give up YAC. hes harder to evaluate as a lot of people think he's a JAG.

Oh, good point. That's a sixth potential reason per my earlier post.

I remember being really impressed with Gaines before the injury last year. If he's back to 100 percent, I think he's pretty darn good.

Nelson, whether scheme or what-have-you, was giving a lot of cushion. Did come up and help on a crucial screen pass.

I've also never had to find Keysor's stuff on my own. Where would I find that?

IF Peters and Gaines are good, Nelson doesn't need to be phenomenal with Parker and Berry behind them.

Well, once they both find their sea legs.

Just saw that. Gaines is going to be really good if he can stay healthy. I agree with Seth that he's the better cover corner in comparison to Peters.

You should make a thread with those clips. I'd do it, but I don't know how to embed. :D

You read as well as the rest. I said UNDER 5'10". And I'm correct.

Receiver's under 5'10" rarely produce much in this league, they never have, and I'll use last year's stats to show that they don't.

Of the 193 receivers that caught a pass in 2015, only 19 were under 5'10" (that is 5'9" or shorter), or 9.8% of the league.

Of those 19, only one receiver posted over 700 yards, and that was TY Hilton (5'9") who came in 15th in the league with 69 catches for 1,124 yards and 5 TDs. The next closest was the ageless Steve Smith (5'9"), who posted 46 receptions for 670 yards and 3 TDs, good for 47th in the NFL.

Two more receivers would post 500 yard seasons in this club: Jamison Crowder (53rd, 59 rec. 604 yds, 2 TD) and Cole Beasley (58th, 52 rec. 536 yds, 5 TD).

Two would produce 400 yard seasons: Tavon Austin (72nd, 52 rec. 473 yds, 5 TD) and Albert Wilson (77th, 35 rec. 451 yds, 2 TD).

Only one would produce a 300 yards season, Lance Moore (91st, 29 rec. 337 yds, 4 TDs).

Two more would go over 200 yards on the season, Andrew Hawkins (99th, 27 rec. 276 yds, 0 TD) and Taylor Gabriel (105th, 28 rec. 241 yds, 0 TD)

Bruce Ellington, Jeremy Kerley, De'Anthony Thomas, and Wes Welker all would break 100 yards (woohoo!).

The remainder (Michael Campanaro, Marquise Goodwin, Lucky Whitehead, Mario Alford, Chandler Worthy, and Eric Weems) would all make statistically insignificant contributions (maxing out at 5 rec. for 35 yards).

So those of you that want to say that 5'10" should not be the benchmark can kiss my ****ing fat ass. Unless you consider a 3% chance of producing any significant yardage a good thing (and I'm being nice posting the cutoff at 400 yards for "significant.") It's hard enough for a guy under 5'10" just to make an NFL roster.

Edit:

For a bit more... here's some stats

Receivers by Height

% of NFL with a Reception 2015

Under 5'10" - 19/193 (9.8%)
5'10" - 20/193 (10.4%)
5'11" - 22/193 (11.4%)
6'0" - 37/193 (19.2%)
6'1" - 21/193 (10.9%)
6'2" - 32/193 (16.6%)
6'3" - 22/193 (11.4%)
6'4" - 12/193 (6.2%)
6'5" and Over 8/193 (4.1%)

Significant Contribution by Height (400+ Yards)

Under 5'10" - 6/19 (31.6%)
5'10" - 11/20 (55.0%)
5'11" - 9/22 (40.9%)
6'0" - 11/37 (29.7%)
6'1" - 11/21 (52.4%)
6'2" - 11/32 (34.4%)
6'3" - 13/22 (59.1%)
6'4" - 6/12 (50.0%)
6'5" and Over - 6/8 (75.0%)

Total Contributions by Height (81,606 total NFL yards)

Under 5'10" - 5,374 (6.6%)
5'10" - 11,281 (13.8%)
5'11" - 10,079 (12.4%)
6'0" - 10,730 (13.1%)
6'1" - 9,905 (12.1%)
6'2" - 10,518 (12.9%)
6'3" - 13,467 (16.5%)
6'4" - 5,970 (7.3%)
6'5" and Over - 4,282 (5.2%)


Your sweet spot really is 5'10" to 6'3", as we've known, forever.

Is it good to say, crapshoot?

What facts do we know?

He was suspended for a year in college for acedemics.
He was quoted as saying he was having trouble with even learning the verbiage of the defense.
He was one of the last draft picks to sign a contract.
He got to practice after the first 2-3 installs had been done.

To me, it seems like the guy is just plain stupid, unfortunately...and probably thinks he should be starting...hopefully he clears waivers and we can put his ass on the PS for a year so he can learn the stuff he should have learned after signing a slotted deal as a third rounder, but I doubt he clears.

The league needs more CBs and he will be given a shot somewhere.

Sounds like he is either stupid or slow

I linked an article from Paylor stating that Russell didn't miss a single offseason practice due to his contract situation.

Likewise, but that's not the point I'm making.

It has nothing to do with fan perception, it's teammates/staff. Teams put up with his shit because he produces. I don't want him on this team, but if he were acquired and played well, 'team leaders' wouldn't be looking to run him out of town regardless of how big a jackass he is.

Because football players put up with a whole slew of dipshittery. Hell, they've all played for 10 years and there's no better fountain of dipshittery than football coaches, regardless of level. Christ alive, the amount of horseshit you'll hear out of your average football coach is just laughable.

They develop pretty thick skin. That is, unless they start thinking they're above having to deal with it.

Exactly.

I'm pretty sure folks wouldn't be lining up to wash Elways balls for "recognizing a mistake and cutting bait early".

This is a knee-jerk move. I really hope it was a brilliantly calculated one where Dorsey was sure he could get the guy on the practice squad and wanted to knock him down a peg. We'll find out by about 5p this afternoon.

I'll still think it was too risky. The Cardinals did something similar with Aledmys Diaz last July to get a JAG on the roster for 10 days; it was remarkably stupid but they got lucky and nobody picked Diaz up. This year he was an All-Star as a rookie and may well be the best player on the team. All it woul've taken was one GM to decide that he was worth a million dollar gamble and a spot on the 40 man to make the Cardinals look extraordinarily stupid.

So you're not going to correct the record at all?

Because about 5 posts later you said he shouldn't be cut. Even you, the most vocal Russell detractor around, took a step back and said "woah, maybe cutting a 3rd rounder with those measurables this early isn't such a great idea afterall".

I mean, I can go grab the quote if you'd like, but you know that's how it went. You walked yourself back a fair amount there.

I like Gaines a lot.

Stack him up to Trae Waynes and athletically they're virtually identical; Gaines may actually be more explosive. Their builds are pretty much exactly the same.

And while Peters will be the best CB from that draft, Waynes was universally considered the best CB prospect of the bunch.

Gaines/Waynes are very similar in my eyes to Ford/Fowler. Dorsey's shown an eye for getting guys that are athletically extremely similar to players with much much higher pedigrees far later in the draft. It's going to lead to some busts because you just can't take the rough edges off everyone. But it's his pattern and it's not hard to spot.

Yeah, I walked it back because it looked foolish but in all honesty, it's not how I really felt.

I rarely, if ever, celebrate other teams's personnel mishaps. The draft is a crapshoot and 50% of first rounders bust.

That said, after the job that Elway's done since arriving in Denver as GM, he's certainly allowed to have a few mulligans.

It only appears to be a "knee jerk move" outside One Arrowhead Drive. For all we know, they could have been contemplating this move since early August.

Reid didn't exactly sound like they were ready to welcome him back with open arms if he clears waivers but maybe that's part of a ruse.

Regardless, Dorsey has hit on multiple third rounders since he was hired in 2013. Travis Kelce is a Pro Bowler and Top 5 at his position, Knile Davis has added value as a running back and kick returner and it appears that Gaines and Conley will be contributors for years to come.

If Dorsey realized that this 3rd rounder wasn't going to stick, I applaud him for ripping off the bandaid and releasing him immediately.

IMHO I think he's gone. I don't think he even wants to come back here. But yeah, looking at the league today, corners with athleticism like Russell's are worth taking a shot on for how cheap his salary is.

I would be shocked if he isn't claimed, no less by one of the first 10 teams who get a shot at him.

Maybe he will end up in OHIo

I don't know if anyone will find this interesting but I thought I'd post anyway.

-----

http://www.nfl.com/transactions

9/14 KeiVarae Russell CB Waived, No Recall

http://operations.nfl.com/updates/th...stem-overview/

The waiver period runs from the first business day after the Super Bowl through the end of the NFL’s regular season. Except in rare incidents, the waiver period lasts 24 hours and all waivers are categorized as “no recall” and “no withdrawal,” which means once a club waives a player, it cannot take the player back or change the player’s status.

I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been any more news on this yet. Surely some team out there will claim have claimed him by now.

KeiVarae Russell CB Waived, No TakeBacksies

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Filed: Why the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> lied about KeiVarae Russell&#39;s release as a &quot;football decision&quot;. If Joel doesn&#39;t print it, he&#39;s part of the cover-up.</p>&mdash; Matt Conner (@MattConnerAP) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattConnerAP/status/776467438166827009">September 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not sure I understand what this means. What's your take on it, Dane?

My take is that football insiders like Joel Thorman know exactly why Russell was cut and it wasn't a "football decision", i.e., his ability or inability to play in the NFL at this point in time.

Edit: Terez follows him. He didn't re-tweet.

My interpretation (but could be wrong):

Matt Connor - writer for Arrowhead Pride
Why the #Chiefs lied about KeiVarae Russell's release as a "football decision". - Name of an article he just submitted for publication on Arrowhead Pride
If Joel doesn't print it, he's part of the cover-up. - Joel is the editor (not sure if that's the right title) of Arrowhead Pride. Matt is apparently saying there's a cover-up, and if Joel doesn't print his article, he's part of it.

We'll never know gents. This is the sequel to the DAT issue we still don't know about from last season.

Here's the article (I think):

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2016/9...-real-football

I wonder if he takes a chances and prints it, then loses his press credentials as a result?

Why do the chiefs have to discern why they cut him?

Matt has since clarified that he was joking, and the article is more of an analysis than fact-reporting, so I doubt Joel has anything to fear.

Likely story

:D

Well, that Arrowhead Pride article points out (which is essentially the same thing that DJ's Left Nut has been saying the past 24 hours), this is a weird decision considering the patience they have with DeMarcus Robinson and the Chiefs basic MO of drafting and developing players under Reid and Dorsey.

As I had stated weeks ago, if the Chiefs were a true "meritocracy", Russell and Robinson would be cut but as you, DJ and others pointed out, that just isn't a realistic expectation.

Yet, here we are, with Russell waived.

I would think that the fans, and especially the season ticket holders, have a right to know why Russell was cut.

I agree completely with that article. It just doesn't meet the smell test. But I doubt that we ever hear the truth.

Some things just have to go unsaid I suppose. Throwing a guy under the bus for whatever reason may not sit well with future free agents and what not.

I think it's pretty obvious something happened therr but I doubt we ever know.

I'm sure it'll leak out eventually.

Probably. But the chiefs did what they had to saying what they did.

Before last year, I'd agree. But I still have no idea WTF happened with DAT.

True, although he's still a member of the Chiefs, making it easier to internalize.

Question:

When do we know if he's been claimed?

When someone tweets it.

It's been over 24 hours. I am assuming at this point that he cleared waivers. If he had been claimed, there would have been something out there.

I believe it's 4 Eastern...

If he actually clears waivers, there would have to be something MAJOR to this story.

Not necessarily. The rest of the NFL recognizes John Dorsey as the bestest GM in the history of the NFL. They all saw him cut and said, if John Dorsey doesn't want him, then neither do I.


Okay, maybe not. LOL. Actually, I agree. I would think someone would put a claim on him.

Robinson's a good demonstration because he's also from this class and buried in a deep position. But Steven Nelson from last season would've been a good example as well and was also a 3rd round pick.

This isn't a football decision because it doesn't even remotely resemble other football decisions they've made. They sat on Nelson all year knowing he wasn't going to contribute. They'll sit on Robinson all year knowing same.

Eh, **** it. Hopefully it's much ado about nothing (or even better, he makes it to the PS and turns into a productive player in the future; though I wonder what his contract status would be at that point. I would presume year to year or maybe on one of those 2 year futures deals. )

Id imagine if they outright cut him, they atleast TRIED to trade him first and didn't have any takers.

All I have to say is that we don't really know and may never know what's up, but I've hired people who had a great resume, some outstanding writing samples, but when they actually started the job they could string a sentence together. Both times this happened I'm convinced they were willfully doing it to get on unemployment, but I could be wrong.

It will be really telling if the Chiefs do not sign him to the practice squad, assuming he doesn't get claimed elsewhere.