In your dreams dude. Chiefs going to rip them a new asshole.

In all seriousness, congrats on being 100% debt free. I been 100% debt free since 2017 when I made my last payment on a car loan. No student loans, no car payments, no major credit card bills, etc. Absolutely nothing (other than the obvious basic necessities).

It's amazing how much money one can actually save and contribute to their retirement(s), if they know what in the actual hell they're supposed to be doing.

And I intend to stay debt free for as long as I possibly can, health pending.

I'm sure your family will enjoy your money after you pass since you are probably too big of a tight ass to spend it :D

You should pull a little money out of your piggy bank and buy yourself some Chiefs gear because the Raiders are not a good football team.

Would you even want a Raider fan to become a Chiefs fan? It's a bad look, IMO. For us.

:thumb::thumb:Had to give a few thumbs up despite the cheesiness

I have a hard time believing you're a millionaire but okay, whatever you say champ!

I'm so broke I can't afford to jerk myself off.

With a few smart moves and time, it's totally plausible to have a million dollars in assets.

Must be a fancy Jon Madden shrine

Great advice!

I am in fact, a lot more broke than i would like. But ive used most of my savings on my house, started a merch buisness thats made a few grand in three months and my wife got a better job and my daughter is almost out of daycare. Time to get back on that savings train. Then to the investment train.

I picture this dude sitting in a housing project somewhere leafing through a 100,000 paper IOUs reading "I owe you $10 for this blowjob."

Car is paid off and hasn't given me any maintenance issues. Going to drive it until the wheels fall off.

I'm taking a trip to Alaska over the 4th of July and flying first class. The entire trip is being paid for with credit card rewards. And I still haven't paid a dime in CC interest in at least 15 years.

Also, my house, which I bought in 2009 with only 3% down, has been by far the best financial decision I've ever made.

guessing "On Paper" would mean all assets totaled up to a sum of 1M+

Working on this myself. I just put as much of my monthly expenditure as I possibly can on my credit card then pay it off at the end of the month. 2% cashback isn't a huge amount, but it does add up over time.

Hopefully I will be able to take a trip fully paid for in cc rewards soon like yourself.

This is what I do. I put all my bills and most of my expenditures on my southwest card and pay it off at the end of each month. Zero interest. Last year I earned the southwest companion pass. Before that I used Disney rewards and earned 3-4 free hotel trips over the years.

It requires discipline to not go over budget each month, but it’s fairly easy to do.

We travel quite a bit, so I've slowly drifted to the "go big" side of the rewards game. My current setup is the "Chase Trifecta":

• Chase Sapphire Reserve - $550 annual fee (but $300 of it is an instant travel credit, so it's really more like a $250 annual fee). Gets you into airport lounges and comes with travel insurance and primary rental car insurance. 3% on dining and travel.
• Chase Freedom - No annual fee. 5% back on rotating categories.
• Chase Freedom Unlimited - No annual fee. 1.5% back on everything.

You can transfer points to travel partners (including United and Southwest). Or you can just book travel through Chase at a 50% bonus (perk of the CSR). So with that, you basically end up at 4.5% on dining and travel, 7.5% on rotating categories, and 2.25% on everything else.

It's a bit complicated, but if you travel and eat at restaurants a lot, it adds up quick.

For those of you who prefer the pure cash back credit card game, you might want to consider the Citi Custom Cash card that they just released as a secondary card. It gives you 5% back on whatever category you spend the most on each month (on up to $500 spending/$25 rewards). So if you have a big family and spend $500/month on groceries, it's a 5% card for groceries. Spend a lot on travel? It's a 5% travel card. Spend a lot on gas? It's a 5% gas card. Kind of a cool implementation.

At this stage in my life, I don't have much debt. My mortgage is pretty minimal. My cars were all bought with cash. My oldest Son graduated College in May and his bills have all been paid. My youngest Son has two years of College left, and I've set aside everything that he needs to finish out. I'm going to retire at the end of 2023 (barring any sort of world economy collapse). I'll be 56 at that point and ready start racking up some SERIOUS debt :)

That's interesting. I will have to look into it.

To make things easy, I've been sticking with the Capital One Quicksilver which gives either 1.5% or 2% cashback on all purchases, if I'm not mistaken. I use this one for most of what I buy.

And I have an American Express. I think it's the BlueCash Every Day card or some shit like that. I believe that one gives 3% cashback on groceries and gas so I pretty much exclusively use that one for those types of purchases.

To anyone who has a card that gives points, do you find that efficient? I was looking into a lot of travel cards and I'm just not comfortable since I'm not sure what the conversion rate on points to dollars is. Signing up for a travel card that'll get you 50,000 points to start sounds great but I wouldn't be surprised if you'd need millions to actually have any sort of legit worth.

Yep - that's a Net Worth Equation. If you have enough tangible assets that are primarily paid off and very little to no debt, it's not unthinkable that you could accumulate ~$1MM in Net Worth even if you haven't had a lucrative career.

It's one of the things that I like about the Chase version of "points" - you can always redeem it in their travel portal, or you have a lot of different places you can transfer them. It's quite a bit more difficult to get good value on airline (or hotel) specific points for basic stuff. They're more ideal for luxury experiences. That said, here's a list of various currencies and what this particular website values them at:

https://onemileatatime.com/value-miles-points/

I grew up poor. Most of my life I was poor. I'm no longer poor.

If you have an airline of choice or live in a hub city an airline rewards card could be ideal.

We use Southwest Rapid Rewards and have been flying on points for a few years now + companion pass. Obviously it all got disrupted in 2020.

You should have dumped all of your money into paying off the house years ago, no matter how much you could have made with it in your 401k/investments during that time!!!

Yeah, not to say it's 'easy' and everyone should have a million dollars in assets by their mid-50s, but if you've bought and sold a few houses over decades or have held onto property that's skyrocketed over the years, plus have put some effort in squaring away a 401k, it not some insane goal to have at least half of that wrapped up in equity (the right rental properties are great for this, even if you're barely breaking even year to year), then the target 401k at 55 I assume would cover the other half.

Definitely a good goal by that point in life, and with the right investments and strategy, should be more than enough to retire (unless maybe you plan on living until 110).

ROFL

I had honestly forgot about all those discussions. Obviously DaFace is still salty.

Thinking back I think this thread was the one the prompted me to stick everything on the card for the points.

Not broke at all...

https://external-content.duckduckgo....gif&f=1&nofb=1

I'm very, very rich in experiences........

He's backed off on it a bit, but it's still just such a ludicrous position to take that people should avoid all debt at all costs. Granted, I kind of got lucky in buying to a housing market that has been red hot ever since I bought our place, but I calculated it up the other day, and the value of my house has appreciated more than the sum total of all of the money I have put into it (principal, interest, and repairs/upgrades/maintenance). It's like I've literally been able to live rent free in my own house for a decade.

To put it another way, if I'd rented all of this time, I still probably wouldn't have saved enough to pay cash for my place even in 2009 values, and the price has nearly tripled since then.

My net worth would literally be $300k+ lower right now if I'd followed R8ers advice.

You should never be debt free due to tax purposes, inflation, and the opportunity cost of tying that money up that can be otherwise used as earning power or other investments.

Don't listen to Dave Ramsey. Dave Ramsey is for people who can't wrap it around their heads that they shouldn't spend a ton of money on 40k truck if they make 40k a year. Managing your money is one of the easiest things to do on this planet, that for some reason most people cannot do.

I grew up poor. Most of my youth I was poor. I'm no longer young.

They say the first million is the hardest. Not in my experience. The first million was quite easy.

I have an addictive personality so I'm staying away from my gateway million...

Depends on how AMC does.

That's the dumbest advice Ive ever heard.

You should always try to be debt free.

The exception is if you can borrow money at 3% and get a guaranteed return great than the rate you borrowed at, go for it.

To carry debt just for tax purposes is assinine.

Yeah. I’m not sure exactly what he’s getting at from the tax side of things. Sure interest is deductible, but principle payments are exclusively post tax. You get depreciation, so if you keep it for the term of the depreciation and term of the note, it’ll net 0 on the tax side.

Hmm, never thought of the whole rent/buy debate that way, from a future value of money/property perspective... probably because coming at it from that direction and wanting to save for years on end and pay cash for a house is so ridiculous, that it never enters into my thought process.

Shit poster shit posts... granted, that's kind of the point of this thread.

One day it's "ermergerd I'm paying $600 a month on electricity and have no idea how" and another day he's a multimillionaire... sometimes in the same thread.

Other than cryptocurrency, buying property has been the best thing financially I've ever done. I bought a house in 2008 for 160k that is now worth 275k. I bought a property in 2010 for 250k that is now worth damn near 500k. I bought the house I live in now just 4 years ago for 250k and it's now worth 375k. I lived in them for a bit, then moved out & just rented them. Why you would ever rent is beyond me. Just flushing money down the toilet. Think long term not short term.

The dumbest thing I'm doing right now is some Dave Ramsey shit, just letting my 10 BTC I cashed in on May 12 sit and rot in my bank account. I haven't figured out what I'm going to do with it yet. Might start flipping houses like a buddy of mine is doing making money hand over fist - doing no work himself.

Yeah one of the homes I own I pay for the utilities due to how it's set up with the renters but that can heavily deducted so it's not the end of the world. One of the reasons I'm getting rid of it. I'm starting the renovation process on that home as we speak, just need to replace some floors & paint it and I'll be getting 275k for it probably by end of August. Based on the rent and property gains I've received from that home, more than worth it.

Don't rent. Don't do it. And this is coming from a guy who does NOTHING himself. Hire everything out. I don't even own a lawnmower. I don't paint. I don't landscape. I don't clean. Still worth it. If you are one of those souls that is good with your hands and actually likes fixing shit, I can't think of a better thing to do than to buy a fixer upper of a house (not in cash) and gradually fix it up while you live there, maybe rent out a basement or create a live in apartment for some income property within it.

So you are just going to abandon the best thing financially you've ever done?

You don't really want to rent homes that you own outright. You always want to be financing them due to tax benefits and nd LTCG etc.

OK. But what about what I was talking about?

Oh my bad, I thought u were mocking me and that was directed at me. Carry on.

FFS. Why are you abandoning crypto?

Where did he say he's abandoning crypto?

I'm not. I only cashed in 30% of my crypto, and only bitcoin. I didn't sell any Ethereum. That Elon tweet freaked me the **** out. After hodling for years....the enviro concerns scared me enough to hedge my holding somewhat. I still believe in it, I just don't believe with 100% certainty that it will become 100k BTC someday like I used to.

Again, there's a huge caveat that I got really lucky and bought in the bottom of the housing bubble's burst. And another bubble bursting could cut that down dramatically.

But yeah. I have friends who are paying $500 more per month in rent on a 1000 sf apartment than I'm paying for my mortgage on my 2500 sf house.

”I don’t clean”? how is your personal hygiene?

We just paid off our house this year that we bought in 2008 right before the crash. I don't hold any debt aside from month to month credit cards. We should hit $1MM net worth as soon as next year.

I'm a poker player, man. It's well known we stink. Can't leave the table on a heater.

I pay a housekeeper. But if they could figure out some water bed I can lay in that would clean me while I sleep - sign me up.

13 year paying off a house. Very nice. I think that is about the sweet spot versus going at it for 30 years. Congrats.

Yeah. Dave Ramsey shit won’t work on anything business related. At least in a competitive environment.

For personal expenditures it’s not a bad strategy who wouldn’t otherwise manage it.

Right on man. I was too chicken shit. I put 10% down.

I have come to terms with the idea that from a practical perspective Ramsey’s stuff is probably good for those who would be irresponsible or otherwise wouldn’t manage personal expenses at all. From a technical perspective it’s inefficient at best. Garbage at worst.

As far as the zealots, I manage to tune them out. Most of them shut up when I tell them I have an MBA and make capital and debt decisions based on perspective returns.

Of all the shit that makes me ****ing crazy, Ramsey should be on it. But somehow it doesn’t ping the sonar.

EDIT: Is there an advantage to not putting 20% down?

Yeah, I would see that in KC a lot, and the housing market is insanely cheap compared to out here. You could find a decent apartment (several years ago) for ~600-750/month, but friends would want the fancy $1100+/month place while I was paying $700 on a 15 year mortgage (and I wouldn't do the 15 year again when I could just pay extra on a 30, but whatever)..... I didn't do much more than break even overall, but at least got 5 years of equity back, whch was still far better than renting.

Yeah, PMI is a ****ing scam and is a thing up to having 20% of the loan paid off... it may still make sense to throw $100-200 down the toilet for a while as opposed to rent, but that's one mental hurdle that's tough for me to get past because the whole concept is so ****ing stupid.

Yeah I edited my post as there would be an obvious variable of how close one is to 20% to make that rent/vs buy with less that 20% decision level

EDIT: and also the timing of the housing market similar to '09, could make more sense to dive in without 20%

For a moment I thought you were talking shit on our lord and savior PMII. I was about ready for a throw down.

Thinking long term has pretty much been the central tenet of my philosophy on life and everything else. Unless the short term is something that will kill me, like an alligator attack or standing in front of a moving train, I've always chosen the path that's best for the long term. For a long time it didn't seem like it was paying off, and then about ten years ago everything kicked in. The past decade has been very very good to me.

Yeah, at a high level, I'd say at least you're still building equity, even if you're getting a lower percentage of your payments back when you sell... and if you buy low, then at least there's a decent chance you would more than make up for the money thrown down the toilet.

I'd guess it could be a ~$5-10k thing over a couple to 5 years, maybe... as opposed to renting over that time. Not the worst hurdle to overcome in the long run.

If you already have 20% down available, there's the opportunity cost of what you could invest that money in versus avoiding the cost of PMI... and in that case it might make even more sense to put your money elsewhere and pay PMI (bastards! :cuss: ).

Our house value has went up $240K in the last 2 years. No way a 401K gets that ROI.

Life in Tampa or wherever in Floridastan must be good.

Where has housing prices increased the most in the last few years at least in terms of percentage?

Not sure what that has to do with paying off sooner versus investing?

Maybe east valley of Phoenix? We have gained 120k plus in 11 months. (33 percent). I suspect we could get more than that. Everything is going for over list and often cash on the same day. People exiting California.

Yeah, it's nuts... I kind of want to list mine for like 150% of what I paid just a few years ago to see if someone would actually pay it (the internet seems to think someone would). And if so, move into some fixer upper, or hell, find something cheap to rent for a bit.

Mine was $95/month on a ~$200k mortgage. However, due to the rapid appreciation I was able to refi only 3 years in to get rid of it, so I only paid ~$3500 due to it.

People outside of CA want this to be true so so bad. The house next to me (in San Diego) just sold for $70K above asking price. The value of the home grew over $200K in the last two years.

My coworker just sold one of his houses a few months ago. It sold within 48hrs and he got $50K above asking price.

What's really happening is that the value of CA homes are just that much ****ing more than everywhere else. Real Estate here is insane. Pssst it's not because no one wants to live here.

If you were a retired Californian you woulda bought a $500K house a few years ago that'd now be worth well over $800K, and then sell the damn thing for almost $900K, then move out of state and pocket a couple hundred racks. You'd end up moving next door to some full-of-hot-air conservative that will tell you the real reason you left Cali was because of politics when in reality it was because it'd be ****ing dumb not to considering the profit $$$

The net loss last year was 181,000 people, which isn't even a half of a percentage point when there are 43 million in California.

But hey, I'm all for it. If millions were to leave SoCal, maybe I'd spend less time on the freeways stuck in parking lot-style traffic.

KCU's question made me think about how much you'd actually end up paying, and yeah, I think in many/most cases, it would make sense over renting for however many years it would take you to save up.

I'd probably want to punch a banker in the face every month I grudgingly paid it.

Doing good for our age but still really bummed we didn’t rent our first (built 2012) and 2nd house (built 2016) out when we left. With the equity paid off during that time alone and appreciation we’d have $150k in those houses in less than 10 years. That’s not counting profit from rent and depreciation either.

Oh well. You live and you learn

4 years ago we were worth half a million and had less than $25k in debt. Then some life things happened that changed my perspective on things. Today we are worth about the same and have around $100k in debt, but we are living a far better lifestyle. Live a little...you can't take it with you.

anything on the water in Florida has exploded. when I moved to St. Pete in 2010, it was considered Gods waiting room because of all the old people. They made Cocoon about a mile from me. It had seen its better days. But, we could afford to buy a house on the water here. So we bought a house.

Now, It’s the millennials moving in from all over the USA. It’s a boom town. I’m on the water. If I had bought a downtown condo instead of a house, I’d made $500K+ so far. It’s ridiculous. It’s basic market supply and demand capitalism.

Feel interest rates would be an additional consideration.

We’re living in a buy no matter what generation.

I never said people are leaving for political reasons. I just said people are moving to AZ because they get more home for the money and are pocketing cash

Our house here in Phoenix gained 30% equity in the past 12 months. It’s pretty absurd IMO.

Its almost as if some alarms bell should be going off, but I'm sure everything is fine

Property up here is pretty crazy , people leaving big city since most people can work from home now that you can bye waterfront property up here easily when you sell your Toronto home. Just sold my rental got 20k k Ed list cash no conditions in a week, it was old shithole.

As far as debt goes we don’t have much maybe 100k left on lake house which we could pay off but we are making decent on investments right now so rather kick money into that, marrying a doctor helps lol.