Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5867482)

To the Mane!

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 5870393)

I see an Elway debate sprang up here.

I think it's hard to compare great quarterbacks, really. So much had to do with the team around them, the type of league it was at the time, the things that QB could do that were unique to the NFL at that time, etc.,. I mean, Dan Marino was a great QB, but never won a ring. I think it's easier to talk about groups of QBs.

The top group, IMO, would have in it: Marino, Montana, Elway, Brady, Peyton Manning, Unitas, Tittle, possibly Aikman and Favre (as much as I detest him) or even Bradshaw (say what you want about him, the guy knew how to win and was tough as nails).

The second-tier would be guys like Warren Moon, Steve Young, Dan Fouts, maybe Stabler and Plunkett, Jim Kelly, guys like that.

A tough guy to place, right now, is Roethlisberger. He doesn't always do it pretty, sometimes resembling Favre, but he manages to get it done and has won the SB twice now. Depending upon how the rest of his career goes will tell whether he's top tier or second-tier.

When it comes to the top-tier guys, I think any of them in their prime make a great case for "best ever". The ones who don't have the obvious natural talent, seem to have the intangibles of leadership and decision-making and level-headedness (i.e. comparing, say, a Marino or Elway to a Brady or Montana).

As for Orton, Cassel, and Cutler... let's wait a bit before we decide to carve any busts for Canton.

As for where the Broncos rank in QB grouping, I think it's too low. I despise them, but their QB grouping isn't worst in the league.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5870611)

Big Ben is a remarkable QB. And I'd love to have him on my team. But Montana and Brady won Super Bowls even in years where they didn't have dominant defenses. Do I think he could have led the Rams or the Saints to the Super Bowl? I honestly don't think so. The Cardinals? I honestly don't think so.

I know that's a tough argument to make because most QBs have a different style, but I think Ben has the luxury of winning games where they score 20 points of less that most QBs don't have.

Originally Posted by JD10367 (Post 5870393)

I see an Elway debate sprang up here.

I think it's hard to compare great quarterbacks, really. So much had to do with the team around them, the type of league it was at the time, the things that QB could do that were unique to the NFL at that time, etc.,. I mean, Dan Marino was a great QB, but never won a ring. I think it's easier to talk about groups of QBs.

The top group, IMO, would have in it: Marino, Montana, Elway, Brady, Peyton Manning, Unitas, Tittle, possibly Aikman and Favre (as much as I detest him) or even Bradshaw (say what you want about him, the guy knew how to win and was tough as nails).

The second-tier would be guys like Warren Moon, Steve Young, Dan Fouts, maybe Stabler and Plunkett, Jim Kelly, guys like that.

A tough guy to place, right now, is Roethlisberger. He doesn't always do it pretty, sometimes resembling Favre, but he manages to get it done and has won the SB twice now. Depending upon how the rest of his career goes will tell whether he's top tier or second-tier.

When it comes to the top-tier guys, I think any of them in their prime make a great case for "best ever". The ones who don't have the obvious natural talent, seem to have the intangibles of leadership and decision-making and level-headedness (i.e. comparing, say, a Marino or Elway to a Brady or Montana).

As for Orton, Cassel, and Cutler... let's wait a bit before we decide to carve any busts for Canton.

As for where the Broncos rank in QB grouping, I think it's too low. I despise them, but their QB grouping isn't worst in the league.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 5870997)

I wouldn't put Farve in that first group.

For all the numbers he has put up, he also has cost his team more opportunities to advance in the playoffs with some ridiculous interceptions.

He has 28 interceptions in 22 career playoff games.

You simply can not keep giving the ball to the other team like he has and win.

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 5867484)

The Raiders, Browns, Jaguars, Redskins, Vikings (without Favre), Lions, Jets, Bucs, and 49ers are all in worse shape than the Broncos.

Kyle Orton is for real.