Dexter McCleon did a pretty damn fine job IMO.

He's not Champ Bailey, not a shutdown corner, but how many times did you see him get roasted deep for a touchdown, Bartee/Warfield style? Warfield got beat deep for a TD by 267 year old Jerry Rice for crying out loud. McCleon is twice the corner Warfield is.

Then there were his 6 interceptions. Early in the season when we were getting turnovers we were winning. Later in the year when we didn't, we weren't.

McCleon was a great acquisition at corner and did a damn fine job. You have to give Carl and Vermeil credit for that one.

Yep...and every superbowl team has had an edge weather it be talent, health or coaching. IMO the Pats won on coaching other than talent and that's why we hear and see DV assessing his job on a consistant basis.

It's ship, capitan, crew and that in some regards is all there is to it.

If I'm wrong than how else to you explain the Panthers?


Just something to chew on.

Again the Pats have PRO BOWL CB Ty Law.He makes MORE money than Champ Bailey.The Pats have had no problem paying him because they KNOW how important having a shut down Corner is to their defense.

I thought he did a great job...

But he did GET those interception's during the first 8 games. IMO as soon as we lost Maz the D went south (as we all know).

This all boils down to last years scheme and I know it but if Gun is the answer, why do we need Champ when we Dexter and Warfield?

actually on one of the portis runs Vermeil SAID that Warfield took the wrong gap that led to the 60 yard portis run.


1. Good Corners can go man on man ... which allows safeties to play closer to the line of scrimmage and cover tightends

2. with safeties on tightend instead of linebackers(see shannon sharpe for 200 yards) you get better tightend coverage.

3. since the linebackers don't have to fall into coverage they can attack the line of scrimmage with run support and blitzes.

4. when we blitz with a linebacker we don't have to drop a defensive lineman into coverage because the safeties are closer to the line of scrimmage and can slider over instead.

5. that means we now have 7 defenders(4 DL,3 LB) playing the run instead of just the 4 defensive lineman. Just the numbers alone will clog more lanes and improve the run defense.



all these things started with better corner coverage


not to mention the 140 tackles the cornerback got on our team last year

You're right. Also, on the postgame show on 101 the Fox, Eric Warfield said that he "lined up on the wrong side of the field" and that he was at fault for it.

Allright, we'll just agree to disagree. This is where I shake my head and leave the discussion :shake:

:thumb: I like the way you think. :D

yes it sounds familiar & even more so to DV. But if you want to go for it all now, why not sign cheaper-Vincent and have more $$ for other positions.

Great post!! :thumb: A cover corner in Gunther's scheme is a must.Some think McCleon can fill in.I agree that McCleon had a very good year,but he is not the big cover corner that Gunther covets and will most likely become the nickleback or the FS if Woods isn't retained.McCleon is NOT the answer in a GUNTHER D.

How much does Law make, what will Bailey cost?

Because Vincent is on the DOWN-side of his career.Bailey is in his prime.

I don't know why everyone's attacking me, I don't disagree with a single thing that's been said here. I said I shouldn't have said they had "no impact", we all know better than that. I don't think Champ Bailey or anybody would've mattered in that Denver game because that defense couldn't stop things when they absolutely knew what was coming over the last 2 years. I've said 350 million times I don't think any of that is a problem anymore and that we would be serviceable now just because of a coaching change. I agree with a lot of what's being said here, I was just making a remark regarding how everyone was complaining because we weren't looking at FA's supposedly and how the front office just didn't care and now the tune had changed somewhat. Instead, one little statement out of my post that I could care less about gets turned into some huge deal... it's like I'm running for President.

Either your I'm drunk or I need to down a few more to understand your reply.


Did you even read my "whole" post?

Agree to dissagree? :bong:

Let's pretend that's what we do. We sign Vincent. That contract will be the LAST contract he ever signs. He's got 2-3 years left in this league before he retires or Joins Rod Woodson at FS. He's going to want us to show him the money. Bailey would likely be CHEAPER at this point because we could back-load a longer term (5-7 year) contract. See Holmes or Green's contracts for similar approach. We don't have that option with Vincent because he KNOWS he won't ever be around to see that late-year payday...He's a good player though, and would be a solid addition.

THEN who do we target? What IMPACT LB or DL are out there? Is there a Warren Sapp talent at DT?

No....

Is there a Jevon Kearse at End who ISN'T always injured?

No...Winstrom is likely the most solid DE available. He's good, but no stud. I'll pretend we somehow land BOTH Vincent and Winstrom. Our defense is better. This year. But that's it. We've blown our wad.

This is just MHO but I'd rather improve our WR's and sign a STUD CB...We take a step up on offense AND on defense. A CB like Bailey allows us to blitz (making up for a lack of pass rush on from the D line) and we won't get burned with him locking up on his guy.

I kind of think the fact we have drafted Sims, Freeman, Wilkerson, Downing, Sharpe in the last three years while having added Truluck and just resigned Browning might be telling us nothing is going to happen along the defensive line. I would not be against getting a top notch MLB do you know of one that is available? I think the reason people are concentrating on CB is that it is a position of obvious need, there are a number of them available and most importantly we figure we only at most have a shot at 1 player based on what has been said by DV if that many.