New US church leader says homosexuality no sin
 

New US church leader says homosexuality no sin

Mon Jun 19, 3:50 PM ET


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender.


Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.

Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.

"I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us," she said.

"Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender."

Jefferts Schori's election seemed certain to exacerbate splits within a Episcopal Church that is already deeply divided over homosexuality with several dioceses and parishes threatening to break away.

It could also widen divisions with other Anglican communities, including the Church of England, which do not allow women bishops. In the worldwide Anglican church women are bishops only in Canada, the United States and New Zealand.

Three years ago when the Church last met in convention, a majority of U.S. bishops backed the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.

The Robinson issue has been particularly criticized in Africa where the church has a growing membership and where homosexuality is often taboo.

Jefferts Schori, who was raised a Roman Catholic and graduated in marine biology with a doctorate specialization in squids and oysters, supported the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.

The 52-year-old bishop is married to Richard Schori, a retired theoretical mathematician. They have one daughter, Katharine Johanna, 24, a second lieutenant in the U.S. Air Force and a pilot like her mother.

Asked how she reconciled her position on homosexuality with specific passages in the Bible declaring sexual relations between men an abomination, Jefferts Schori said the Bible was written in a very different historical context by people asking different questions.

"The Bible has a great deal to teach us about how to live as human beings. The Bible does not have so much to teach us about what sorts of food to eat, what sorts of clothes to wear -- there are rules in the Bible about those that we don't observe today," she said.

"The Bible tells us about how to treat other human beings, and that's certainly the great message of Jesus -- to include the unincluded."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060619/...HBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

outa start a nice bruhaha on the right


http://www.serendipity.li/more/nuclear_explosion.jpg

Not sure if she read the whole book or not but she might want to re-read it because I believe the whole 10 comandments are not just suggestions. Just because a society doesn't observe certain rules doesn't make that society right. I know people will say they believe that the the bible is not soverign but to many it is and this is an abomination of that. (IMO) She might want to read that last book where God does judge people. Also she might want to be familiar with love the person but hate the sin.

:clap:

great, thanks for posting this...

Which one of the ten commandments covers homosexuality?

:thumb:

This is just my opinion, and I'm not even sure how well formed it is, but perhaps the best way to define sin is 'that which separates you from God.'
Therefore, homosexuality may or may not be 'sin.' If you accord yourself as a follower of Jesus and lover of the Lord, who happens to situate his family and obtain sexual release through a homosexual partner, the sexuality itself is no different than any other. If you allow your sexuality [homo or hetero, married or unmarried] to dominate over your striving for a relationship with God, it's sin.

I don't trust any woman that is in a leadership role at a church (church, not sunday school class or women's outreach ministries). There are also passages in the bible about that, too.

And the Episcopal Church wonders why all their members are leaving.

And why does her opinion matter more than someone else's?

Bunch of bullshit.

ROFL

Laughing at a person's beliefs?

What exactly are your beliefs? "I think I read somewhere in the bible that maybe women shouldn't be ministers"? :rolleyes:

She might want to read up on what happen to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

sexist









:moon:

I'm not sure, but I think it's in James where it talks about deacons and such being the husband of one wife. How is a woman a husband of one wife?

Who really gives a **** what this stupid box thinks?

She only represents a portion of the Episcopal church. Upon news of her election several US factions wrote to the Episcopalian boss in England asking to be placed under the leadership of another bishop.

Theirs is a house divided and I see now way, short of a wholesale splintering, for them to ever get it together and move forward.

"The swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven-footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you."

bet you would if she was pimping pitbulls.






ROFL ROFL

Probably gays. :shrug:

Oh yea I forgot about the ghey planet. Forgive me.

I don't know if it is a 'sin' or not, but it ain't 'normal' behavior. Having said that, I don't give a shit what bundle of stickss do in the privacy of their own homes...

That is a good filter for F.ags...
ROFL

That’s all right. You’ve even admitted to be’n partially ghey, lesbian stuck in a mans body, right? ;)

OK, I just back from making a triple batch of popcorn, what did I miss ?

She is just eyeing up some sweet little 18 year old with a killer rack, fat box and nice chops out there in her congegation asking herself how she can pull this off without losing her job. :dom:

ROFL

You got it. :thumb:

I am just bored with it all and tired of hearing about it. The gay movement continues to advance and they they get more rights all the time. They should have equal rights in the eyes of the state IMO. However, various religions and the schools should not be forced to promote their agenda. That's when their rights cross the line and infringe on other people's rights. Like I said before they won't be happy until pole smoking and carpet munching are classes taught to same age 5 year olds in school.

There are no gays that want sexual practices taught in school. :rolleyes:

In other words, one of the other bosses is gonna have her whacked.

Because no one can be accepting of gays without being gay themselves :rolleyes: . It's nice to see that you are more tolerant of an artificial category of dog than your fellow human beings :thumb:

And the Bible was written by a bunch of semi-literate Hebrew tribesmen who would be considered schizophrenic by the standards of the DSM-IV.

I guess that as a woman, it also doesn't bother you that women make 75 cents on the dollar for what a man makes in the same occupation. Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face :shake:

She also believes there should be a ban on certain breeds of dogs. :)

You're a ****ing moron. My girl is bisexual and I am all for them having the same rights. How much more on board can I get without actually promoting the lifestyle for a legal standpoint. It's just ****ing sex people need to relax.

Please explaing to me what an artificial category of dog means? That makes not sense.

To tell you the truth I am getting sick and tired of people speaking for god all the time too.

That's why we have celebrate diversity week. That's why we had the thread about the school backing the teacher telling stories of the prince and the prince to 5 year olds. Lifestyle promotion to little kids now who shouldn't have to deal with this shit, sexual practices tomorrow.

I must be on the right side of this subject I got goat cheese, Hamas and Phoney Gonzales all on the other side. IMO that's gods way of telling me I am doing something VERY right.

Episcopal. This is nothing new. If there is a more liberal denomination out there I couldn't name it. The tide of opinion isn't turning in the mainstream.

Soon the line between adult-child relations will be broken down. Wait and see.

Because this post just reeks of tolerance for gays:
The warrant behind your claim is that this Episco woman's viewpoint is obviously fallacious b/c for her to espouse pro-gay viewpoints must automatically mean that she wants to do someone in her congregation.

An artifical category of dog was used for emphasis--you spend more time advocating for a breed created through artificial selection and seem to care more for it than you do the rights of your fellow citizens. It seems to me like your priorities are a little fucked up.

Yeah i heard about Colorado changing the law that allows children to be married at age 15 without parental consent a couple days ago. I'll try and dig up the story. Can anyone who lives there help me out with this?

This 'forcing' isn't coming from without.
Right or wrong, she is the elected head of the Church.

Excellent post; that seems to agree with much of what I've been taught.

Steadily declining membership in the Episcopal Church over the past 3 decades or so, says she's the head of a church in decline. A trend that accelerated three years ago. It is also a part of the Anglican Church which is on the verge of being expelled from the worldwide body...

Not so fast, Lenin. :harumph:

One of the main reasons women make less is because they choose professions that pay less but provide more flexibility in time and committment, take periods of time out of their careers and/or do not want the responsibility that such positions brings due to conflicts with other personal choices etc. It's a matter of having a different set of priorities, needs and wants. Why is it that homosexuals choices are considered innate, even genetic, but not a woman's choices? Little inconsistent aren't we?

Subject of a different thread.

No you're ****ed up. I don't care if she wants the hot 18 year old girl in her congregation, hell I would probably want her too. I have already said I am a lesbian trapped in a mans body. How much more tolerant do you want me to be? I am very tolerant of the lifestyle I am just not for forcefeeding it to everyone on the planet especially young children.

As far as the dogs go WTF are you talking about artificially selected? What does that mean? Last time I checked we weren't rounding up the homo's and executing them. We are talking about their right to force feed everyone their lifestyle. My lifestyle would be considered alternative I have no problem with people doing whatever they want until they infringe on the rights of others. That's what we are really talking about here. You have become sooooooo PC you don't even try to see what is really going on you just want to pull the homo victim card. Why is it their right to infiltrate any religion they want? Why is it their right to promote their lifestyle in our school to young children who shouldn't even be thinking about this shit?

Sin? I'm not in a position to comment. I'll leave that to a Higher Authority.

Disgusting and all kinds of wrong? You betcha!

It's infiltration. It's the church's problem at this point nobody else's. This infiltration thing is nothing new. This is a big gay year. From school textbooks to the Soprano's to gay cowboys and the church. Once again I am all for people doing whatever they want but at some point I get sick of it. We hit the saturation point long ago IMO. Hell the gays are beginning to have more rights than the average Joe like in hate crimes for example.

good point.

Really a steady decline, I’m sure you have all kinds of data to back up these statements.

All I can say is that both parishes that I have been involved in (one in St. Louis, the other here in KC), over the last twenty years have been growing leaps and bounds.

Our biggest influx is from ex-Catholics and Methodist, who prefer a formal service but don’t care for a priest telling them how they should view there own personal beliefs (a thinking persons Catholicism if you will).

It should be noted that in the Episcopal Church the Bishops do not deal with set doctrine, there purpose is to set the mechanics in place doctrine, for the most part is left up to the individual to develop and interpret on a personal level.

Quit frankly we (I’m speaking of the parish I attend), are more concerned with the state of poverty and hunger in the world than what consenting adults do in the confines of there personal relationships (and that includes all the sexual persuasions including heterosexual).

Well stated ma man, well stated! :clap:

good post

My pit bull is homosexual.

Just because you like doing it with your dog doesn't make him gay.

Don't be gay, Sparky. Don't be gay.

http://static.zoovy.com/img/givemeto...arky_plush.jpg

Precisely. It blows my mind by how some people pick and choose what they want from the New Testament to make it a religion of intolerance rather than compassion, which is what Jesus was all about. Jesus spent the majority of his time talking about poverty and the corruption that wealth causes, yet in America, we worship money and don't find that to be a problem. Pat Robertson owns diamond mines in Africa!
The Bible was written by a group of people who were trying to survive in a time when they were outnumbered. Thus, homosexuality wouldn't fly because then they couldn't reproduce enough. The first commandment of the Old Testament is to be fruitful and multiply. From the people who wrote the Old Testament came the Christians, who continued some of the Jewish teachings and disregarded others. Now that we have 6 billion people on this planet and a good many of them are Christian, I think we can disregard this homosexuality ban as well. Christians don't seem to mind disregarding bans on wearing wool and cotton at the same time, and other similar commandments. Why care so much about this one? Christianity ought to be a religion of compassion and caring for others, even if they are "sinners."

never trust a woman that needs the last name of two men.

;)

I'm sure that women also "choose" to make up 2/3 of the people in the world living below the poverty line....that flexibility is oh so important when you can't feed your family. Try doing some research into the glass ceiling before you run your mouth about shit you have no idea you are talking about.

Give me a fucking break.

To answer your question, it is because gender is considered by most respected intellectuals to be a social construction. In the introduction to the Second Sex, Simone Beauvoir said "One is not born, but is made a woman." If you honestly think that duties such as child-rearing, knitting, and cooking are innate, then you are sorely mistaken. It's a matter of cultural training.

You aren't for teaching children tolerance instead of the culturally ingrained intolerance of gay people :spock:

Artificial selection: a process that runs counter to natural selection, namely when humans interfere in normal genetic reproduction of animals in order to get desired traits out of them. It's a value neutral term, but it's a pretty damned far jump for someone to argue so stridently for a grouping of animals (Pit Bulls, which have an incredibly malleable definition) and yet be so lax when it comes to teaching people the merits of diversity and inclusion. Hypocrisy anyone??

That's not what I was talking about Uncle Joe.

By whom?

Ah yes by another self-appointed expert.

Please don't tell me what the female experience is. I am one. I am both a mother and a professional, even if these days that's more part-time.

I've read numerous studies backing up what I just said on choices. One most recent. I was also a feminist in college and abandoned much of it once out of college. It just doesn't work as claimed. I have had my own business once and made more money than some men for a period of time. I coulda' continued but didn't, at least not at that level, for the reasons the same studies say about women's choices. I am happy with those decisions even if I have suffered on the pay scales. ( I can make more again if I wanted to) But I could NEVER put a PRICE on seeing my child grow up. Time is more valuable to me as it is to many other women. The trend has been for women to return home if they have children. I've been on both sides as a dependent and independent. But your reasons for women being poorer are nonsense. They are just commonly and uncritically accepted by Marxists.

Yeah, I also never said that. The sarcasm was over your head. Read it again.

One thing is undeniable: a women's natural biology is totally set up for producing offspring. That's exactly what our bodies are made for. This includes the rush of hormones after birth that make a woman inclined to nuture. It was really modern technology that is responsible for the major portion of a woman's freeing as it gave her more time, even the ability to control her reproduction so that she could break out of traditional roles if she so chose.

Unfortunately, being a communist and all, you subscribe to Marx's version of female liberation: to free her from her social and biological because his belief was that the bourgeois family needed to go. Unfortunately, that family is society's smallest governing unit. When it goes, so does the society. But that's where the Marxists step in with state sponsored day-care and full-service schools.

I say in some ways we've paid a high price for the cultural Marxist version.

You shall not commit adultery. It basically covers any sexual relation outside of the marriage bond. Gee, I wonder why those Christians are so up in arms about teh ghey getting married. :shrug:

Now if only I can use moral relativism on whom I can steal from. Wait, them evil Oil companies are a good target.

The "conservative" U.S. Supreme court ruled Sodomy constitutional.

I make more than anyone on my shift at work. I really don't see what that has to do with this discussion. Is your future wife gonna be the head of your household? Call me old-fashioned, but I was not in on the woman's lib movement.

It's infiltrated itself into the media. schools and now becoming culture...the effects are everywhere.

1. First of all I am not for teaching children young children any sexual crap. That should be MY RIGHT as a parent.

2. I think you are mixing up teaching tolerance and acceptance. I tolerate you Hamas but I absolutely DO NOT accept and will not promote your far left agenda. It's perfectly alright to not accept and dislike certain people or lifestyles. I do not expect everyone to like mine. I find it perfectly acceptable that many may hate me for mine. The difference is they will have to tolerate my lifestyle and I am able to live the life I choose. IT would not be OK for me to promote my lifestyle with their children. It would not be alright for me and people like me to try and infiltrate the church and force feed the acceptance of our lifestyle amoungst those who do not wish to be exposed to it. That were the infringing on the rights of other people begins. In school they are not teaching tolerance they promoting acceptance and the lifestyle. As a parent I should have the right to not have my young children exposed to this. That is where their right to promote the lifestyle infinges on my right as a parent. You should not have the ability to trample on parents rights no matter how riteous you think you are.

As far as the dogs go all domestic animals breeding was selected by people. That doesn't make the selection artificial Mr. PETA member. The more I talk to you the more wacked you come across every time.

I am gone for the day in 10 minutes so don't think for a second I my lack of a response to your next post means anything.

She was raised Roman Catholic, converted, and eventually was elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church by its congregants.
I don't think you understand the term 'infiltrate.'

Another thing Hamas Jenkins;

Have you ever heard of a thing called division of labor?

It's very efficient. That is really all a traditional family set up is.

I have a gf who told me recently that when she doesn't work and takes care of the house and her two kids that her husband's ( who has his own business ) income actually goes up. Interesting eh? Division of labor, same concept, that a successful business, even a successful economy is based on. But no, to collectivists we're all alike and should all be same, doing the same thing with no individual talents or abilities...one big androgenous society wearing socialist scrubs! How boring!

Well, your parishes are the exception then...

http://www.demographia.com/db-religlarge.htm

33% drop in actual membership, 58% drop in per capita membership since 1960 would qualify as a pretty precipitous drop in the minds of most people.....I would think.

I will talk trash with the best of them. However, if I cite a stat or research, generally, I'm not talking out of my ass; and I've usually done my homework. I realize stats can be twisted, but this one's pretty clear...

As for your personal experience, fine. The Episcopal Church, and some other liberal churches seem to be pursuing this "niche" if you will.....perhaps as a strategy to attract new members for the first time in decades, or to stop the bleeding so-to-speak. And it may be working.....however, it goes against the trends.....

If you look at that same page, see which churches are losing members.....and, generally, they are the more liberal churches, with a couple of exceptions. The conservative churches? Most have been growing....several of them, substantially. But I'll let you look at the stats yourself, since you seem dubious.....

http://www.demographia.com/db-religlarge.htm

So someone can't have and agenda IYO and still be elected and bring it our later? Interesting.

For the record I think calling any sex between consenting adults is ridiculous. That's my right. It is also my opinion that taking what I think is right and infiltrating a church I know does not carry my same belief and getting myself elected into a high position so I can pull that out and divide the church is wrong. Then again that's JMHO.

"when everyone is special, nobody is..'

The Incredibles.

There is a huge difference between Pit Bulls and Human Beings. If you want to debase yourself and lower your existence to the level of a braying ass, go ahead, be yourself.

Its a great opinion. It is why even though I disagree with some of your lifestyle choices, I still respect you greatly as a human being.

Comparing slaughtering to promotion of a lifestyle is beyond ridiculous as well but it's what we have come to expect from Hamas.

That is preposterous, a sheer emanation of Reagan-era culture wars and the facade of family-values. Well, riddle me this then, why have many other societies flourished for centuries with social units that in no way resembled the artifice of the American nuclear family?? Could it be that the nuclear famility as a panacea is a complete myth?? Ding, ding ding!!

I love that you automatically assume that I'm a Marxist feminist, a la Catherine MacKinnon, but you could not be further from the truth. Of course you still assume I'm a communist because I said "anarcho-socialist" which is about the same assumption as calling patteau and Donger "liberal" since they both participate in the traditional conservative wing of Western Liberal Humanism.

Of course you mention nothing of the cultural impetus behind woman being the rearer of children...well if this belief is in fact so immutable, why do female lionness do the majority of the hunting while males nurture the offspring?? You are speaking in absolutes where absolutes do not exist. The feminine and what is considered "women" do not exist, they are cultural constructions that seek to lump females into a single underclass by which their continued discrimination can be engaged in more willingly

Furthermore, this expert which you choose to so ignornantly shuck aside, also stated that women are also responsible in part for their roles in society as they accept and encourage their own marginalization. You are a direct affirmation of that very belief.

No shit, dumbass. The mere point of that post sailed way over your head. I find it funny that he can debase the push for equality among people as so reprehensible (as this push desires to do) and yet finds it so damnable for dogs to be considered for specific legislation when they might be considered dangerous. It's a logical inconsistency that I was pointing out. :thumb:

It doesn't bother me at all. Ever ask yourself why women only make 75 cents on the dollar? Why wouldn't a profit-maximizing firm hire all women? There's an obvious reason women earn less than men, and it has nothing to do with disrimination.

For low-skilled jobs with no training required, women make as much as men. For high-skilled jobs that require long-term on-the-job training, women make much less than men. Why? Because women are much more likely to temporalily or permanently leave the job market, in which case the firm is ****ed for having invested in the employee who will not be around very long.

Oh yeah?? Well what about the LION-esses, Marthafocker???!!!!

Of course a woman must always also perform the household chores in order for this to work. It's funny that you are the one running your mouth about people being all the same when you are the one advocating that women stick to the same tired professions that they have held for centuries. Well, thanks, but no thanks Phyllis Schafly. Believe it or not, a man can do the household work, and a woman can be a primary breadwinner, but a great deal of men (who still hold the overwhelming amount of political power in this country) still feel threatened by the possibility of a woman in position of power, so why not just collectivize them into mindless "bitches" who are always pregnant and barefoot making dinner for their husbands. :shake:

Because god knows, men can't be the ones at home rearing the children, now can they??

Jason Seaver, bitches!!!