So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm.

It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.

A franchise QB is a guy who can lead 4th quarter comebacks in the most dire of situations, when everyone on the D knows he is going to pass, when the D pins its ears back, when the defense is playing uber tight coverage, and he wills them down the field.

Brady did it twice in the Super Bowl. Montana did it. Eli Manning did it. Elway did it. Hell, Jim Kelly did it in a Super Bowl.

It doesn't just have to be a Super Bowl, either. Manning has done it in the playoffs more than once, Steve Young did it against the Packers.

I've never seen a running game lead a 4th quarter comeback in a 2 minute drill.

Naw, not an evaluation, just an exercise to underscore the importance of the trying to acquire one. A response, if you will, to the True Fan's mandate.

I was thinking about the fans who are afraid of taking a risk to find one, when darn near every single one has led his team to the SB.

Even the current crop tends to suggest this. Roethlisberger, Manning. I wouldn't bet against Cutler. If season one is any indication, I'd put a ton of money on Ryan...

You're smoking crack.

And that "combination" was beat in the Super Bowl by Tom Brady.

FAIL.

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

after 15 years of abject failure, people still think that the only problem was 'execution'....they believe the philosophy behind our actions was sound...

this is what you can't make true fans see: it wasn't a matter of execution, our plan was flawed from its inception...the assumptions about how to build a team WERE WRONG AND THEY HAVE TO CHANGE

you either get it or you don't....and most kc fans don't get it, and never will

I get the point, but every player is drafted early to be a "Dominant blind side rusher", a "franchise left tackle", a "shut down corner" an "every down back" or a "#1 receiver".

Every position carries a label with it in the draft.

Basically, the True Fan has eschewed the idea of a franchise QB, the most important position, because they are afraid of the risk of one not working out, as though there aren't Robert Gallerys, Tony Mandariches, Blair Thomases, Charles Rogerses, Ryan Simses, Aundray Bruces, DeAngelo Halls,Michael Huffs and David LaFluers at every position.

That's my point.

You can't cheat and only use guys that were considered franchise guys after the fact.

I'm pretty sure Houston considered David Carr a franchise QB, or they wouldn't have picked him 1st overall.

You're also using guys that were picked in later rounds, and this place is notorious for saying you can't get a franchise QB outside the Top 15.

Again, I agree with you guys, but I think you're going about it the wrong way.

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the reerun fullback obsession.

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

i love tony to death, but i agree...

Agree 100%

Ok. I got you.

You're right that there have been all sorts of frauds, and there are going to be probably at least 2-3 imposters in the upcoming draft class. We'll have to sit through the bullshit spewed by Kiper, Jaws, and the rest, and many of these "franchise" guys will fail.

My only point is that the risk if worth it, and it's one that this franchise must take. For grins, let's say we are fortunate enough to draft a Stafford, and then let's say he sucks the penis for three straight years (or enough time for it to be clear that he's definitely not the guy, whatever amount that is). No development. No indication that he'll improve. I'm going to be the first to say, let's draft another QB. Let's keep firing.

True fan, b/c his mother clearly swallowed the fraction of the sperm containing his nut sack, is far too scared to try once, let alone to try, fail, and want to try again.

Then those guys weren't franchise QBs. :p

It's semantics at this point. We're in agreement, I believe. Point is, take the ****ing risk and be willing to deal with the consequences.