So 10 percent of the time they lose. I would not call that uncommon. I would say that occasionally ku loses there. 90% in that situation, how many close games are played a week in college bball. They are 200ish teams, and each team plays about twice a week, so that is around 200 games a week...out of those two hundred games, how many of them are lead by one team at around 8 points or so with two minutes left? I would think that situation would be fairly common. 100 times or so? That would mean that comeback happens 10 times a week or so. More than I thought.

My bad, I didn't even realize which thread I was posting in. The same discussion is going on in both of them.

Is he <b>STILL</b> bitching about last night's game?

Someone seriously needs a life adjustment.

24 hours. No breaks. I recommend switching to decaf.

Anybody that describes what I've posted as bitching/complaining/whining really isn't paying attention.

I understand completely that home crowds influence officials and that home cooking is a part of the sport, I've only been explaining that.

10% chance at a comeback at that stage is still quite slim. It's a bit more than I thought too, though. I was expecting about 5%. It's probably about that in the NBA level, where guys actually consistently hit their FTs.

You must be new here.

This is the single most pig-headed sonofabitch on the board, maybe on earth. He's like a terminator. Can't be reasoned with, can't be bargained with. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, as long as one person out there disagrees with him.

It used to infuriate me. Now I'm just sort of in awe of it. :D

It's amazing. It has to be some kind of record. That many posts covering at least 3 threads all bitching about the same ****ing thing for 24 hours straight. Even my ex wife couldn't bitch that much, and she was the queen of nagging.

Unless I was posting in my sleep last night, I don't think I've been going for 24 hours straight.

ku has been in that situation probably ten times or so this year.... so they were due. 10% is pretty high number, especially given the amount of games played in a basketball season. That is probably a matter of semantics, what you rate slim, I would call occasionally.

It really is impressive, in a very sad kinda way.

Holy shit, this is some dedication... determination... to drive one point home. I don't even know if the guy slept last night. And in the end, it means nothing.

Game's over, man. He lost.

MCF is like me....here since the beginning but just doesn't post all that much.

Unless I am missing this as a tongue-in-cheek reply and you already know that.

I try not to pay attention to Kansas fans in general, especially around basketball time. I'm not even a Big-12 fan and they still irritate the shit out of me.

Bad enough I have to put up with Pitt State, Ft. Hayes St. and Washburn fans.

They get that a lot from the peasants.

n00b

If anybody has been educated about the game through anything I've posted, it won't have meant nothing.

The only thing folks have been educated on is how bad a sore loser you are...and that ku fans are delusional, cause the refs are the only ones that can beat ku.

Remember the Missouri/Texas game? Missouri had a 94% chance of winning with 4 minutes left and a lead of 10. That's the kind of comeback you don't see too often. It went all the way down to 45% with half a minute remaining, before MU came back and brought it to 100% after the Dixon layup/stop on Kabongo.

Oh, JFC. :facepalm:

There's very little reason for me to be sore about any of this, and I'm certainly not. A reg. season game like this won't even impact the ultimate success of this season for either team. And KU will get the same benefit of the home calls when they play next like MU did, I'm sure.

kc_connection, educator extraordinaire.

Well you're certainly taking it in stride.

I think so.

Thank God. I thought they were going to have to take you in for shock treatments there for awhile

I wish I had your ability not to obsess over a loss.

It's a gift.

LMAO @ KCC

Guess what's on ESPN U.

Hopefully KCC is watching ESPNU.

He might not obsess over a loss, but he is way too stubborn to not have the last word, even when everyone else thinks his opinion is off the wall.

Hey, I know you and others are not my personal recruiting service but could someone give me a cliff's notes of the transfers we have coming in next year. interested to see the make up of what this team might be like next year.

Keion Bell from Pepperdine, Earnest Ross from Auburn and Jabari Brown from Oregon who was a 5 star recruit coming out of HS, all 3 are guards.

Wanted to make sure we got this one posted as well.

If you Beakers could keep showing these to 'prove' your point, that would be great. All I see there is a guy that clearly has position leaning into contact because he's allowed to brace for impact. Taylor was shooting a runner, ****ing Neo wouldn't have been able to avoid contact there. All Dixon did was rock forward to keep from getting detonated.

He clearly had position and his feet were clearly set.

Just keep on 'educating' us, dickhead.

Dixon wasn't set at all, that's why he was leaning into Tyshawn in the first place. And no, you can't lean into a player with your body/arms as he's about to take a shot, that's a foul. And it's properly called in most situations without a raucous home environment.


If that's what you want.

If you establish position on a running shooter, yes, you are allowed to brace yourself for the hit. I'd say I can't believe that you're actually trying to argue that Dixon didn't beat Taylor to the spot...but of course I can believe you're arguing that. If you establish position, as Dixon did, the rules do not require that you stand there defenseless in order to draw a charge. You're allowed to brace and that brace can absolutely mean shifting your weight into a charging shooter.

It was absolutely a charge. As was Robinson throwing an elbow.

But keep seeing what you want to see.

The last word is yours - I'm sure you'll have something new and enlightening for us.

He's an educator.

That's because he didn't beat Taylor to the spot...not entirely. He was forced to lean into him at the last moment because he wasn't able to get that position (which, as I've mentioned, is normally called a foul in most situations and would have been had the game been played just about anywhere else).


Neither was anywhere close to a charge. The first was a flop (should have been a no-call) and the second was a clear defensive foul on Dixon.

You too.

I try.

Took this pic from my seat on Tiger Row Saturday night,wow what a view.

Look where Taylor's front foot is. It's behind Dixon. Taylor went right through Dixon. He didn't lean forward to cheat into position. He braced himself because he was about to get trucked.

Dickie V. thought it was great, great, great defense. There may be dispute about the Robinson call, but only the beakers are complaining about the Taylor call.

Of course, Dickie V. can also be full of it, but in this instance I think it is pretty clear that it was great defense. Only an absolute homer would think that is not a charge.

Even the Beakers on 810 this morning said the Taylor call was a clear charge.

Dickie V. says T-Rob charge was bad = Even Dickie V. said so

Dickie V. says Taylor charge was good = Dickie V. is full of it


LMAO...the KCC Defense

I thought it was 50/50 with the hometown refs getting the benefit of the doubt, but looking at that still pic Dixon is leaning into Taylor which should always be a block.

That's a still...look at the actual play, not just one split-second of it ...it was a clear charge

Bah, homers! Just FYI unless you have the name DUKE across your chest that doesn't pass for defense in the tournament, Just sayin'.

Anyone have a gif of it? I'd like to see one on the foul that English got for being shoved to the ground as well.

Thoughts on the game:

1) I have a golden tongue. Speaking mongrel Spanish, I managed to convince the sports director of my resort in Mexico to open up the Dance Club early and play the game on the big screen.

2) How big of a bitch is Jeff Withey? He got shut down by a 6-5 shooting guard. He also has some pretty severe Tim Duncan syndrome, apparently (in that the first whistle that goes against him that he agrees with will be the first).

3) Have watched the replay on Taylor/Dixon MULTIPLE times. I have long hated the rule in college basketball player that allows a defender moving backwards to take a charge if they beat a ballhandler to the spot, but that's what happened there. It is not required to be set in the traditional completely motion-less, feet planted shoulder-width apart, vertical arms stance to draw a charge in that situation.

This is a great exhibition of that rule. Still shots in basketball are great for some things (was it a 3, did the ball get off, was someone out of bounds). They are not consistent when it comes to body-to-body contact of D-1 quick-twitch athletes. I don't care what the still of Dixon shows. Watch the replay. He moved diagonally, beating Taylor to the spot. Taylor then initiates contact with his forearm into the chest of the defender. That's pretty close to textbook definition of how a defender can draw a charge there.

4) Have watched the replay on Moore/Robinson multiple times. Don't want to hear anything about that charge call (though it was definitely a close call, it is not the awful call I thought it was when I first saw it). Moore beat Robinson to that spot, and Robinson initiated the contact.

Also, if you want to moan and complain about that call and watch the replay, you'll notice that Robinson violated the jump stop rule on that play (traveling well before the contact was initiated). He gathered the ball, took a skip, jump stopped (which really can be called a travel right there), landing on his LEFT foot first, and then used his RIGHT foot as his pivot foot. That's a travel. When jump stopping, if one foot lands before the other, that foot is the pivot foot.

5) Loved watching Taylor channel Christian Moody on the FTs, almost as watching Conor Teahan get abused by Marcus Denmon (which should remind Conor why he isn't allowed to 'woof' it on the basketball court).

While watching this in real time, I thought it was pretty tacky.... but after seeing his blatant flying elbow into the ribs of Steve, I'm really glad that was called.

Just curious, why do you not think a defender should be able to take a charge while moving backwards? The defender has (and should have) just as much right to the spot as the offensive player.

Look at it in reverse. If the dribbler is slowly backing up and the defender runs through him at full speed, its an obvious foul. Just because a guy has the ball doesn't mean he should get to bulldog players.

Moving backwards is one thing. It's the moving diagonally portion of it that I dislike. Creates a lot of gray areas and, in my opinion, something that is very difficult to call accurately in real time.

Meh, I think it's a no-call at best. Dixon isn't allowed to lean into contact, regardless of whether or not he's "bracing" himself. Taylor is trying to step t his right, around him, and Dixon is leaning to his left to try and block him off. You can't do that. And his feet are clearly not set. Just because he wasn't TRYING to foul doesn't mean it isn't a foul.

On the flip side, Taylor did go in a bit out of control, and didn't do enough to avoid contact. They fouled each other. Refs should have just let that one go.

IMO, it was Taylor's lack of control that probably sealed the call for the ref. If a player has complete control there, they usually won't call that.

I re-watched the game on ESPNU after the SB last night and when you're not at a bar and watching it for particular moments, they look a little different.

The charge on Taylor is clear as day. The more I watched that one, the more obvious it became. That was absolutely textbook defense on a committed player. To try to argue that this wasn't a clear charge just destroys someones credibility. It would've been called a charge on any neutral site in the nation. Go in real time or slow it down; immaterial - it's a charge.

The Robinson one, OTOH, was much closer as you watch the whole play. If I were a completely disinterested fan, I'd probably say it should've been a no-call in that situation and with those stakes. How the game had gone to that point, I think you could definitely justify the official just swallowing his whistle.

That said, from a textbook standpoint, I think it was a charge. Moore had his feet set and he had his position. Robinson charged into the lane and used his elbow and Moore's body to roll off the defender and improve his shot attempt. To play that offensive series 'clean', Robinson would've had to have stopped his forward momentum and taken a much tougher shot. He would probably needed to pick up his dribble as well. In other words, Moore did a nice job of defending that play and Robinson had to body him up and elbow him to get himself free for that easy put up.

That's exactly what we have charging violations for - to reward the defender for putting himself in a spot where he can stop the offensive player's drive. Moore did exactly that and he held his ground (as he is entitled). Without bodying into him and getting that elbow into his chest, Robinson wasn't going to have nearly that easy a shot attempt, if he even got a clean attempt at all.

The way the game was called and at that point in the game, I could see the official letting it go. At the same time - the rules say that's a charge. As a Missouri fan, I'd have been pretty pissed had they let Robinson use his body to create a shot like that.

I'm worried about a letdown at Oklahoma this evening. Can't believe we have to play a road game less than 48 hours after playing KU. How in the hell does that work?

If the Robinson charge had been a no-call, wouldn't the outcome have been the same? Missouri got the rebound.

Robinson made the shot. It was a 5-6 point swing, depending on whether or not they call a foul on Moore and T-Rob makes the shot.

Latest Bracketology is out. Lunardi has Mizzou as a 1 seed in the West.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

So we get shipped to California as a reward for being a 1 seed? Sounds right.

Silock's right, he hit it.

Then again, that's part of the reason I'm not going to apologize for it being called. If he doesn't body/roll off a set defender in Steve Moore, he doesn't get into position to hit that shot. His drive had been sealed off by Moore and he had not choice but to either pick up his drive and settle for a set shot, or body Moore up and position himself for a makeable shot.

He chose the latter, but the latter's technically against the rules.

Had he missed the shot, it certainly would've been a no-harm/no foul situation. But he clearly used Moore's body and the running elbow to put himself in a position to make the shot. There was an unquestioned 'harm' that came from his decision. So for KU fans to say that it shouldn't have been called and that it was a 5- point swing is really disingenuous - he doesn't make that shot but/for the illegal contact. And it's flat out insane to claim that they should've called a foul on Moore instead when Moore had clearly established his position.

Gotta make sure Kansas gets that St. Louis slot. Can't make the darling Jaybirds leave their comfort zone or anything.

Sorry, I was thinking about the one where Dixon was knocked down. I obviously haven't obsessed enough over these. :)

I was otherwise entertained all weekend so thought I'd pop by and say congrats Mizz-eww. Poopy heads all of ya.

See ya in AFH.

Far too much has been made of the TRob charge. As others have pointed out, it didn't really matter to the outcome of the game. Thompson fell apart at the end and MU capitalized. Ballgame.

The return trip to Lawrence will be a classic I'm sure.

These games are what make college hoops great. Savor them while we still can.

Tough game on the road again tonight. Hope the Tigers can respond after that game Saturday night

Thompson?

He's right. Thompson didn't do shit down the stretch. Really, he was invisible all night.

I'll concede that.

He still got called for 2 charges, though.

Ohio State's bad loss isn't as bad as Mizzou's, and OSU has played 6 games vs top 25 teams (4-2) while MU has played 3 (2-1)... and in that bracket, the 2 is also getting shipped out west while Baylor goes east, and the 3 is UNLV, so they aren't exactly screwed in that situation.

And speaking of Ohio State, is it illegal in the Big 10 to move when you don't have the ball? I gave up on OSU/Wisconsin after watching about 5 minutes late in the 2nd half. One guy dribbles around the 3pt line, stops, passes. That guy dribbles a few steps, stops, passes. Everyone else just stands there until they get the ball or someone shoots.

Meanwhile KU plays in St. Louis.

It's always been like that (well, each year is a little different, of course, but it's happened many times)... the last #1 seed is the one that gets shipped across the country, while the first #2 seed stays in region. KU was the #1 in San Jose the year UCLA was #2, and UCLA won the region by beating KU.

Given the same situation, at least there's not a west coast team that's even arguably a #2. Of course, it's better for the fans to play in Omaha and then St. Louis, but I doubt they would get out of that region.

That was the worst.

ku should not be the first 2 seed though. They were ranked #8 before the game, they will drop at least a couple of spots in the new poll, and they now have 5 losses. One could argue they are much closer to the last 2 seed than the first.

They actually moved up to 7 in the AP.

I have it on good authority that KU outplayed Mizzou the entire game and will be rewarded by moving up in the standings while Mizzou drops a couple of spots.

ROFL