Did Roaf retire because he did not want to be associated with a conservative offense?
 

I got to thinking about it and he went out on a high note. Protecting his reputation, something that might have suffered under Solari and Herm?:hmmm:

Roaf retired because he had a busted wheel. Our offense really isn't that conservative. We were plenty agressive against the Chargers and it didn't make a difference. We don't have the talent on the offensive line to be a high-flying offense.

That's exactly why he retired. Roaf did consider the possibility that a strong offensive line, LJ behind it, and Herm bringing the defense along would be a promising combo, but ultimately he felt that he didn't want to win if winning meant being conservative.

:rolleyes:

Run, Run Pass,

Run, Run Pass

is not what I call agressive. I will admit the defense was more agressive. This season worked out exactly as I predicted. Mid level defense and an offense that was going to fall, way, way off.

I think Roaf retired partly because of that Car Wreck he had back late spring last year. I was driving to work and saw his Hummer crunch this truck pretty badly. It hasnt been publicly stated, but that could have been part of his unhealing.

??

He probably thought the Chiefs had no shot at a superbowl. So he hung it up.

That hasn't been our gameplan all year, either. People only remember the horribly called games for some reason.

As it was so eloquently put in the movie Major League:

"Who gives a shit, it's (he's) gone...."

This thread is completely worthless.

Lets not discuss Willie Roaf anymore **** it he's gone he's not coming back.

Not for nothing..but I'm going to chime in..

I watched alot of the Chiefs games this year..and have read the board..and heard alot of people blaming the offensive line..

It's the coaches responsibility to maximize his own teams strengths,and take advantage of the oppositions weaknesses..if the o-line is that horrible,wouldn't it make sense to be unpredictable,and keep the defense off balance??
Watching that game last night,I thought I was watching the 2001-2005 Jet offense..and Herm is lucky he hasn't gotten Trent Green killed yet..

Green is constantly being put in obvious passing situations all the time..which makes the margin for error very small..it's Hermanolgy..

Dumbest thread you've ever created, Logical.

Now that is saying something.;)

Maybe he was tired and his bones ached?

Where do you get this shit?

yes it is. Your genius reputation for starting wonderful threads is now in jeopardy.

Do you have any vestige of brain cells left at all?

I have a feeling something very similar to this, is the case. When Herm was saying early on, the Offense needs to help the Defense more, I think Willie just said that is enough.

No Offense Jim, but this makes as much sense as the reeruned "we still have a really good shot at the playoffs" thread. The dude could hardly walk. If anything, Herm would have helped his chances of staying because he's known to take it easy in practice and training camp on veterans. Remember Whitlock's 'club Herm' article and the talk about how much easier this camp was than Vermeil's?

Oh, you mean the games where the Chiefs score only ONE touchdown, or NO TOUCHDOWNS AT ALL, right?

Geez. Why would we remember those games, and the horrific gameplanning that spawned them I wonder?


Could it be that those games are the very reason that the Chiefs wont be making the playoffs for yet another year? I mean, lack of talent on the field is one thing, but having an inept coordinator compounds the problem severely. If you cant score touchdowns, you dont win. Under Solari/Edwards, the same bunch of guys that used to rack up 4-5 TDs a game now can barely muster up one in some games.

We can sure attempt a lot of FGs though!!



VS Cincinnatti - 1 TD

@ Denver- 0 TD

@ Pittsburgh- 1 TD

@ Miami- 1 TD

VS Baltimore- 1 TD

@ San Diego- 0 TD


Hell man, the only team we lost to and actually scored Touchdowns was against the Browns, a game that can actually be attributed to the defense.


Look at those numbers. FOUR Touchdowns in those 6 losses. That was a 1 game average under Saunders/Vermiel.


Its time for Herm to wake the F up, realize this is not the 1950's and realize you have to throw the football as well as run to win. Its also time for Solari to pack his shit.

I'm giving Willie the benefit of the doubt, all reports said that watching him walk even gave the witnesses joint pain.

His knees prolly sounded like popping bubble wrap when he locomoted.

I think his health and desire to spend time with his family was the primary reason he hung it up. He's also a smart veteran that knew a change in coaching and philosophy was in store and the team would probably take a step back.

I've thought our offense has looked like the Jets of the early 2000's all year....next thing you know, we will be using a high draft pick on a place kicker........good God......help us.

No his legs/hip etc.couldn't go another season.

Plus Mama's gumbo was calling.

What I dont get is all the bashing of the OC? Herm is the fucking Coach and has been doing this pathetic Shit for years in NYJ.. Solari is his first year.

Everyone here keeps saying give herm a chance, a chance for what? To be a total fuckup like in NY?

If you give Herm (a repeat offender a chance) you have to Give solari more than one year as well....

That really crystallizes it.

Add in the one TD we scored vs. Denver in KC. That's a win, but it also means that we've scored one or none TDs in SEVEN games this year -- that's HALF our schedule so far. Think about that: We've scored one or zero TDs in HALF our games so far.

Roaf retired because, as he was packing for training camp, his wife was hitting Joe Horn's number on speed dial.

The offense at the end of last year was MORE conservative than this one.

Execution is the difference, and Willie Roaf is a big part of the reason we're not executing.

The same bunch of guys...other than Willie Roaf, Tony Richardson, John Welbourn for half the year, and Kevin Sampson.

Yeah, it's the same bunch of guys all right.

Don't forget missing Waters for a few.

Everyone thinks you can just replace a HOF'er with a bag of shit, and the bag of shit will play at an all-pro level.

It also doesn't help that due to injury/inconsistency, the tackles were moved around on a week to week basis. Shields and Waters were playing next to someone different quite a bit. As did Weigmann while Waters was out.

Continuity is one of the most important aspects of OL play, IMO.

But y'all go ahead. It was Herm's fault.......

I thought it was Solari's fault? Man I am confused. This board takes more twists than a bag of pretzels..

Yeah, and neither of us mentioned that TRENT GREEN MISSED EIGHT GAMES.

But it's the same bunch of guys.

Herm = Solari

ROFL ROFL - Mario Andretti is a sucky driver. I saw him driving a Yugo the other day and he wasn't fast at all!!!

So the Chiefs garaged the Farreri and brought out Herm's type of sports car? The Yugo?

Safe, dependable and will always be there to kick field goals?

When will the Vermeil lovefest end? The Chiefs accomplished zero, nadda, zilch in his time here. They were the softest team I have ever seen wearing the Red and Gold.

I think you're missing the analogy. The Ferraris were T-Rich and Roaf, and Black/Cruz et al, are the Yugos, not the respective offensive schemes.

Other than THIS one, you mean.

The Vermiel lovers are starting to remind me of the teenage girl with a crush on the bad boy you know is gonna end up making a career of the McD's fry station.

He's a loser.

But I LOVE HIM!!!

And the Marty lovers remind me of the guy who proposes to his girl even though he knows she's gonna **** the best man before the wedding.

:D

I don't know why some people pick sides. I don't understand why we can't all agree that the franchise simply hasn't gotten it done. No matter what's been tried, we've barely sniffed a Super Bowl (one AFC title game appearance since the merger). Who cares if we "were entertaining" while failing? I don't understand why some prefer one kind of failure to another. It's all failure to me.

I see what you're saying, but I understand where they're coming from.

In the end, it's entertainment. Some people are entertained by big hits, some by long TD passes. It's called flavah...

A few weeks have gone by without anyone paying Logical any attention.

Cue thread with stupid premise about an inflammatory subject.

Sad.

Be fair,
I say I enjoyed what he did here.
I say I'm enjoying what he's doing in San Diego.
I DON'T SAY I wish he'd never left, or that he'd come back and save us.

I guess that's where some of us differ from others.

Big hits and long TD passes are nice and all, but W's are all I care about.

It's not entertaining to me to see the offense score 34 and the defense give up 35.......

The Vermeil lovers are basically the same person as the Marty lovers.

Personally, I'm thankful for the football teams that both Marty and Vermeil gave us. A half decade of a dominating defense was incredibly enjoyable to watch. A half decade of a dominating offense was enjoyable to watch.

The people that act like all that was an assault on their fanhood need to take a long hard look at some of the bottom-feeders of the NFL and ask themselves if what we've had is really all that bad.

If you enjoyed what Marty did here, how can you make fun of the Vermeil lovers for enjoying what he did here?

Losing is losing.

Tell me again how many Super Bowls that Marty teams have played in? Who is the loser?

So, if I enjoyed the Die Hard Series, I can't make fun of someone who enjoys those movies put out by the Olsen Twins? Neither series got any Oscars. :p

Great post and well said. We may have a new yardstick for measuring bad, it appears.

While the analogy is amusing, it's hardly relevant. Just because you find one method "manly" and the other "feminine" doesn't make it true.

Personally, I don't view Cro-Magnon man to be particularly masculine - his physical prowess is overshadowed by an inferior intellect. :D

This team sucks, has no heart, plays dumb the majority of the time, but I don't know that they're soft.

At the very least, they're not nearly as soft as those Vermeil teams.

This team, and inparticular this defense, can punish people.

We've been over this, it's not so much masculine/feminine [though the 32 _efense was the swishiest, skirt-wearingest display ever], as it's hunter or prey. When you watch the Discovery channel, do you root for the Lion or the Antelope?

Maybe. It's year one, and Vermeil didn't exactly light the world on fire his first year here either.

For all the bitching about the shortcomings of Carl Peterson, for the most part teams in his tenure have given me a reason to believe we had a chance every Sunday morning when I roll out of bed.

I'm tired of acting like the Chiefs have been a monumental failure over the last 20 years. The truth is that more often than not, they have given me and every other Chiefs fan reason to be happy at the end of the day.

I swear I think a lot of the attitude these days is just based off our inability to talk smack on the internet. Today at least, I just don't care about that stupid shit. We've had two pretty cool eras of Chiefs football, and I'm hoping another one is on the way.

Really? When can they start?

Who is the lion and who is the antelope? I fail to see how Marty's teams were any more "predator" than Vermeil's. BOTH teams were aggressive, just on different sides of the ball.

Ultimately, I'd say Vermeil's team was the lion. Marty's team was a water buffalo.

Stop it. Mock obtuseness is not becoming.

We're going to the Super Bowl next year.

STFU, asshole.

Actually that's why I thought DV left. He built an O that put up gaudy numbers and allowed him to stroke his ego. He could see the impending downside and got out.

As for Roaf, I'll take him at his word; the wear and tear was just too much on his body. He wants to be able to walk to the podium when he goes into the HoF and who can blame him.

That is an interesting theory.

It's only unbecoming because I'm mocking YOUR obtuseness. :D

In a perfect world, we would have hired Herm as defensive coordinator, along with all the other new coaches, with the offensive staff staying intact.

Money and ego prevents dream scenarios like that from happening.

I'm really starting to wonder if you're GoChiefs' father. Both of you can act normal for long stretches, but then you apparently feel the need for heaping helpings of both attention and abuse, and post some stupid bullshit like this.

GoLogical? :shake:

Really? 'You're a dum-dum' is your retort?
OK, spelling it out in case there are others who aren't getting the analogy.

I use Lions and Antelopes, not because the character of the team as a whole, but in comparing the aims of the Offense and the Defense.

The offense are the Antelopes, avoiding contact with the Lions as best they can to thrive and find their way to open blue skies. The make use of their speed and agility to avoid those who would destroy them. And sure there's artistry in that. Like has been said, 'ballet in a minefield.'

The defense are the Lions, seeking contact and the imposition of pain. They make use of their own speed and power to meet the Antelope with force and take him down. They're the minefield the Antelope traverses.

Some people look at the exchange and say "wow, look how expert that antelope is in evading capture. That's a true expression of the will to live."

Some people look at the exchange and say "wow, that Lion jacked that Antelope's world up!! Blood makes the grass grow."

I'm the latter.

The problem with your Lions and Antelopes is that it's a loaded analogy. Our culture (especially on a football board) prizes the Lion more than the Antelope. It would be like me saying:

Some people see the speed and grace of a shark (offense) and they love that. Other people see the bulk and power of a walrus (defense), and they love that.

When you're talking about a contact sport involving aggression, you've assigned the more appropriate (for that sport) symbol to the side in which you believe. Thus, your analogy sucks. :p

The analogy really sucks because 90 percent of the time, the predator goes hungry.

I for one am sure glad Herm fixed our offense.

OK, list the Lion-esque things the offense does.
I think it's pretty darned apt.
It parallells the divergent interests of the two sides of the ball.
Even visually, look on the Discovery channel and tell me that a lion taking down an antelope doesn't look like a linebacker taking down a running back.
And your last paragraph is precisely the reason I make the analogy. It might not be fair that what the defense does more appropriately exemplifies the dominant spirit of the game, but it is the fact of the matter. Wanna change it? Watch basketball, or change the rules to 'touch' FB.
And to be fair, I did acknowledge the positive attributes of the 'Antelope's' aims and ambitions.
And if it's my 'Antelopes' on the field, I'm rooting for them to thrive and cold smoke those dickweed Lions.

The lions that do the hunting part are girl lions, dude.

FAX

70.

WPI would kill for a thread like this...[/skip]

ROFL

I'm just messing with you dude.

Seriously, you're equating the lion with BLOODLETTING. Of course, you're going to associate that with defense.

I equate the lion with the aggressor. Our offense, under Vermeil, was MOST CERTAINLY an aggressor. They definitely weren't the antelope, looking to avoid capture. The St. Louis offense may have been such, but ours wasn't.

Lions ? Who wants to be like Detroit ?

Where are the Antelopes from ? Is that a CFL team ?


FTR, IMHO, Roaf retired because of his health. Yes it was a hard hit to our OL and it continued to crumble because of injuries.

Exactly, Mr. htismaqe. We were more like the Triceratops.

FAX

I tend to think of armadillos. Marty reminds me of an armadillo too.

Which is all the more reason that Carl should go. Herm is Carls boy.

I'm pretty sure our defense is an opossum. They've been playing dead for almost 10 years now.

No, I mean in years past, Mr. htismaqe. We were Triceratops then. Now, we're like armadillos. We can't cross the highway without getting a good smushing.

The highway being a conceptual metaphor for the goal line, of course.

FAX

Triceratops under Marty?

Marty was definitely an armadillo. He looked impenetrable until the playoffs, and then he'd curl up in a ball and hope the bad people would just go away...