God-dammit, I'm screwed!

I'd say thats fair enough.

Now, how about you give me some deeply personal details about your mother.

It might be "lots of good natured/free speech fun" when i call her every dirty name in the book.

Those who want to continue to take cheap shots at us who believe in a higher power shouldnt mind that...right???...even if she's dead, or ailing, or you love her more than yourself...right???

Yeah, "the 'ol bags in the ground...never to be heard from again...the nasty old worthless witch that she was"...that shouldnt bother you free speachers should it???

Its simply a matter of class, either you have it...or you dont.

Dont attack me & i wont attack you...does it get any simpler than that???

Hell why not, first I loved my mom like I am sure pretty much most of you loved yours. That being said she was before she died highly dysfunctional.

First the good, she was a brilliant person with at or near genious level IQ.

2nd she came from the wrong side of the tracks in Omaha Nebraska and obtained her schooling from Catholic Schools.

3rd she was a devout Catholic, so much so that I was brought through all the Catholic sacraments right up to but not including the last rites and of course I did not become a Priest. LOL

4th she was a brilliant accountant, the first one to obtain a CPA I believe in Kansas City without having an accounting degree. She also developed a method of book-keeping that she was asked to publish a text about (so she was published).

Now the bad:

About the time I turned 13 she turned delusional and would believe horrible things about my stepfather that were just not true and had no foundation.

She became abusive towards him and towards me.

She once in a fit of rage threw me across a room into a dresser as one example.

She once threw a glass into my stepfathers face with such force that it shattered in his face, the only time I ever laid a hand on my mom to calm her down. Got the only beating with a belt from my stepfather that I ever received for that, by the way.

She became an alcoholic when I was about 15 and when I was 16 and 4 days from graduation she killed herself.

There you have it the great, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Now Scott don't tell me I won't share the worst with you.

I always liked this ...

1. The only Real Existence is that of the One and only God Who is the Self in every (finite) self.

2. The only Real Love is the Love for this Infinity (God), which arouses an intense longing to see, know and become one with its Truth (God).

3. The only Real Sacrifice is that in which, in pursuance of this Love, all things—body, mind, position, welfare and even life itself—are sacrificed.

4. The only Real Renunciation is that which abandons, even in the midst of worldly duties, all selfish thoughts and desires.

5. The only Real Knowledge is the Knowledge that God is the inner dweller in good people and in so-called bad, in saint and in so-called sinner. This Knowledge requires you to help all equally as circumstances demand without expectation of reward, and when compelled to take part in a dispute, to act without the slightest trace of enmity or hatred; to try to make others happy with brotherly or sisterly feeling for each one; and to harm no one in thought, word or deed, not even those who harm you.

6. The only Real Control is the discipline of the senses to abstain from indulgence in low desires, which alone ensures absolute purity of character.

7. The only Real Surrender is that in which poise is undisturbed by any adverse circumstance, and the individual, amidst every kind of hardship, is resigned with perfect calm to the will of God.

FAX

That seems like an excellent definition of spirituality Mr FAX.

Jim...HONEST TO GOD & JESUS...i feel for you.

But it seems rather obvious that you took the bad experiences from your childhood & turned them into a deep seated hatred for anyone that believes in God & Jesus.

You remind me of Sissy Spacek's character in "Carrie", having a highly dysfunctional version of Christianity shoved down your throat.

Which brings me to a personal story of my own...close family...from Kansas City no less. I swear it.

My Uncle Bill & Aunt Helen...Uncle Bill was Pastor of a HARDCORE church....speaking in tongues...no tv...that sort of thing. It used to break the rest of my families heart how hard he was on his 6 kids...ESPECIALLY when they were young.

Now, to the rest of my family Uncle Bill was ( Aunt Helen, bless her heart, didnt have the gumption to resist) a VERY kind man...because he didnt expect the same from us as he did his kids.

Anyway, because of his hardcore nastiness...he had 1 son who married, had kids & then became a FLAMING homosexual who used to cruise some park with a big statue in KC looking for love...he's currently living here in central Ill. with his oldest brother ( who, while being the most "normal of the family" is quite odd himself) & dying from AIDS.

One of his other sons (my very beloved Uncle Bobby) is an uncurable alchoholic & drug addict, capable of ANY number of skilled trades...yet his childhood, i believe, haunts him to the point that he will NEVER get his life straight...last i heard he was in jail on DUI & vagrancy charges in KC. He's the guy who nearly got me killed at his drugbag buddies party that i mentioned several months ago.

Besides that, he has another son who has done relatively well & 2 daughters who's lives are FULL of sad dysfunction...as Uncle Bill told my Grandma (his wifes sister) years ago..."Donna, i've raised a bunch of idiots".

So anyway, i know FULL WELL, the twisted view a STRICT religious upbringing can bring...but it in...NO WAY!!!...excuses your blatant provocations...as Tim has pointed out ad nauseum.

We're all in the same boat as you are. It's not like heaven awaits those that sin less. Why do you think it's called "the good news"?

1) I'd love to have a smilie named after me... Don't care which one, or if it's deragatory.

2) I didn't mean to imply that Britney reads Chiefsplanet. Nor did I want to defend her in any way. I was trying to make an analogy just to give my perspective... Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it was a bad analogy. Again, I'm not trying to attack you (I almost typed bro without even thinking about it). I just don't think it's very consistent to have people who take offense when something bad is said about something they like, but find it OK to rip on anything that they don't like. People might think that religion is a "sensitive" topic, but... Why?... I really mean that... Why are people sensitive about this?

3) I use the word "bro" all the time. I like it. Didn't pick up on your sarcasm the other day, so I probably defended the use of the word a little harshly. I don't really remember slamming you though, that's not really my style. I think I said something to the effect that I didn't understand why you or anybody would be offended by its use and maybe you were too sensitive? Crap, I'm noticing a theme... Maybe I'm not sensitive enough?... But you see, that's why these discussions are important! I might have just, quite litterally improved my life and every relationship I have by realizing that I'm not sensitive enough... So, there you go.

4) I want to clarify that when I say that I want a forum that is uncensored, I don't say that so I can get away with being tactless. I hold myself to my own moral code that I would never intentionally hurt anybody or say mean spirited things whether it be here or elsewhere. I just don't want that to be an OBLIGATION. I like when the pot get stirred by people who have to obligation to be tactfull. I find that those conversations are the ones where I learn the most about other people. See how they act when they are a little rattled.

5) I rarely get offended by anything. Only thing I can think of is being called an "A$$hole" which I pride myself on being the exact opposite. I'm opinionated and passionate and often times vulgar, but I'm an extremely kind and generous person. I guess that's my one big button. So I can relate to the emotion of being offended, but I really, truely think that some people get offended on principle... Like they feel they have to, whether they actually have the "emotion" or not.