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-   -   Tony Gonzalez opens up on Herm with both barrels (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=175845)

shyguyms 12-03-2007 12:41 AM

When our team was old and everyone was saying we needed to get younger we were winning now we are the turd of the NFL
god damn the Raiders are better than us!!

cdcox 12-03-2007 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zouk
The over-use of LJ argument is silly, in my opinion. LT had more touches last year if playoffs are included, I believe. And his injury was a blunt force injury and not a repetitive stress injury. The over-use was a result of Michael Bennett getting hurt and there being no one else on the roster who could carry the ball. As you said, Herm inherited a mess. He got Dee Brown who fumbled something like 2 of the 5 carries he was given.

It's the decreased production, not just the injury. Football Outsiders ran several articles on this last year predicting a significant fall off in production this year. The correlation between carries in season n and decreased produciton in season n+1 is very strong. Carries correlate more strongly with decrease in production that "touches" which include pass receptions. The typical pounding on a pass reception is less than a typical running play. LT's production has been off this year too, although not as sharply as LJ's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zouk
As far as Herm losing the team, I see no evidence for this whatsoever. Losing in an NFL clubhouse is never easy, but I've seen no quotes - even anonymous ones - from players bashing Herm. Do you have information that I don't?

Mostly reading between the lines. There can be no doubt that the intensity on the field has been less since the Indy game. I haven't had the sense that we were going to win any of the games the last few weeks. The players aren't exerting as much effort.

Fairplay 12-03-2007 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox
There can be no doubt that the intensity on the field has been less since the Indy game. I haven't had the sense that we were going to win any of the games the last few weeks. The players aren't exerting as much effort.



With Herm as the coach, can you blame them? His bad play calling and lack of wanting to reach the end zone passes off to them team.

Play to win, yeah right.

Pablo 12-03-2007 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shyguyms
You are happy that they are young and will be here awhile?
god damn it this team is 4-8 i don't want them here along time, all this says it that were young and these bums are here to stay!
holy shit herm as got to go, Law is over the hill
I cannot stand another fourth and 4 with a 2 yard pass im gonna kill be myself. Solari should move to IRAQ and Herm can be his driver!!!

Football fans in Maryland must lack patience and intelligence.

Pablo 12-03-2007 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shyguyms
When our team was old and everyone was saying we needed to get younger we were winning now we are the turd of the NFL
god damn the Raiders are better than us!!

I'm beginning to understand why you have less than 200 posts in 5 years.

We all get that we suck..but it's called re-building. A complete overhaul is necessary and that requires playing younger, mistake-prone players.
We might be trash for this year..and possibly the next, but the Raiders are gonna be trash for another decade at least.

Zouk 12-03-2007 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Mostly reading between the lines. There can be no doubt that the intensity on the field has been less since the Indy game. I haven't had the sense that we were going to win any of the games the last few weeks. The players aren't exerting as much effort.

Well I have doubt. I just don't see it. It's a hard thing to argue because I can't point to anything tangible, but I just really think you're wrong.

Micjones 12-03-2007 12:56 AM

I want to hear more from Brian Waters and other veterans on this team.

Until Edwards is gone...

blueballs 12-03-2007 12:59 AM

LJ quit in the playoff game before his payday
He was right -what's the point
"The other team aren't dumb dumbs"

FAX 12-03-2007 01:03 AM

I don't see Gonzo opening up on Herm. Just venting and stating the obvious. Nobody's very happy right now. But Herm was hired as Head Coach and the Head Coach takes the heat when things suck. And, things suck. A lot.

The oline is where the bleeding is worse. I think it's interesting that Herm decided at some point that these guys were serviceable. Doubly interesting is the fact that a good HC along with a good OC can compensate for a marginal oline through the use of plays that maximize their abilities while minimizing the potential for mistakes.

But no. We can't do that. Instead, we scale back the offensive game plan to such a predictable level that enemy defenses know what we're going to run before the ball is snapped. We scale back the playbook to 3 plays. We start a quarterback whose skills are so limited, the enemy only has to watch 15 minutes of tape on the guy to understand his tendencies.

And we do this game after game. Over and over. Until finally, everyone can see what we really are. Garbage. And, what does Herm do? Does he take responsibility? Does he institute changes early enough to make a legitimate effort to save the season? Does he declare "rebuild" and bring in the young players? No. He does none of that.

He blames the players - knowing full well that there will be people who pull out the "coaches don't catch passes" card. He blames the OC for being new on the job - knowing full well that he chose him for the position. And, he blames the team for "not making plays in the fourth quarter" - knowing full well that they are incapable of recovering from a deficit under his system.

I wish I could believe in Herm's plan. Maybe someday he'll spell it out so I can believe. Until then, it looks like he's making it up as he goes along and covering his ass along the way.

FAX

cdcox 12-03-2007 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13
It's not even that, my biggest point would be, and I don't even want to say it... that the one thing I actually agree with Herm about is this team, as built right now, just can't open it up on offense. And that's probably 50% of the complaining on this board. Obviously you can't be run/run/pass totally predictable, but there have been times where we've passed the ball, opened it up, spread formations on 1st down, deep throws downfield, and just gotten clobbered.

There is a middle ground between the Indy game and going in a spread formation every down.

Don't:
Talk in the press how 21 points is a lot of points, talk about circuis offense, etc.
Make all of your pass plays less than 5 yards.
Think that you have to use all 3 downs to get a first down.
Think that 1st and 15 is an impossible obstacle.
Consider that the purpose of the offese is to rest a defense.
Take your foot off the offensive accelerator when you enter FG range.
Make it tougher on your rookie QB by castrating the offense.
Run pass patterns where EVERYONE turns and faces the QB after going 5 yards downfield.
Run the same play from the same formation more than twice in a game.

Do:
Use first down and 2nd and 6 or less to throw intermediate routes of 12 to 20 yards. The pass rush is less on these downs.
Make the defense defend the whole field. Even if it is a decoy reciever, spread the defenders out.
Expect and trust your players to do their job. If you don't they will meet your bad expectation every time.
Expect your defense to make mistakes.
Have the intention and well-crafted plans to score TDs in the redzone.
Find some weakness in the defensive opponent and game plan to exploit it. If there is a weak point in thier line, send 3 blockers to that point of attack.

Demonpenz 12-03-2007 01:08 AM

1 Attachment(s)
2 is a wake up call but wait until he opens all three!

smittysbar 12-03-2007 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX
I don't see Gonzo opening up on Herm. Just venting and stating the obvious. Nobody's very happy right now. But Herm was hired as Head Coach and the Head Coach takes the heat when things suck. And, things suck. A lot.

The oline is where the bleeding is worse. I think it's interesting that Herm decided at some point that these guys were serviceable. Doubly interesting is the fact that a good HC along with a good OC can compensate for a marginal oline through the use of plays that maximize their abilities while minimizing the potential for mistakes.

But no. We can't do that. Instead, we scale back the offensive game plan to such a predictable level that enemy defenses know what we're going to run before the ball is snapped. We scale back the playbook to 3 plays. We start a quarterback whose skills are so limited, the enemy only has to watch 15 minutes of tape on the guy to understand his tendencies.

And we do this game after game. Over and over. Until finally, everyone can see what we really are. Garbage. And, what does Herm do? Does he take responsibility? Does he institute changes early enough to make a legitimate effort to save the season? Does he declare "rebuild" and bring in the young players? No. He does none of that.

He blames the players - knowing full well that there will be people who pull out the "coaches don't catch passes" card. He blames the OC for being new on the job - knowing full well that he chose him for the position. And, he blames the team for "not making plays in the fourth quarter" - knowing full well that they are incapable of recovering from a deficit under his system.

I wish I could believe in Herm's plan. Maybe someday he'll spell it out so I can believe. Until then, it looks like he's making it up as he goes along and covering his ass along the way.

FAX


:bravo: Great Post!!!!!!!!!!!

Zouk 12-03-2007 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX
But no. We can't do that. Instead, we scale back the offensive game plan to such a predictable level that enemy defenses know what we're going to run before the ball is snapped.

FAX

I just really didn't see the scaled back offense today. I saw loads of motion, empty backfields, play actions on all downs, Jared Allen as a TE, an attempt at a reverse pass, etc.

Demonpenz 12-03-2007 01:21 AM

what the hell is bowe doing today. Was he not getting seperation?

DaneMcCloud 12-03-2007 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler
And you trust Carl and Herm to actually fix this?

Has the defense gone from perennial number 32 to number 9 in the NFL?

Yes.

Do I think that the Chiefs will address their offensive line woes in the off-season?

Yes.

The Chiefs should target Max Starks, Ryan Lilja and do their best to draft a top tier left tackle, left guard, center and right tackle (Waters is due to breakdown at any moment).

The AFC West is obviously in transition as a whole and San Diego's only winning because the Raiders, Chiefs and Broncos are experiencing a youth movement.

I seriously think that the AFC West is up for grabs next year and IF the Chiefs make the right personnel moves, they'll be in the hunt for the divisional title next December.


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