Well, We Probably Should Have a Brian Orakpo Thread...
 

If we keep playing like this, we won't be in a position to draft Stafford. It's not good or bad, it is what it is.

With that being said, a genetic freak like Rak daddy would go a long way towards fixing the ills of this defense. He's not as long as Michael Johnson, but he's fast, explosive, and incredibly strong. Plus, he's taken boxing lessons, so Krumrie will love him with his ****tard slap-fight drill.

There could be worse selections in the 3-7 range where we will most likely choose.

I doubt we get stafford with the possibility that Detroit AND St. Louis could be drafting in front of us and they have big needs at QB too. Thanks to Thiggy we are not nearly as desperate for a QB now as we were a few weeks ago IMO.

Sign me up.

Aight.

Hahahaha.

I'm more than happy with getting a guy like Orakpo.

I still would much rather trade down and get Maualuga or Laurinitis PLUS extra draft picks. If we trade low enough, we could maybe get a high 2nd round pick and maybe another extra pick on the side. With that extra second round pick, we can start gunning for some terrific linemen, like Duke Robinson or Alex Mack.

We have 3 enormous needs:

Pass rushing LDE.
Stud MLB
Completely new right side of the line

Since we can't draft a RT or RG that high, it's down to MLB or LDE.

Hopefully this Orakpo is all that. I know little to nothing about him.

Please inform use that know little about him. No not all homervison please.

What was Orakpo's injury status...I know he had been a little banged up recently but I haven't kept up with the latest.

**** Laurinitis. I want nothing to do with that pile-jumper in the first round.

He is a game changer, a difference maker and someone you have to account for (at least at the college level). He is big, strong and fast. Considered by some to be THE best athlete in college football.

Is he a Ghostlon or Vernon Davis? Or is he a Dwight Freeney with how he can change games?

I watched some Youtube clips, and I'm impressed.

That is yet to be seen I guess. Right now he is MY personal choice for round 1.

Laurinitis is a hell of a player and I have a feeling Herm will fall in love with the guy. He is a high motor player, has terrific speed, is very good in coverage, and is extremely football smart. Like any other MLB, he sometimes struggles when his DTs get manhandled or beat. I don't know if Maualuga is a better prospect, but you couldn't go wrong with either of those guys.

I think the thing about Gholston and Davis is that most of the ooh'ing and awe'ing was about how freakish they were in athleticism, that scouts were willing to look past the negatives.

Gholston and Davis both have questionable work ethics and attitudes toward the game, and both had major flaws in their scouting report that scouts hoped would be overcome. I don't know much about Orakpo, but I agree that the evluation should involve a lot more than just physical talent.

I'd say he's more of a Freeny type, but stronger, so he wouldn't rely solely on his speed, and should probably be a better run defender.

That's an easy one.

There's no question that Orakpo has a motor.

The guy brings it every snap.

Orakpo is 6'4", 260 lbs, runs in the 4.6'es. He benches over 500 pounds, squats somewhere over 600, and he has produced at an insane level in a BCS conference. He whipped Loadholt's ass a couple of times in the OU game, and just flat embarrassed Missouri's line.

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/tex/gra..._camp_1280.jpg

Exactly the player we need.

He's not as physically imposing as Gholston, but is as strong, and has been very productive, just like VG was at OSU.

FWIW, the Jets aren't really using Gholston at all right now, which makes no ****ing sense, but their coaches are idiots, so what do you expect?

Hamas really has a hard-on for athletic DEs. Manny Lawson, Vernon Gholston, and now Brian Orakpo.

He is exactly what we need though. And hopefully he doesn't disappoint like Gholston and Lawson.

Gholston sucks right now, he hasn't earned playing time. There is no way he should get playing time instead Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace.

When did I ever pimp Manny Lawson?

How can Gholston be a disappointment 8 games into his rookie year?

FYP

Was I wrong about Lawson? I thought you were one of the people here who wanted him.

I'm not calling Gholston a bust, but he can't even earn playing time. Jets fans aren't exactly pleased with him right now.

Bryan Thomas is a mediocre OLB with no upside who is nearly 30 years old?

Has he ever even had more than 9 sacks?

well, if we can't get stafford then yes DE is a top priority...

i have no idea which one is best though...i loved selvie when I watched him, but i don't know if he is big enough...

Good to hear. My reservation is his size and whether he'd be a liability against the run or if he'd be better off in a 3-4. But I think you could do some real interesting things with your defensive packages, if you rotate McBride, Hali, and Orakpo.

He was basically a bust at DE, but he's been solid at OLB in the 3-4. He's better than Gholston is right now.

I was absolutely not pimping Lawson. I don't even know if I've mentioned him in more than five posts in this entire time I've been on the site.

You can't blame Gholston for the fact that their team was a year into a rebuild and then decided to sell out to win now, signing a bunch of aging and past their prime veterans, and giving the young guys no time to develop.

Gholston was not going to come in and have 15 sacks his first year, but if he is given time, he can be that kind of guy, especially in a system where he attacks, attacks, and attacks.

Selvie: :Orakpo

Hali: : Mario Williams

I like Michael Johnson a lot, but I think based simply on production, that Orakpo is the guy.

But you can't go wrong with either.

They list him at 260. What do you think he really weighs? Do you think he can put on a little weight to get up to a legitimate 270 and keep his speed?

Orakpo has jumped up high bc of his production wait till the combine when he puts some of the lifts up.

That literally means nothing. He's a 29 year old player. He should be better than a rookie who played "Leo" in college and is in his first year in a new position where he isn't getting any PT. The Jets are idiots for sitting a talent like Gholston while they try to win 9 games and get piss pounded in the first round

You are correct.

That's true enough. I was merely commenting on his production so far, a top 10 pick not being able to get on the field. I don't this its necessarily indicative of his future.

that's a language i understand

If a guy is that strong, it doesn't matter if he weighs 260, 240, or 380. He already has world class facilities at UT. There really isn't a difference in the strength and conditioning programs you get at major DI schools and the Pros. That should be more of a concern if he were coming from a mid-major or a DII school.

How many high draft picks and FA dollars will we need to spend on the defense for it to be decent?

I'm not making this comment to criticize Orakpo--I'm just sayin...

It's sad we're commenting upon the huge need we have at DE, which is accurate, when we're starting a recent first and second rounder at both ends.

Mangini has to win games to keep his job. They traded for Favre an signed a bunch of veteran free agents. The Jets are trying to win a Superbowl this year. I don't think they have a chance in hell of doing it, but if you want to win games you aren't going to play a raw rookie who doesn't know how to play OLB.

Not being able to get on the field doesn't mean he is incapable of getting on the field, though. The Jets were reeruned making those moves in the offseason. Faneca, Pace, Favre, et. al. In three years, what is a 32 year old Calvin Pace going to give you, as opposed to a 26 year old Vernon Gholston who has 48 NFL games under his belt?

They are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Neither one of those guys can play RDE, and they weren't drafted to do so.

I like this comparison.

Not with Turk. He was a tweener who was supposed to be able to supply some pass rush. He was more than capable of playing all positions on the line, according to Herm, when the selection was made.

On a side note, spending a round-one pick on a LDE doesn't seem like sound business to me. Are you sure that Hali was tabbed as this coming out?

Why LDE? Why not a RDE?

I know. The management is stupid, and horribly shortsighted. The same thing is going to bite the Dolphins in the ass when their fans realized they sold out for a team whose ceiling is 9-7.

as many as it takes

Unless you are Reggie White, 290 pound guys just don't play RDE in this league.

The most successful guys who are close are Peppers and Williams, who are 6'6"-6'7" and weigh 280.

That's a lot different from 6'2" 280, like McBride. He's just not quick enough to play RDE.

That's fine, but it should ensure Carl's fate. Couple this with the Larry contract, and the outcome has to be obvious.

In the NFL, the 320 lb LT across from you is going to be plenty strong too. The big guy will plow the little guy in the run game. I'm not saying don't draft him, but to just say size doesn't matter is wrong. What 260 lb RDE is strong against the run? That's not the primary role that the RDE plays but you want someone that can hold their own.

I'm just relating what I was remembering about the selection. He was identified as a pass rusher, not simply a run stuffer.

A 260 pound guy who uses leverage well and can bench and squat more than said 320 lb. LT will whip his ass at the point of attack. Besides, Cover 2 DE's aren't run stuffers. With that being said, Orakpo plays the run as well as you could hope for. He's not Dwight Freeney.

Orakpo's 500 lb. bench is great, very impressive by all accounts, but Brian Waters, for example, puts up over 600 lbs.

Bottom line, Orakpo's not going to "out-strength" a lot of players.

Orakpo is 6-4" and a small 260. Hence my question about is size. Not saying we shouldn't draft him.

I love Orakpo's production and physical tools, and I agree he's probably the next best target if Stafford is gone. However, I can't get over the fact that Texas has such a huge bust rate for pro players, and I wish Orakpo was a bit longer. 6'3" isn't ideal for a DE you're using a top five pick on.

Brian Waters is perhaps the strongest guy in the NFL, and he's also playing guard. He's going to be taking on DTs, not RDE's in the run game. It also helps that Waters has short arms, FWIW.

Look at it this way:

Gholston put up as much weight as Jake Long at the combine last year. Long is about as strong of a tackle as you'll find, but in a bullrush situation, he's going to have his hands full with either Gholston or Orakpo.

John Abraham is a small 260.
Jared Allen is a small 260.

Brian Orakpo is not a small 260.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...orakpo_400.jpg

<object width="440" height="361"><param name="movie" value="http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/player.swf?mediaId=3650227"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><embed src="http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/player.swf?mediaId=3650227" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="361" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object>

What did the Dolphins sell out? They signed a lot of free agents but none of them got huge deals. Parcells knows what he's doing and that team is on the way up. Long, Langford, Merling, D. Thomas are all good young players and that team is on the rise and will be very good in the years ahead.

You really should watch that video if you question his strength.

It was a typo.

Good god he is a beast

Bill Parcells is a mediocre evaluator of talent. Look at his draft record.

He gave Jason Ferguson a five year deal for 21.5 mil, and he's 34 f'ing years old.

That contract was signed by Ferguson in 2005. The Dolphins traded for Ferguson and inherited that contract. They can cut him at any time for zero cost since the bonuses are on Dallas' books.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...len&id=2003511

Parcells has had some bad picks, but he's certainly won everywhere. The Dolphins are well coached, have good young talent (Langford and Merling are playing great), and are definitely on the way up.

Parcells gave Ferguson that contract when he was in Dallas.

What about his wingspan? If he's going to be an NFL RDE, it's important to have a long wingspan. Those are things Allen and Freeney have that Hali does not.

I don't remember him winning anything that amounted to shit in either New York or Dallas.

QFT

How about the difference between the pic when he first arrived to the freak he is now? Methinks he's spent a day or two in the weight room. A dominant pass rusher can make all the difference....

He was very close to going to the Super Bowl with the Jets in 1998. That amounted to something.

Excellent point.

The main problem is with the drafting. Carl & Herm have thus far failed. Shocking I know. :rolleyes:

This is the biggest indictment of Herm Edwards.

He's a defensive guy and yet we're spending 2nd rounders on guys like Pollard & McBride who we're now talking about shouldn't be or are not cutting it in the starting lineup.

If something there doesn't change, we'll just draft another Defensive player who we'll talk about replacing in 3 years at this rate.

You know the old saying about horse shoes and hand grenades.

It's amazing how mediocrity is such a high level of achievement to KC fans.

Going to the AFC championship game is not nothing and its not mediocrity. Parcells didn't win a championship with the Jets or Cowboys, but he did build up those teams and make them legitimate contenders. People talk about Parcell's ability to build teams because that is what did in NJ and Dallas. If you want to criticize Parcells for not winning a Superbowl without Belichick that's one thing, but you can't really say he accomplished nothing.

So since he ALMOST won a SB with the Jets, that counts for something?

No wonder you love Herm.

We dont need no stinking DE - we need to take Oher in the first, Herman Johnson in the second and Loadholt in the third. Build that OL baby.

You would have fired Belichick in Cleveland, Dungy in Tampa, and Coughlin in Jacksonville. They were proven failures, right? No need to try and look at what coaches actually had on their team and what they did with them. Parcells took over a 1-15 team in 1997 and had them nearly in the Super Bowl 2 years later - but who cares, counts for nothing!

Well, firing Dungy in Tampa and hiring Gruden in his place was actually the right move.

You obviously have your goals on almost winning a title.

I set my sights on WINNING one.

They don't give out Lombardi trophies for ALMOST winning one.

I respect Rich Gosselin of the Dallas Morning News. He lays out prototypical measurements by position in the article link below.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...n.3d58630.html

He believes the prototype for DE is:
Height=6'4"
Weight=270
Speed=4.6
Key trait is speed on the weak side and strength on the strong side.

Orakpo's measurements are:
6'4"
260
4.63 (unofficial)
Combine will tell, but it seems Orakpo has ample speed and strength.

I've seen probably 4-5 Longhorn games this year and my only knock on him is he got caught inside on a few running plays (2 of which were in the TX Tech loss).

I do like the fact that he comes from a long line of Longhorn D linemen lineage. In fact, Big 12 in general has put out some great D linemen.