I figure they'll both end up making 4.5ish mil for a one year deal. I dunno if 9 mil there is well spent?

Well the cap space required for the rookies is around $5.5 million. They currently have $18 million in cap space. That gives us $12.5 million in leftover cap space to work with.

Veach said the next priority is Orlando Brown Jr's new contract. It will be interesting to see if they keep his cap hit roughly the same as the franchise tag this year or if they lower it to try and bring in a couple more veterans.

I hope they do bring in a few more value vets on the DL.

Let's finish off the draft with a defense that can be top ten. All that is missing right now is a little bit more pass-rush rotation unless you actually trust Frank Clark.

I would bring in Ingram and Hicks.

DE: Karlaftis, Clark, Ingram, Danna, Kaindoh
DT: Jones, Hicks, Nnadi, Wharton, Saunders/Stallworth

Veachs last interview was amazing.

He says right now, they can make a small move… but once they get the deal done with OBJ it will open up space to do a big move if something makes sense.

So, stay tuned.

Maybe trying to make a move for Allen from Jacksonville for a pick or something similar to that could happen before the season opens. It sure seems odd that Veach said he was going to be aggressive with the DL and then kinda ignored tge position after Karlaftis. Something big is gonna still happen.

Why would they trade Allen? If they had drafted Hendrickson then I could see it but Walker isn’t the same as Allen. They’ll compliment each other.

Im not sure who it’s going to be, but going off Veaches comments it may be someone of that caliber.

It all depends on if OBJ hires an agent and gets a deal struck with time for Veach to try to work some magic.

Yeah, I've had $12-14 million as my 'working' number since our last round of signings and I definitely think we can fit a couple of tier 2 veterans in that figure.

I also think we're now close enough to being able to field an NFL roster that perhaps spit-balling the position is less wise than simply finding a couple of veterans and getting those spots locked in.

Both guys bring different skills to the table but do so in a way that nets the same kind of productivity - namely a pass rush. One from the inside and through technique and strength, the other from the outside through burst.

I think trying to pick one or the other is to leave the position a little undercooked. Even if you bring Ingram back, you still haven't added the speed you ideally have somewhere on the roster.

I think you want to bring all 3 of those guys in if possible and I think the cap space exists to make it work.

Spags telling George he was his number one guy 'by far' absolutely blew my mind. 'we were targeting you the whole time...' that's so wild. I actually share a similar sentiment.

My buddies at work asked me who our best pick was, you guessed it. Without hesitation George's name rolled off my tongue. This is a day 1 starter. His impact on our defense cannot be understated. George is the kind of guy that flat out wrecks game plans. He's that guy.

I like this, I'm in. Why so cheap?

I could see them moving Allen with all they've signed and such.

And then start who? I guess you can roll with Arden Key and Travon Walker at DE but that doesn't give you much bend on the edges at all.

At the pro level at his size I don't see him being an elite DE. Yogurt's style is likened to JJ Watt,,and there lies the problem because Watt is a natural 290 pounds.

George does it different than JJ. Don't confuse the two. Many GM's made the same mistake on draft night.

Hhe's not explosive or as quick as Tamba or Jared

Tamba:

Vert: 30
Broad: 810

Allen:

Vert: 33
Broad: 1000

Karlaftis:

Vert: 38
Broad: 1001

LOL, on the field yeah Tamba is more explosive and averaged 11 sacks per season at Penn State


Paterno even said Tamba was the best DE he ever coached

Tamba had 13 sacks in 23 games at Penn State and iirc was a DT his first year there.

Karlaftis had 14 sacks in 26 college games at Purdue.

I assume you're guaranteeing George will get 8 sacks his rookie year, and average 1.98 per game throughout his career after that.

Nobody said that. You just keep moving the goalposts.

Don't backpedal, you just said he's more explosive than Tamba.

How does pointing to how they both tested mean that I said he’s going to have a Tamba like rookie season?

He’s objectively more explosive than Tamba. There’s a significant difference in how they tested in that area.

That’s all I said.

LOL, will he be as good as Tamba yes or no?

I have no expectations because of his size and style isn't conducive unless he can invoke John Randle and succeeds as a 3 tech.

I don’t ****ing know. I don’t have a ****ing crystal ball here.

You have completely changed the argument because you’ve been proven wrong about explosion and production.

Ok, STFU about how great he can be.

I have no expectations, apparently you do

Who said anything about “how great he can be”?

Your reading comprehension is awful.

And you’re a complete ****ing dumbass.

LOL, wow

You should stop posting stats if you aren’t going to post accurate ones.

Nobody in the history of the league has averaged anywhere near 1.98 sacks per game.

Tamba had 89.5 sacks in 177 career games… or, to simplify, he had .50 sacks per game in the NFL. In college, he averaged .56 sacks per game.

Karlaftis had .54 sacks per game in college.

I’m trying to find stats on pressures to do a comparison of the 2 and I’m sure those will align nearly perfectly, as well.

The 2 are very similar in many many ways.

You would think being completely wrong about Nick Bolton would’ve humbled you just a bit.

Instead, you’re just as stubborn as you were about him.

Prove me wrong, I don't hide from bad takes unlike some

Yea, he also claimed he “averaged 11 sacks a game” in college.

Prove you wrong? How exactly am I supposed to prove you wrong about the future you ****ing reerun?

I already proved you wrong about their explosion and college production.

That’s all I can really do given that I don’t have a ****ing time machine.

Which averages to 1.98 a game for his pro career

If George is great awesome, I'll give him his due.

This all started when I said he doesn't play like Tamba, and then you brought up his pro day numbers where Tamba notoriously had an average showing

His 11 sacks a game in college (which he didn’t have ) averages to 1.98 a game in his pro career?

What the **** are you even talking about? Are you drunk?

Maybe he’s referencing how I said Tamba is the best comp for George and how I can see pro production of the 2 being very similar, too. Starting with high pressures and relatively moderate sack production early to gradually developing into a pressure creating monster that becomes a finisher (higher sack totals) not too long into his career.

Playing next to Jones
Premier coaching
Lots of pass rush opportunities
High motor
Good back 7
Pride and work ethic

Yea, but that doesn’t mean that you’re saying he’s going to be Tamba Hali either. You’re talking about his ceiling.

I don't feel like a forensic dissection of your posts because I'm on my phone so it's a pain in the ass.

Ultimately, you are not giving a definitive expectation for Karlaftis.

If someone is questioning his ability, and your taking a stance on the discussion make it clear because you're the one waffling

My expectation is that he will at the very least be a solid player.

His absolute ceiling is probably Trey Hendrickson, but that doesn’t mean that I expect him to be Hendrickson either.

Part of evaluating prospects is understanding that you don’t have a crystal ball. You seem to think you do.

It's part of having a take, you may be correct or not. That's why you see grandstanding when someone is correct or are silent when said poster is wrong.

I have no expectations, because unless he becomes John Randle 2.0 at 3 tech I see an average player at SSDE

How can you watch the 2 and come away thinking they don’t play similarly? You may need to watch some refreshers…they have a ton of similarities to their games.

They both played in the big 10, too…so they are battle tested.

Tamba was had insanely quick reflexes off the ball, and didn't play with power but technique and quicks.

Spags and Chiefs have high expectations of him so I'm going have high expectations for him. The kid looks like he is going be fun watching him get around or bull LT he is going disrupt the backfield and terrorize quarterbacks. Spags said he was the guy he wanted most out of everyone. If he doesn't turn out then that really sucks for us and bad look on Beck Vern. I don't see any reason not to have high expectations we are the Kansas City Chiefs in an era of domination of the league. So our defense is going start dominate to go along with our bombardment offense with a tenacious offensive line. Karlaftis is tenacious. We drafted tenacity and it's going to show. Our DBs will be heat seekers not afraid to hit we got guys that love to hit on defense now.

I'm ****ing stoked and ready to put on pads myself and get out there.

Leo Chenal is going bring tenacity Bryan Cook is going bring tenacity. Baow V3man is drafting guys with tenacity in their blood. My expectations are through the roof. We have a Tenacious D.

That much should be obvious.
They win in similar fashion.

Problem I have comparing Karlaftis to Hali is that they never called holding when LTs would arm choke Tamba and put him in a choke hold. That would never draw a flag. So I hope that's not the case for Karlaftis and that they throw the yellow flags on the LT holding.

Ref bias is total bullshit. They never called that shit.

Dude, put down the crack pipe.

Nobody has EVER in the history of the NFL averaged 1.98 sacks per game.

You realize that would mean that guys would be having 30+ sack seasons, right?

Only that has never, ever happened. The record is Strahan's 22.5 in a 16 game season. Which is nowhere near 2 sacks per game.

If you're going to post stats, make sure they're accurate.

You got smoked here.

If you don't like Karlaftis, that's fine, but don't lie about a bunch of statistics to try to prove your point.

People forget that after Hali's first 2-3 seasons, a large percentage of fans wanted him gone. Some argued he was a weak liability against the run and poor rusher. Patience.

Our fan base has higher expectations on these rookies. It's going be a problem when any of them make a mistake people like TEX or Comoreruun or DTVietcon or Pete will make a thread mid game to bitch about said player and say how much Bring Vilmore sucked with his draft picks.

We have a lot to prove but these kids seem motivated and I think hitting the weights and just learning what the coaches want them to do they will be better sooner I think than later but Chiefs fans need to be patient with some of them.

To put things in perspective, here is an excerpt from a 2009 article on Hali.

"Problem is, Hali didn't fare any better in 2007. The Chiefs gave up 5.7 yards per carry to Tamba's edge in that year. Good enough for 29th in the NFL (Hey, still an upgrade over the 32nd rank in the chart above). And teams recognized this, too, as more plays were run at Tamba's edge than all but one team in the NFL.

If you're noticing the beginning of a trend here then you won't be surprised to hear that in 2006 he was the target of the Chiefs' opponents' 5.42 yards per carry average, which pitted Hali's end as the 24th worst in the NFL.

After one below average and two terrible seasons, it's becoming clear that Tamba's not going to "get it" as people like to say. Judging by the statistics above, even two seasons with Jared Allen, Tamba Hali probably won't get much better in the rest of his career.

Time and time again we've noted Hali's statistical regression in rushing the passer (8 sacks, 7.5 sacks, 3 sacks). So, what exactly does he do well?

The scouting reports on him coming out of Penn State noted his run defense. Unfortunately, his game isn't complete in that area. In fact, Hali is well on his way to being at best a mediocre run defender that might be too small as a 3-4 defensive end but not quite quick enough as a 3-4 linebacker.

At this point of the game, Hali's going to be on the Chiefs roster as the 2009 season commences in September. But I'm willing to bet he won't be around much longer. His contract calls for base salaries of $940,000 in 2009 and $1.31 million in 2010 so the Chiefs can likely release him at any time without being handi-capped by the salary cap."

I don't really see him similar to Tamba at all.

You said tamba averaged 11 sacks per season at Penn state🤔🤔

The hand-fighting thing, I guess. Hali was really good with his hands and it helped him overcome having slightly shorter arms.

But Hali won with agility a LOT more than Karlaftis will. Hali got your hands off him then leaned around guys. What Karlaftis will typically do is shed that punch and then go THROUGH them.

I dunno...maybe a poverty Neil Smith? The Chiefs haven't really had a ton of power players on the edge.

Oh wait - Dan Williams. Y'all remember him at all? He had that one really good season and then a couple other pretty solid ones. Wasn't terribly fast or agile but when he was motivated he'd get into a guys body and kind of bully them out of the way.

But it's fair to point out that Williams was at his best when DT was opposite of him. He needed a speed threat on the other side to make teams shade that way or stagger their passing sets. I mean you can't really have one OT dropping into a vertical set and the other playing at 45 degrees or something because there's no pocket that forms.

So with DT out there, teams HAD to get into vertical sets or DT would blow past them. And with the OTs going vertical, Williams would have that room to operate, get them on an island and then push through them.

That's why I think we still BADLY need a speed rusher out there. Clark isn't going to have teams game-planning to ensure they beat a rusher to the spot. Nor will Karlaftis. So they won't rush to get vertical, they'll stay square to Clark and Karlaftis and they'll be able to do more to neutralize power.

Put Hughes out there and teams now have to account for the speed threat and they'll do more vertical sets. And when they do, Karlaftis will be FAR more effective.

We really needed another piece on this DL from this draft, IMO. We've constructed the line in a way that will make it less than the sum of its parts.

I think with Karlaftis, the question will be if his short-area quickness - the first step, his ability to wiggle - will continue to be enough, paired with his strength, heavy hands, and hand-fighting - for him to unbalance opposing offensive linemen by slowing their step/reaction.

He's very quick initially and was able to use it in college to get guys off-balance and then just brutalize them. If he can continue to progress at those technique items, he's going to be a really good pro. It's the type of package that always gave Eric Fisher fits at LT.

But yes, having a really speedy guy at RE who can force the QB to step up in the pocket (into the power-rushing angles of Karlaftis or Jones) would play up the whole situation.

As you noted, he's actually pretty damn quick off the snap. I think some of this 'he's not very athletic' stuff has been overblown into a belief that he's just a lummox out there.

No he isn't. He has good initial burst and even decent speed. He's just not real bendy. So you COULD widen his split out and let him use that speed/burst to 'fake' the angle a bit.

But then you're more susceptible to runs through the B gap. Now he's powerful enough to maybe close that lane through merely bullying the tackle on occasion, but not every time.

I think he's a good player and can really contribute here. I think he's also the kind of guy that is more difficult to find these days than a speed rusher. I just don't think we've done all we can do to make him as successful as possible. We treated him as a stand-alone difference maker and I just don't think that's the case. He has a very valuable and fairly rare - but still mostly complementary - skill set.

I believe what Veach said when he told everyone that they liked the secondary class a lot more than the edge class. He could have easily leaped up to take Drake Jackson or just taken Sam Williams over Skyy Moore but he didn’t.

I think that’s Spags philosophy. He’s gonna blitz and use a competent secondary full of versatile athletes to mix and match different coverages to confuse QB’s. Stop the run to make teams one dimensional and get them in 3rd and long to set up your blitzes.

I also think they know Ingram is coming back and they know he’s our best edge rusher. However I wouldn’t be surprised if they traded for a developmental player. They tried getting Omenihu and thought about Key but they think Karlaftis can fit that role, which he should.

Every year it seems like Veach tears down a part of the team to rebuild it. Last year was the OL and this year it was the secondary. That’s not at all surprising considering Matheiu and Sorenson both lost a step and struggled badly, Thornhill was getting lost on deep coverage making mistakes and Hughes just sucked.

With our division loading up I think they want to play the coverage game. Kinda crazy they brought in 3 veteran DB’s and drafted another 5.

:LOL:

89.5 sacks in 177 games

And how many sacks per game is that?

You are horrible at math.

That I do agree

All of this. The Chiefs were THRILLED that Karlaftis fell to their pick. This is the guy they targeted and wanted on the DL. Could they all end up being wrong? Sure. But, it's not like they had to settle for anything. Bronty Veers probably sprinted that card up the moment they were on the clock.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA


DUDE.

Do you even math?

89.5 would be less than 177, correct?

Like about half as many, correct?

So how do you get 1.98?

The real answer is about half. About half a sack per game, not almost two sacks per game.

Divided 177/89.5 LOL

yeah, it's 1.98 games per sack. Not sacks per game.

Anyway,

I think there's a whole lot of armchair GM's that had a guy they wanted, and when Veach took a different guy, they have to express their displeasure by tearing the pick down.

This, and really all of the picks with the possible exception of Cook were good value picks at positions of need. All are described as hard working, intelligent football players; and all had high RAS (relative athletic scores). So...I really don't see what there is to complain about YET.

Now, if the season starts and they suck balls, let it fly!

But at the moment, each of these are logical bets to be good football players.

I think we might get as many as 6 solid contributors out of this draft, and that's ****ing excellent by any standard.

Cook is a really interesting pick. It was clear that Barn Vobersnatch and other brass really wanted this guy. How much of that is attitude and how much of that is ability will be interesting to see. He clearly replaces Dan and should be an improvement there.

I think it's very difficult to overstate just how shitty Sorensen was and had been for a long time.

For a 'saavy veteran' that guy missed more tackles, blew more coverages, and just flat looked clueless 90% of the time.

But then every once in awhile would make a big play and the casual fans just loved him.

I ****ing hated him.

I cannot fathom just how bad Armani Watts must be.

Seth Keysor’s film study of Cook is very promising

This. Hali was surprisingly agile for as stocky as he was.

This is how I feel about Clark...kidding. But also not really, and also yes, Sorensen was ass.

My biggest issue with Clark has been (once I immediately dispensed with any DPOY upside) effort level.

I see that guy quit on so many damn plays. And when you watch Danna, you can tell how limited t he guy is but his effort pops off the screen. When you watch Wharton you can see how green he is, but again - the effort is obvious.

Then you watch Clark and man that guy loafed his ass off out there. Jones takes plays off as well but when Jones does he's at least still mostly present. He still occupies attention. And he does so significantly less often.

Clark, OTOH, doesn't occupy attention and doesn't tap out infrequently. He just kinda shoves his arms straight out and stands there. Then he'll have a snap or two where he tries to chain a move on a move and if those don't work he goes right back to jaking the rest of the drive.

He wouldn't drive me so freakin' insane if he'd just give a shit.

Sorensen just hit a physical wall and we asked him to do WAY more than he was capable of. So then he started cheating and then he'd get locked in a rocking chair.

From Bob McGinn:

Oh - that’s a good one.

Mid-late career Ninkovich when he muscled up a little more and started playing on the DL more. And it’s another example of how a complementary teammate can elevate a guy like that. Ninkovich was far more dangerous as a complementary threat opposite of Chandler Jones than he was as the top dog.

I'm shocked that a difference making pass rushing prospect wasn't available at 30 in the draft. Those guys always seem to drop.

Preaching to the choir. Can't stand the lazy POS.

Get this kid in the weight room and bulk up some strength and agility he will be more of a force to deal with. He seems like a guy that will do anything coaches tell him and he will prosper. He's young enough to add bulk to his frame and can work on getting quicker and powerful with leg press. He seems like he will work hard for this team. Stoked to have him like his attitude and personality will fit also. Greek the Freak.

He will likely struggle his first year but after he gets the feel for NFL level he will improve and each year he will wreck teams quarterback or running backs.

This draft diffidently set us up for success next several years along with last years O line draft and upgrades. Teams will learn to fear the Kansas City Chiefs

I'm tired how just because Tyreek Hill left us that all of a sudden we are going be a shitty team. We have always won as a team he didn't play every down and he missed some games we still had success. Just can't wait for this offense to make a statement that we are still here and even better than before. Verch drafted guys with tenacity on both sides of the ball and that's the level of play we are going get tenacity.

Watch his clips as a Freshman vs. the clips as a Junior - strength isn't an issue for him. He was actually a fair amount more agile as a Freshman than he was last year.

In some ways he may have pushed the needle a bit too far. And if you bulk him up any more, he's going to get more and more stiff.

He's just not a guy that can play at 270+ lbs and stay fluid. You may have to take a little weight off him in the search for a sweet spot if you want to get more pass-rush productivity out of him.

Or just leave him at 270 and have him play more a more SDE style of game. That's fine too.

Bottom line is more guys have to trade flexibility for strength unless they're unicorns and Karlaftis, while a good player, isn't that kind of guy. He's going to have a bit of a balancing act between power and agility.