ARGH! OK, I need opinions please...
 

My wife works for an orthodontist. As with many dental practices, it is mainly a female environment. In this case, between his 2 offices, the only 2 guys who work there are himself and the other orthodontist he employs.

Most of the women in this office are single and frankly, most of them are downright b*tches.

So the doctor (who is LDS) always like to treat his women to something big at the end of the year. Last year, it was take them all to Celine Dion and a REALLY expensive dinner and then give them each about $1000 that they had to spend on themselves at the Forum at Ceasars.

Sounds great...

This year, I find out that he wants to take all of them to New York for a week, all expenses and shows paid.

Wow, sounds like a nice guy...

Wait for it...

Spouses are not allowed.

This is not a selfish why cant I go thing with me. But my wife and I have 2 very youung boys, 1 & 3 years old. I work my ass off running my family business. She and I have wanted to go to New York together for quite a while. Also, lets keep in mind that she does not get along with most of the women in her office.

Not to mention that in my opinion, any big thing like that or employee party should always be spouses invited (since I am an employer myself).

So is it bad of me to be opposed to her going? Am I wrong in thinking, OK, my wife goes to New York without me, somewhere we have wanted to go together, and I have to work my ass off at work, spend a total of 2 hours per day for a week trekking my 2 boys all over town for babysitting, not to mention then having to be the sole provider for them every waking moment during that time while she is having a blast, Without her husband...

serious opinions needed....

I seriously could bunch the shit out of my walls right now.

My first thought is this - she should have enough respect for you and awareness of her responsibilities to turn it down on her own.

Seconded.

Thats my feeling (as you could tell) but I want some female perspective here as well.

My opinion is that it really isn't appropriate for him to take them to NY without the spouses. She shouldn't go.

Also, if it was me - I wouldn't take off for New York for a week without my wife (for work I've had to do it, but not for vacation). That would be shitty.

you can bunch shit out of walls?

i bet there'd be a great market for that...

if you were a fertilizer salesman...

I think the boss should allow the spouses to go, but at their own expense. Do you have any relatives or someone you trust to watch the kids for a week?

fwiw, i'd tell her to go...

then she can show you around when you go together...

a free trip to new york complete with broadway shows?

you should let her go if she wants to...

I think the boss should give her a cash equivalent for not going. That way, while she obviously has this week off, the whole family can go someplace nice.

That would NOT be New York at the end of year, IMO. Try someplace warm.

that sounds like a really reasonable solution...

is the orthodontist smart enough to do this?

Awkward. Very awkward.


Dentist - wants to treat employees and build a positive culture that is lacking right now. It's not possible when everyone just hangs out with their spouse.

You - Saddled with responsibility while your wife takes a free vacation to a place you'd like to go.

Your wife - Gets a nice trip, but with people she doesn't like and guilt for leaving you.


I'm going to go against the grain here. The dentist is doing this not just to be a nice guy, but to build camaraderie. He's not snubbing you, but just recognizes that a spousal presence will work against his goals. I'm going to go against the crowd and say that you've got an obligation to watch the ranch while your wife goes, and that she should go and have a good time and get to know her coworkers better. It's more of an off-site retreat than a vacation.

I can understand how you feel, but what about it really bothers you? you can't go, or she's going to NY without you, or the kids?

And why?

On a lighter note, use the time to bond with your boys, at least one of you will be in good company.

If she decides to give it up out of repsect for your feelings, you better go the xtra mile that week.

good luck

I understand how you feel, but I think you should let her go or let her make the decision not to go without any pressure from you. Don't look at it as a betrayal or an imposition on you (even though it is an imposition). Look at it as the opportunity to give her a great gift without having to pay cash for it. If she really doesn't enjoy the company of the other women in the office, maybe she'll decide not to go on her own. If she wants to go and you insist that she turn it down, your building up a lot of resentment for the sake of getting out of a few days worth of inconvenient babysitting.

I'm assuming that there is no concern over hanky panky with the doc here. It does seem like a weird "bonus" though. Maybe he thinks this kind of get-away-together time is good for teambuilding I guess.

OK, a little more background on it ...

This is not a comeroderie building trip... if it were the previous trips of similar types would have worked throughout the history of his office.

As for him, he isnt the one making the choice. He asked the women, most of which are single, if spouses should be allowed. They all automatically say No overruling the married women (all 3 of them).

What bothers me is that I personally would never do a week of something so stellar if the stipulation is that my wife has to stay home and take care of EVERYTHING when as a general rule, we split overall the home down the middle as far as taking care of our responsibilities as parents.

I think its wrong. Its bad enough that she has to go out of town for work for seminars that are a complete repeat time after time.

It would be another thing if the doctor actually had a spine about anything and it would be another thing if my wife would stand up and say something in her own defense instead of also being pushed around by her b*tch coworkers.

I can just see the look on my hubby's face if I told him the boss was taking me to new york for a week and paying for everything...without spouses going...ROFL


You build an awesome work enviroment by including the spouses and children...

[QUOTE=Vegas_Dave]

What bothers me is that I personally would never do a week of something so stellar if the stipulation is that my wife has to stay home and take care of EVERYTHING when as a general rule, we split overall the home down the middle as far as taking care of our responsibilities as parents.
QUOTE]

You can do it...someday you might HAVE to.

Are you a little nervous about being without her while taking care of the kids? I'd say that's pretty normal, we as men like to put abuttload of responsibility on our wives , especially when it comes to toddlers...

I am not a fan of separate vacations. The point of going out with someone is to go out with that person when you are able.

It would also be different if she wanted to go somewhere you were not interested in going, but this is somewhere you would like to go.

P.S. I would cosider the parental responsibilities and the wife's at-work relations as mostly irrelevant to the discussion.

Hmmm? I just put my wife and kids on a plane today to go visit her mother in BARBADOS. There was no way in hell I was going to spend 8 days with her mother in BARBADOS in fricken JULY. She just called and told me it was VERY HOT........errrr no chit. :) I don't know what to tell you Dave. All I know is I am going to eat a lot of steaks and pull down a lot of beer in the next 8 days. :p

I remember when my ex-wife used to go out of town for work related things alone. Fond memories.

First off...
The orthodontis must be single or gay.

Secondly...
My wife wouldn't be going ANYWHERE with a bunch of single people as I wouldn't myself.

Thirdly...
That has to be one of the dumbest propositions by an employer if there's one person in the group that's married (especially with kids).

forthly...
Wouldn't it buiild more of a bonding environment if everyone got to know each other on a person level. For instance, if he took everyone to NY and had an itenerary set up for you guys then you could join in the festivities. She's half a person without you there. Besides doesn't sound like the boss is very fond or thoughtful of your wife.

Fifth and last but not least as a matter of factly...
Why in the hell is this even debatable? You wife doesn't have sense to know that she shouldn't go there without you, then something's just not right. I'm thinking you have more problems than just a NY trip with the "singles group" and her boss.

~Hope it all works out.

really? what happened?

She met this dude named Steve who made her poo in his mouth. I found the pictures. Dude looked just like Elvis.

If it were all legit...and he wasn't looking to Lay some pipe.....Spouses would be allowed to attend...and buy their own Shows.

Brideowanian would NOT be attending that trip.

The Cloud of dust you see pluming, and the Shaking thud you feel is my Foot Stomping[/foot down] Hell No.


If he was doing it legit, to be nice....He'd give her a cash bonus if she doesn't go.


If you allow it to happen....and no way would I....huh uh...and she goes...I vote you send the kids to Grandma's for that week, and host A Boars' week in Lost Wages for The Planet's finest.

I'll Re-Itterate....NO WAY, does a Strait man fund this trip, for this many single women without alterior intentions.

wow, no wonder she left you.

What I would do, what I would do.


Hire a bunch of hot ass big tittie chicks to work for me and do the same thing.

let her go, stock this one up for future arguments. Fight fire with fire

ask your wife to explain the entire situation to you one more time. have a mic and recorder at the ready. it will come in handy for your divorce settlement.

It is not appropriate for her to go without you.

Damn dude... Steve sounds pretty F'ed up in the head.

Is he married? Is his wife going? How about the other orthodontist he employs? That would be a double standard right there. Even without considering that, I think he could have done something very nice closer to home and invited the spouses for the price he will be paying for everyone to go to NY with or without spouses. I don't think she should go. She should have consideration for you. Not because of what you have to do while she's gone. You're a dad and a business owner. You chose that, so the responsibilities are there. It's the fact that you two have been wanting to go together. If I had a husband, and I was in her shoes, I would not go. I would, however, simply ask that he give me, in cash, whatever amount it would have cost for me to go. You two could take your own vacation on that.

Both of the male doctors Are Married with kids, and their entire families are both going.

The biggest problem for me is that in the reverse situation, I would not have even considered going because I would not WANT to go without her.

Damn me though for always wanting to make my wife happy. I cannot stand the guilt now if she doesnt "get to go".

I was originally thinking fine, she wants to make that her vacation, then I will take my remaining week for this year that same time so that I do not have to worry about babysitting and driving the kids all across creation...

but wait... I run a retail business and that time of year (beginning of December) I am frakin swamped!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Don't just say No....say Hell No.

No guilt....don't let her pull that card....IMO her boss is in the wrong for not allowing spouses on a non-work trip(recreation) and She is wrong for considering going.

Don't let her make you to be the biatch here........Lay down the Law.

Never seen a better place on the planet for:

Spare the Rod, Spoil the Broad.

Sounds like the orthodontist wants to do some "drilling" outside the office.

dude, that is just too weird. Is the employer totally eccentric? If not, then something's up.

My Red flag is up big time....

There is NO WAY, that guy isn't trying for some sammich action.

When you see her boss....will he look you square in the eye and have a reasonably normal conversation?

I think if she goes, you should put some glowgerm on her unmentionables, and meet them at the airport, with a black light.

My thoughts exactly.

All expenses paid includes a sitter/nanny for the kids, right?

I would have to say that she shouldn't... and I know that if my wife and I were in a situation like that, she would choose not to go, and then we'd go do the same things together anyway.

So....

for all of you saying that Vegas Dave should say no, let's reverse the situation.


Your boss, or a key supplier for you self-employed folks, is female. Almost all of your coworkers are male. The boss tells everyone that, as an end-of-year reward, she wants to take all of you camping and fishing for a week at Lake Powell, or Alaska, or some other cool place. No spouses allowed.

You guys would all turn that down?

What does my boss look like?

Might as well get a case of Condoms and a tube of superlube
 

It sounds to me like SHE is either Selfish or up to something too.

She has responsibilites at home, and the fact you say this is a trip you BOTH have talked about....no reasonable, thoughtfull wife/husband would go without the other.

"Hey Brideowanian, I'm off to the Bahamas with Jenny Gump for a work outting..no work, but only ladies from Work and I are going"

Maybe you should tell her that all your Friends who work down at Hooters and Cheetahs are going to be coming over for a slumber party while she's gone.


"Oh mah gawd vegas Dave...I was just watching the new Girls gone wild, NYC video and I think I saw...................."

maybe its HER that wants to travel with those young single women to try to score them without the family?

A lot of advice given here.....you got to sort out what works and what doesn't among all those opinions.

On the other hand, you sound more whinney about having to be Mr. Mom .......welcome to the life of most woment in America who have to shuttle kids here there everywhere and do it alone while the hubby is on a business trip.

Your concern is just as valid without the woe is me I have to take care of the children piece of it.

If it were me, I'd have a problem with the situation too. A vacation with spouses not allowed just doesn't sound right to me. Even with the Dentists being married with kids, are they HAPPILY married with kids? Also, what types of activities will the single ladies be involved in and what will they be trying to convince the married ladies to join in with?

It's a tough spot because if you put your foot down and tell her you don't want her to go, it appears that you don't trust the wife. If you don't, you get to spend a week without her (sounds like it could be around the holidays too, but you never said a specific date) and you get to worry about her and also be uspet that a vacation you wanted to enjoy together at a later date will be different now as a result of this trip.

I think Fraz in his first post hit the nail on the head.

I guess I'm in the minority too. I would make it her decision and if she wants to go, then so be it. If trust is an issue, then your marriage isn't worth crap to begin with.

I agree. If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it!

My wife would not go if I was not invited, especially something that involved something on the opposite coast.

As for my opinion, I for one wouldnt be comfortable with my wife going either and would hope that would be enough to convince her it's not a good idea.

Good luck.

i'll read what everyone wrote after i post...

but i'd do everything in my power to let my spouse have such a wonderful trip. work.. babysitters... kids... sounds like a typical day in a lot of women's lives. i have every faith you could do it for a week.

I would turn it down first of all out of respect for my wife. I think the biggest thing I struggle with is that there isn't a choice. The proviso "No Spouses Allowed" is what gets me. Now, I would have no problem with, "If your spouses go, they pay their own way" - in that case I wouldn't even have a problem with "Hey, you go, I'll watch the kids here". It's that "No Spouses Allowed" stipulation that bothers me.

I was going to say the same thing, except I don't believe the gender of the boss has any bearing. You should be able to trust your wife to not fuck her boss on the trip or anywhere else for that matter. If she's an adulterous slut, it's time for a divorce anyway.

As someone who's been on several "man only" trips provided by business contacts, I see this from a different viewpoint. There's nothing wrong with spending time away from your spouse on occasion. In fact, I'd say it makes a marriage healthier.

It sounds to me like you're just pissed that you'll be saddled with all the kids/housework for a week. To me, that's a small price to pay to allow your wife to get what's possibly a once in a lifetime experience for her. If she wants to go, you need to man up, sacrifice a little, and give her what she wants. Then the next time you're buddies are planning that golf outing to the coast, she has no good reason to keep you from going.

Look up in the sky!! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's!!....

http://www.00ebooks.com/images/dr-phil-books.jpg

my god... i guess i have an interesting marriage going by the responses in this thread.

If it were for a conference, class, trade show et al....I'd agree with Dart.

Business is business, and pleasure is pleasure.

My job requires me to go overnight some, to conferences, meetings, classes et al.....without my wife.

I'd never consider traveling across the country, on a pleasure trip with my female boss where my family wasn't invited. A fishing trip with the boys from work is one thing..........a week being whined and dined is a 2nd honeymoon, not a business trip.

Its not about Trust, because I'd never cheat........Its about Responsibility and Respect. I completely trust and respect my wife........and She's allowed to choose to do whatever she wants to do. I guarantee Mine wouldn't choose to go on that trip.

Some Decisions would have consequences..some have benefits.

If she chooses not to go, I figure you owe her a weekend away.

Dartgod hit the nail on the head. The first issue is trust. If you trust her, then you should leave it up to her. She should recognize the child care situation and your work demands and try to work it out with you.

It seems unfair that he let the single women decide if spouses should go. Perhaps if all the married women asked if husbands could come if they pay their own airfare, etc., he'll let them.

What's the difference? How's a fishing trip different than broadway and shopping?

the Fact that the DOCTORS' wives and kids are going...but "spouses" aren't, basically means that DAVE can't go.

Screw that noise.....If THEIR spouses and kids are going.....it'd be a problem. The Boss might not fund Their trips....but shouldn't Exclude them.

Whats good for the Goose....

I would also point out that my wife would most likely turn it down. But if she wanted to go I wouldn't have a problem with it.

same here...

Is my wealthy, female boss, who said my family can't come along funding the entire trip and sharing the cabin?
Dave's wife will be taken to a store, given a grand and told "you can spend this here".

Will my wealthy, female boss, who is funding the fishing trip be swingin the Limo into the Lumber Yard and giving me $500 and saying "you can spend this, but only in the champaign room"?


I trust my wife completely, and I'm assuming that V-Dave trusts his..........My Radar is just going off and I smell a skunk.....a rich skunk.

I'd view things entirely differently if the proposition were "Everyone from work is going to NYC...we're allowed to bring our families, but we have to pay your way" and then I said "thanks, but I would rather pull out my toenails than go to a broadway show....have a good time, I'll watch the kids"

Let me get this right, you are upset because you can't go watch broadway shows for a week?

It wouldbe odd for a wife to go to NY without her husband, but I think it is odd for a mother and father to go on a weeks vacation without the kids, so I guess it would depend on your family's lifestyle.

I don't blame the boss at all for not wanted to bring spouses, because if he paid for your wife x's 2 then he would have to bother with paying for all the single girls to bring a guest also if he wanted to be fair. Does your wife care about going by herself? If so has she talked to her boss about not going? Maybe he will find something optional to give her in leiu of the travel expenses.

am i missing something here? it's going to be an older.. not 20something man... surrounded by a bunch of women going to fruity shows.

wow. sounds like a real manly romantic honeymoon type day.

hey! lol

To me, it doesn't sound as if the boss is up to no good if he's taking his wife and kids on the trip. It just sounds as though he would like the employees to bond a little and he obviously sees it as a nice gift.

I think this is how I would handle the situation.

I would calmly explain to my wife that it's a trip that I had hoped to take together and that the timing is really inconvenient, because of the business season. But, if you really would like to go, go.

I think it's a decision she has to make. If you pressure her into her decision, it'll backfire in the end.

If she decides not to go, it will have been her decision and you'll both feel better.

If she decides to go, don't automatically assume it's for ulterior motives (unless you have a reason to believe so), it's a really nice gift that most people would hate to give up. I would then try to find someone (friend, relative, church) to help you take care of the kids.

Hey Mer....

What drops a pair of Panties faster than a pair of new scissors?

A. A Million Dollars in His your bank account(or Iowanian's charm).

I'm presuming that the New York trip will not involve everyone staying in the same hotel room.


So you guys would seriously turn down a cool camping and fishing trip offered by your boss as a reward, just because your spouse couldn't come along? I'm quite surprised.

What's your true concern in that scenario? I don't understand why your spouses would expect you to deny yourself pleasure just because they don't get it. (Insert bad sex joke here.) I also don't understand why you would expect your spouses to do the same.

My wife got invited on a "girls only" vacation with some friends a while back, and my response was "Lucky you. Go have a blast." It never even occurred to me to not want her to go have fun.

Are you sure he is Morman? The guy sounds a little bit Jewish in this situation, not wanting to pay for the spouses, IMO.

i love your assholiness, but your jealousy would get in the way.

i need to know i can leave my boytoy alone with 15 naked 20 year olds and the worst thing that will happen is a little embarassment.

First off, you keep mentioning the gender of the boss as if it's a factor. Assuming that you trust your wife like you claim to, gender shouldn't matter.

Second, you seem to think the amount of money being thrown around is some kind of negative. Unless you think your wife can be bought, you should be thinking the more money he drops on her, the better.

The only difference between me on a fishing trip, and my wife on a Broadway/shopping trip is that I would love fishing but hate her trip, and she would feel just the opposite.

As far as I'm concerned, if her boss thinks he's going to get in her pants, he's not only going to get a drop kick in the junk, I'm also about to be the proud owner of a dental practice. Besides that, if his spouse is there, it seems pretty clear what his intentions are. And if he was planning on boning the help, I think he's more likely to target the dozen single women over the three married ones.

I'm not jealous. I trust my wife completely. I know she wouldn't go, on her own account out or respect under these conditions. Neither would I, rolls reversed.

In my marraige there is a simple rule that we try to follow........."would my husband/wife be pissed if they were a fly on the wall"? If the answer is no...you're fine. If the answer is yes....let Shakes and husker buy another round and scoot......I mean.....If the answer is yes, remove yourself from that situation...or don't put yourself in it to begin with.

Its just Respect.

I have no problem with my wife going on a trip with the girls or if men go. I have a real problem with the circumstances of this trip. I'd trust my wife if she went, but mine wouldn't do it.

JSP...I trust my wife as much as it sounds like you do yours. My wife has worked around alot of doctors, and I've heard enough stories to think I'm comfortable with my opinion for my house. If the trip was offered, I'd probably decline, and not care if she went........the "no spouses" when Spouses are clearly going is my problem. Personally, I'd rather NOT go on that trip, but I'd be a hell of alot more comfortable if it were at least an option.



There is just something fishy, somewhere in this limited amount of info story.....Maybe the Boss didn't say no spouses...I don't know.

Without reading through all the threads I can't believe your wife would consider it ok to even consider it.

She should simply tell her employer if spouses aren't invited (meaning you'd pay your own way), she isn't going.

The little Mrs just stepped into the office. I had her read this thread. She felt that that the circumstances weren't really appropriate. She said she could see a stipulation on whether kids went or not, and she thought that asking for spouses to pay their own way was fine, but to exclude spouses sounded wrong to her.

What's your opinion on business trips with the opposite sex, Iowanian? I would think that a trip with a group of 20 people, including the boss's spouse, would be the lowest-risk travel possible.

I've been on week-long business trips with women where we work together during the day and go out for dinner at night, meet early for breakfast, etc. That type of trip has far more potential for problems, in my opinion, even if it's "work" and not "pleasure."

I've been on three "team building" trips myself, without my spouse. It's actually pretty common in the corporate world today.

I've read about 30 posts in, so I haven't read them all... please forgive me if this has already been brought up. Has anyone suggested to the doctor that spouses and/or dates and/or families and/or other friends can come if they pay their way? If this isn't about commeraderie, then it shouldn't matter. Likely, the single women voted "no" because they didn't think it was fair that the married women got to have someone else with them and the doctor pay for it... now, the other people joining have to pay their own way, and the single people can bring someone, too.

:shrug:


If it was me... I'd let my wife go, because I think there would be a certain amount of resentment harbored about it. Now, I wouldn't be happy about it... and I would probably express that opinion. But the surest way to force resentment is to forbid her from going. If I'm ever forbidden from doing something, that's like daring me to do it and I'll end up doing it just to prove that I could.

My wife and some girlfriends went on a cruise once..."the girls" as in she and some friends. Great. My wife has gone on Business trips overnight. Fine. Some of the ladies from her work, may choose to go to Chicago for a shopping weekend, and she might choose to go....fine. If She chooses who she goes with for a leisure trip...great...I hope its during Bow season...

My example would be, that one of my close relatives gets a yearly trip somewhere as a bonus...Florida, Hawaii etc.......spouses ALWAYS invited.

I'm all for bonus' and personally wish I had more oportunity for them. I'm all for Team building exercises et al.

If asked to go along, i'd probably decline and say "go have a good time".....something about there not being that option just strikes me wrong on a "Leisure trip".

I've done about all I can do here. Its not about jealousy, its not about trust. Its about "Some shit just isn't right" and I can't explain that any further. You either "get it" the same way I do, or you don't I think.

in all honesty, you shouldn't take anyone's advice here. Nothing against it, but only you know the dynamics of you & your wife's relationship. Why not just tell her whats on your mind and honestly lay out your concerns versus your wanting to not deny her a great opportunity.

Everyone's situations are different and finding that happy middle for you two is starkly different from some other's middle

I guess I view a "girls only" trip as something other than a trip that my girl and I have talked about taking together. I also dont consider a "girls only" trip to be a vacation with people the wife doesn't even like just because the destination is cool. A "girls only" trip is my girl out with her friends, doing things that make their friendship stronger. My concern is that I want to share the good times with my woman, not read about them in a postcard.

Business trip? Work Related? Conference? Meeting? Paid? No problem.
Same trip to NYC for a trade show/conference/meeting and they stay an extra couple of days to shop...I've got no problem at all...Here's some money sweetness, have a good time.

I have traveled with members of the opposite sex and know I do nothing wrong....so does she. My wife has been to trainings, schools etc with men and women in the group....no problem.

i let my husband work in strip clubs, so maybe i'm the weird one

Does anyone know exactly why spouses aren't invited? And don't give me any teambuilding BS. They can team build during working hours in town somewhere.

I must admit that I don't see much difference between this and the original scenario, but if you do, that's your own call. That's why you and I aren't married, I guess, along with the fact that we're both heterosexual males.

Would you be willing to pay your way and go with her? I can understand him not wanting to pay for an entire family.