Per CBS Sportsline:
 

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/NFL_SC-RUMOR


A source told the Palm Beach Post that the Dolphins are closing in a deal that would ship Patrick Surtain to either Minnesota, Seattle or Kansas City.

There's no way he's going to Minnesota. :p

Seattle's some tough competition though, especially since Alexander's been thrown in the mix.

Minn would take Smoot and Surtain? I remember having a dream like that once....

Minnesota already has Williams and Winfield to go along with Smoot. They wouldn't trade for Surtain. They'd be stupid to.

Yeah - Minny would play a permanent nickel.

Any team with interest is stiff competition for the inferior skills of Peterson.

Maybe Red wants to use up all of Minn's cap space, but also send one final big **** you to the Minnesota fans.

they can make up the money by scalping Super Bowl ticket....

If the trade is for a 2nd round pick, I hope he goes to Minn. or Sea. We'll sign Law instead. If the trade is for a reasonable combination of lower round picks, then I hope we get him. We can't lose our 2nd round pick.

Who are you planning on drafting with our 2nd round pick?

Nice

And if we don't get Law? Will you be satisfied with Dyson or Herndon? Signing Law is anything but a gimme.

Samari Rolle

Yea lets wait to waste it in the draft. I can't wait to draft a guy in the second that should go in the seventh. Whats Surtain ever done but prove himself?












?

This is the part where it is required that a fan step in and remind you that our GM, scouts and front office are horrible at drafting players so losing the draft pick is completely irrelevant. :)

A 2nd round pick for a pro bowl CB seems like a no brainer to me for any team. To me trading a pick for a player is the same as drafting a player with that pick. The pick is worth 1 player and you get one player either way. The financial cost may be different but to me that's the only difference.

PhilFree :arrow:

I think a lot of the explanations our FO is giving this year are really just covers for their cheapness.

so true

or lack of capspace?

or maybe we're seeing what hartwell will say before we pull the trigger on a cb?

A lack of capspace, but also a lack of desire to pay large signing bonuses.

The Palm Beach Post report Sportsline referenced was written before Smoot signed with the Vikings. They still have the money to sign Surtain, but it'd make no sense to pay that much for Smoot to be a nickel corner.

But when you can add other quality players at that position for similar money through free agency without losing a draft pick, that is obviously the most logical way to go... why give up an opportunity to at least try and get a starting player in the 2nd round. If you draft a good player you can find a starter, say at OLB, at a much cheaper price than you would in FA. Now saying that and doing that are two different things obviously. On the other hand, I can't imagine if Carl drafted a CB or OLB in the 2nd round that he wouldn't be any worse than what we already have....

The problem is you have to know when to strike. If the FO mistimes what they plan we could end up with nothing. If the deal is good you jump on it. You don't sit on your hands hoping a better deal reveals itself.

As popular as that train of thought is around here I don't buy into it. I really don't think the Chiefs spend their time thinking up excuses in an attempt to dupe their fans. As far as cheap goes I don't think that's the right word but IMO the player salaries are out of control.


PhilFree :arrow:

The whole spinal injury fiasco is still under my skin.

Ill agree.

Ideally you'd want to maximize your personel acquisitions but sometimes it don't work out. If we don't trade for Surtain and Laws foot don't heal then where are we?

PhilFree :arrow:

These are all valid points, I didn't say it couldn't backfire... if our doctors think he'll be alright I'm willing to take the chance on Law... in my ideal world we'd sign somebody like Law, sign Herndon, and use that #2 pick with others to move up and get Derrick Johnson for an OLB position, and at least look 10 times better on paper for next year.

He admitted to having the condition. The same type of condition that Miceal Irvin retired from after he discovered he had it. IMO Rolle is gambling with his health/life by playing with his condition and more so then your average NFL player.


PhilFree :arrow:

I read where CP said he would like to have Surtain and that Surtain wants to be a chief, but they had to agree on a contract that made sense.....:rolleyes: meaning he probably wants too much money. The man wants to leave the dolphins for sure.

It is pretty unimportant to get into this, but I believe the article on the Ravens had agreed on a deal with Rolle by Saturday night. I also think that when Carl or the FO in general learned this they released the info about the injury to cover their asses. I don't buy what Carl, the Chiefs Organization, and the KC media has been saying.

If Laws foot checks out while in KC and our doctors say that it's healling just fine then great but we still won't know anything till he starts trying to run and cut. I don't know that we can afford to wait for that day to make a decision.


PhilFree :arrow:

Well then what the hell are we waiting on? Negotiate a contract and make the deal. I just have a bad feeling that CP is going to dick around by saving a couple thousand dollars and we are going to get stuck out in the cold with Herndon or nobody.

I don't know but Rolle does admit to having the condition so it is real.


PhilFree :arrow:

If CP is squawking about what Surtain wants, wait 'til Law shows up.

It doesn't matter if it is real if the Chiefs didn't seem to have a serious problem with it until after they found out Rolle was as good as gone. Baltimore didn't seem to have a problem with it.

:thumb:

It also was interesting that the doctors discovered it while Rolle did not disclose it prior to the physical.

Your living in the 60's...........couple thousand dollars. :rolleyes:

Yes it is and that being the case if I were gonna write that check I might do a litttle more investigation before doing so.


PhilFree :arrow:

Thanks, I was being sarcastic and trying to imply that Carl is a nickel and dimer....

Hello, vague story.

I have a feeling Carl is going to dick around with this also and Surtain ends up in Indy for edge James.

Except that one of the parties wasnt interested in this deal.

This is exactly why we should have tagged Blaylock. He would have made a great pot-sweetener in a deal like this. Instead, we got nothing. :shake:

That would of messed up our cap in a big way. I don't think that would have been feasible.


PhilFree :arrow:

I think you completely underestimate the evil that is embodied in Carl Peterson.

Well, it doesn't matter anyway. I can't imagine he would have been scheduled to make that much, though.

Of course, I don't follow these things since all the speculation drives me insane. It always just seemed to me that it would have been nice to deal him to a RB-strapped team for some defensive talent. Oh well.

ROFL I'm pretty sure that his goal from the start was to woo Chiefs fans under the ether so he could steal their collective souls.


PhilFree :arrow:

And we all know how long a trip that would be...

If he's franchised tagged he's gonna cost the avg of the top 5 RBs in the league against the cap. If transition tagged he counts the avg of the top ten I think and we get a chance to match. I hate losing Blaylock but sometime things just can't be avoided.


PhilFree :arrow:

:moon:

So was I.........:D

ROFL

Let's see...a 2nd rounder out of college who has never played in the NFL or trade that pick for a Top-Notch CB in Patrick Surtain...the Chiefs would be stupid not to trade for Surtain. It's really not that hard. :shake:

Maybe these guys know.

Nobody was going to pay that penalty for Blaylock. We would have got less than nothing, we'd have gotten sacked with his big cap number.

I don't know why everybody is so worried about giving up a 2nd-round pick.

The Patriots gave up a 3rd to get Duane Starks.

I'll have you know there is another Joe Valerio out there just waiting to be taken with that pick.

I don't either. Surtain=our 2nd round pick so we all we gotta do is address the other roster spot with a FA. Sign Polley if it's LB we're looking for in round 2. It's just a numbers game IMO. If the plan is to have acquired five quality players by the end of our 2nd pick in the draft it shouldn't matter if they came via free agency, trade or draft pick as long as we acquire them.


PhilFree :arrow:

Egg-zackly.

If the Chiefs get Surtain and Hartwell I'd like to see them draft Donte Nicholson to play free safety.

Unless you are dreaming, why mention Hartwell? Kingless already said he will not go after him.

Do I want Hartwell ... you bet I do but it will not happen. Seems to me we ought to get both Hartwell and Law/Surtain. (Yes, I think it is possible ... creative cap management and cut a couple of players.) That would really upgrade out D. One of our pretending to be C.B.'s could revert back to S. and fill our need at S. Warfield & Law/Surtain covering the W.R. ... with Bell, Hartwell, and Fugi coming after the QB will give our O many more opportunities.

I'm okay with trading our 2nd. for Surtain. Unless Kingless gets extremely lucky (hasn't happened too often in the past) whoever he picks will not start for at least 5 years. Surtain will be a great 2nd. round pick.

Got a question for you guys ... does anyone know of a site (by someone that is a least a little of an experts) ... that rank CB's in the NFL? Where does Surtain rate compared to Rolle, Law, Smoot, etc. Someone was nice enough to post the ranking of F.A.'s ... but Surtain was not on the list.

If Surtain is considered equal to are a little below Law in talent ... then pull the trigger on the trade because we don't know if/when Law recovers. I do like Law's leadership skills and believe that may be his best qualities for us. Would love for Kingless to get both Surtain and Law but in reality I know Kingless wouldn't do that even if both were for the minimum salary ... which we all know the player will not go for.

But, my big question is whether Kingless will get either one? If he doesn't get us an impact C.B. we can go ahead and start a discussion about next years draft and the new coaching staff.

Frankly, Polley was one of the few guys on the Lambs defense who impressed me while hoping they lost each week...

I totally agree, it's just easier to acquire that many guys if a couple of them are draft picks.... they don't make nearly as much money.

What Carl said was that we wouldn't continue to negotiate with Hartwell. Not that we wouldn't sign him.

IIRC .... the money difference is because the team must have enough money put away to sign the draft picks??? Therefore, if we trade for Surtain then we don't need money put away for our 2nd. pick and that would give us more under the cap.

If the Chiefs sign Hartwell, we will have to wait to sign Law. We will need to make some June cuts to make cap room.

Not necessarily. I think we might have (slightly) more cap room than's been reported. We cleared an assload cutting Holliday. Like 6 million.

Why is there still hope we sign Ed Hartwell? Talk about a pipe dream.

It's on to cornerback.


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In that case can you imagine Hartwell, Bell and Law in free agency? We would have a ton of flexibility in the draft.

Would still want another CB (likely in the 1st or 2nd round) and possibly a safety (possibly a day two pick). I would want a DE to replace Hicks but I doubt that happens so that would allow us to look at offensive players (WR, Oline) on day one.

Supposedly Hartwell has a standing offer.

It depends on what their asking prices are. We could probably work the contracts so they'd fit now, but we'd have to watch for problems down the road.

There's almost always a way to work the cap...

WPI and Scout.com reported that we still have a standing offer to him and that if he doesn't take it soon we will withdraw it. This seems to match up with what Carl said in his Q&A.

Go skim Phobia's "Calling my shot" thread. He lays out some pretty good reasons why Hartwell might sign with us.

That would be extremely minimal "savings" under the cap. Draft picks don't make that much. Looking over some of the contracts from last year, our 2nd round pick would probably be looking roughly in the 5 year, $3.5 million contract - $1.5 million signing bonus range. We'd probably be talking around $600,000 of cap space for this next year. That's what makes the draft so important, if you can do it well you can add a quality player for hardly anything...

Maybe Carl was tweaking the tension a bit with his statement but there seems to be a few here dismissing the Cardinals (Dennis Green). He had an honest meeting with Hartwell. I'd like to know how much was on the table in both cases...


--->

Cardinals were not willing to offer a very big signing bonus. Back when we made an offer to him the speculation was that it included an 8 or 9 million dollar signing bonus. I don't know if that was ever verified.

IF WPI and scout.com are accurate I think we can be pretty confident that at least the Chiefs FO believe the best offer he has gotten so far is from us or they would not have told him to take it or leave it.

If we waste any cap room on Ty Law at this point, I'm gonna be pissed.

Get Hartwell. Get Surtain. Sign Law in JUNE, when we have the ability to cut some guys to clear cap space. Sign Law in JUNE, when his asking price has come down to Earth.

I would agree with the Law in JUNE part of your take with one caveat, ONLY IF 100% Healthy and ready to play day one.